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Velo-Felo
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Well'ard Rocker
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Originally Posted by Ignoramus
Sorry to be the one to tell you , but out the bearing comes again

there are 2 oil flinger washers .one on each side of the bearing 65-3509...the sprocket side of bearing ,it is dished so it rotates with the bearing inside the cover recess and is firmly captured by the end of the sprocket against the id of the bearing ....u will figure it when u see one

the other is 24-1225 gearbox oil retaining washer .......this goes on the inside of the bearing facing the main shaft etc it is also dished so it can rotate ....if you dont have these in place you will have like 2 mm endfloat on main shaft and that will bugger the selector ability

ok those numbers are off a latter box than yours with an oil seal but i dont thing BSA changed the layout or washer sizes

sorry but you did ask

yours has that "treaded.grooved" oil pusher back thing you had problems getting off but im pretty sure it also has the 2 flinger washers ...yep its a bran teaser

All right, boss, I followed orders, heated the case back up, and drove the bearing back out and now I can't figure out why I did that.

The bearing measures perfectly symmetrical, i.e. it doesn't matter which way it goes in. Plus, when I first took it apart, there was nothing between the bearing and the case; the bearing drives all the way into its seat in the case and there's nothing else.

Here are the only two washers/spacers that were near the bearing:

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

So are these the "oil flinger washers"? Which one goes on which side, and do they both seat directly against the ID of the bearing?

Boy howdy, I really need an exploded diagram that shows these things .... maybe the M20 site has one? Hate to keep bugging you one washer and one part at a time - there's hundreds of them!! Thanks!

Lannis


"Why do you wear that thing, Dobby?" "This, sir? 'Tis a mark of the house-elf’s enslavement, sir."
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Lannis, have you looked at all the gearbox stuff here?
Andy
http://www.wdbsa.nl/technical_section.htm


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Lannis its no "bugging" at all i enjoy helping someone if i can with one of very few things i know a bit about!

Remember i am only going by the oil seal version of that box , but think your non oil seal version would also be the same lay out

the washer closest to the bearing is a flinger by the look of it however it is the one that goes OUTSIDE the bearing going by its diameter so you are missing the INNER ONE ,check this by the diameter of the flinger you have being just slight clearance on the step down part of the case sprocket side of the bearing !

the washer with the tangs is the one that locks the sprocket retaining collar ...a tang gets bent into a slot in the collar

it wasn't a waste of time drifting the brg back out im 95% sure you are missing a flinger on the inside side of the bearing ,and if the one you have in you pic was on the inside it had been misplaced .... its been a while since i did one of these boxes but im pretty sure the flingers are different diameters hence the different part numbers i gave you above somewhere BUT practice make perfect right

yeah you do need a GA drawing ... someone must have a digital one here they can post for you ... maybee make a new thread asking but keep this tread live so we can continue walking through the job . specially when you get to the actual box you want to fix


"There's the way it ought to be and there's the way it is" (Sgt Barnes)
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Well'ard Rocker
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OK, so I'm starting to understand ... there was no washer between the bearing and the case where the bearing seats, Neale Gentner's writeup (from the M20 site, thanks Andy!) on the gearbox says that that washer "is often missing" from the gearbox, and mine was. (I think you showed 24-1225 for that part, he shows 24-4225?)

Since this is going to be a "practice" and "parts" gearbox, I think that I will "turn down" the OD of the bearing so it's an easy slip fit into the case, make a washer to take up the space that the proper one should have, and go ahead with assembly - before anyone would use this gearbox, the bearing needs to be replaced anyway, so I will use it for practice assembly and leave a tag on the outside when I'm done as to what needs replacing to put it on the road.

Back in a bit!

Lannis


"Why do you wear that thing, Dobby?" "This, sir? 'Tis a mark of the house-elf’s enslavement, sir."
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https://draganfly.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/content/BM_gearbox.gif

shows the GA but remember its an oil seal version of what you are working on

NOTE teh placement of parts 10 and 101 .....gave you the part numbers of those earlier

PS
personally i wouldn't go wrecking a good bearing just to save a few minutes taking it in and out a couple of times and potentially laying a mine field for any unfortunate who ends up with the box ... tags can come off ya know ,,,just saying


"There's the way it ought to be and there's the way it is" (Sgt Barnes)
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Well'ard Rocker
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Originally Posted by Ignoramus
https://draganfly.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/content/BM_gearbox.gif

shows the GA but remember its an oil seal version of what you are working on

NOTE teh placement of parts 10 and 101 .....gave you the part numbers of those earlier

PS
personally i wouldn't go wrecking a good bearing just to save a few minutes taking it in and out a couple of times and potentially laying a mine field for any unfortunate who ends up with the box ... tags can come off ya know ,,,just saying

I don't think it is a good bearing ... it was seized up solid when I took it out, soaked it in penetrant and then oil, then slipped it onto an expanding collet, tightened it up, and used a strap wrench on the outside and it finally broke loose - a lot more cleaning and it FEELS good in the hand when you turn it, but I wouldn't use it on any bike of mine ...

Lannis


"Why do you wear that thing, Dobby?" "This, sir? 'Tis a mark of the house-elf’s enslavement, sir."
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Well your call but you can get very good Jap Nachi bearings that size ....i payed only around $40 NZ dollars for those so what ? $25-30 US to not compromise an otherwise good box ...sounds like a no brainer to me

just out of interest those boxes sell for good money if they are working and complete , i have just sold one for $800 NZ ,( $500US?) the guy didnt even blink! , admittedly that was a rebuild box though


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Please lannis put thtabeaing back in by all means
Wait for the hottest day of the year then take a test ride through Death Valley and don't take any water with you because riding an air cooled engine you won't need water.


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Howley Offline OP
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OK, I'm back. Thanks Lannis for picking up the baton.

I got the 'box out and this is what I've got. The apex you were talking about Ignoramus (to my untrained eye) doesn't look that bad.
Apex picture

When it's working (which let's be honest is most of the time it's on the bench), it sits here, although it seems to often get stuck like this on the way up and like this on the way down.

Additionally there's no perceptible end float of the selector in first, a tiny bit in second (under a mm) but about 3mm in 3rd.

Any ideas or observations?

Cheers!

Luke

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just from pics cam looks ok ........

I would try disconnecting the radius arm that links the "saw tooth selector mechanism" to the "tang" on the end of the quadrant gear that you cant see inside the inner cover ....

it will be trial and error but adjusting the length either more or less will cause greater or lesser travel in the selector forks (in one direction) which control the movement of the actual pawl that engages with the gear you are trying to select

have a play with that and report back ......it IS trial and error ok ....try to note how many turns you add or subtract from the length from what it is now ...there will likely be a "sweet spot" where you get all the gears Make sure you dont loose the ability to select neutral in your zeal to concentrate o the offending gear ...it must obviously select all gears including neutral ... ideally in neutral there should be the same gap between !st and 2nd pinions and pawl ie clearance between each side of the pawl/gears im on about ...but hey as long as all the gears select and neutral is at least there you might be good to go ...we will see ..its a balancing act at this stage


. dont get hung up on the end float t issue just yet ...but do report on how much end float you have in the mAIN shaft ...excessive end float on the main shaft makes adjusting theses boxes a pig and sure wont help your clutch travel

one thing at a time bro


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Howley Offline OP
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Thanks mate, that was my thinking too, in my mind I should have to make that link longer.

Main shaft end float is good, it was carefully shimmed with a clock and is 'barely perceptible' as per specification.

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Originally Posted by Howley
Thanks mate, that was my thinking too, in my mind I should have to make that link longer.

Main shaft end float is good, it was carefully shimmed with a clock and is 'barely perceptible' as per specification.

dude its a balancing trial an error thing .......let us know how u get on .... good one with main shaft end float , dont get that right FIRST you are wasting your time


"There's the way it ought to be and there's the way it is" (Sgt Barnes)
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