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Originally Posted by Randy M
See Sept 30 re starter removal. The shop manual only mentions the 3 "screws" Dave Madigan told me where to find the one behind the solenoid, after removing that it came off with zero resistance. The starter has always worked fine.


Yes, but in your first message you said...
"Big test: Oh, oh, the starter only clicks at the solenoid. (battery still 12 v) Plus, when i kick over the bike there is a strange clicking sound. I removed the plunger and it made it worse, felt resistance while kicking and more noise."
...at which point the starter apparently wasn't working fine so can you confirm the solenoid and starter motor operate normally when you press the starter button but the engine just doesn't start.

Some voltage drop is to be expected when the starter motor operates but if it was starting ok beforehand with the Boyer MkIII box then the MkIV box is supposed to operate at a lower voltage than the MkIII box.

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Sorry LAB, you are right, that was a temp problem due to my buggering things up trying to remove the starter/solenoid. I removed the plunger thinking maybe it was holding things in, once i got the s/s off I put the plunger back in its proper position and that solved the weird noise problem. Starter and solenoid work perfectly now..

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1 BRIEF STEP AHEAD, 2 STEPS BACK
Fixed the starter voltage drop issue via the diode and capacitor (but only briefly) but now I have no more spark! (and the draw is creeping back to 2 v)

Before Installing the diode and cap. I tried to do a test by inserting a small 12v battery from a dirt bike where the cap would go. I grounded the POS to the main battery but the instant I touched the NEG to the connection that connects the dual colored ign wires to the white Boyer wire the dash lights lit up even though the ign was not turned on. I realized this is bec. I had no diode to prevent backward current. I only tried this 3X for an instant . Would this have ruined the Boyer box? Apparently not, see last para.
I did not check for spark then, did not occur to me to see if I still had spark.
So I installed the diode and Cap as per Quinten’s instructions : Diode with NEG from the dual colored original feed wires and POS facing twd the Boyer and then I connected the Cap to the diode with the NEG connected to the diode POS end, and also connected the white Boyer wire there (a T connection into the Cap NEG end wire). The POS end of the cap I presumably grounded but cannot remember doing so and suspect I forgot.
When I then used the e-starter instead of a 2 v drop across the battery I only got 1 v drop so Hooray and I soldered in the connections taking care not to apply heat for more than a few secs at a time and using very thin fast melting solder and using a vice grips as a heat sink. Also for the end of the diode that connects to the stock dual colored ign wire I crimped rather than soldered. I attached the cap. POS ground to the engine (maybe that will got too hot if the engine ever runs, I shld ground it to a cooler spot.) I tried the starter and again only a 1 v drop.
Hooray again until I noticed that my test spark plug taped to the head was no longer sparking. ! step ahead and 1 big step back.
So I cut all the soldered connections and removed the diode and Cap and reconnected to the “status quo ante” and now have my spark again so did not ruin the Boyer.
I then discharged the Cap and tested it and it still says 5000uF so I used a new diode and the same Cap. (properly grounded) with good but not soldered connections and but still no spark; also its now back to taking 1.7 v instead of 1 at the starter.
But I think Dave Madigan answered all this on Oct. 10 when he wrote:
If that diagram of the Boyer wiring is what you have then the diode/capacitor idea will not work. I thought the Boyer timing was powered separately and it switched the coils from the ground side.. Since the Boyer is switching the coils from the powered (B-) side the timing electronics shares the coil power lead.
The capacitor will not store enough energy to drive the coils when the starter draws down the battery voltage.

So it was fun experimenting (the Cap and diodes only cost me $23) and learning more about electronics but seems I am going to have to do like everyone else and spend a small fortune for a Tri-Spark kit when I may be able to afford it.
BUT the big mystery is that two companies that sell e-ignition kits (not just Boyers) say that they have many happy T160 customers using analog Boyers, and my own bike started and ran from 2012 thru 2018 on the old Boyer Mk III until it gradually failed in 2019. One would assume putting in the new Mk IV would have at least put me back to where I was a few years ago, esp. since then I have replaced a few dodgy wires, installed fatter starter cable, cleaned connections, cleaned the starter, new Odyssey US made battery, new spark plugs and ensured the HT leads are compatible with the Boyer, checked coil resistance, new solenoid about 2 years ago, and made sure to my bile follow John Healy’s advice (it already did) that “Alternator wires should never be located near, or run parallel to, the timing plate wires, or battery ground or feed wires. For example: T160 wiring harness carries the alternator wires in the same wiring sub-harness with the wires coming from the timing plate. etc. Well at least I reduced the draw from 2.0 to 1.7 volts.

The only thing I can think of is maybe previous owner had the coils wired differently than the way shown in the diagrams above as I recall switching a couple of wires last year to make them jibe with the Boyer diagrams. Be funny if by wrongly linking the coils he was able to make it run.
PS I ordered one of the original blue capacitors (common on most Brit bikes, optional on T160). Just wondering if installing this either with the current failed mods or w/o them will have any effect? Also wondering if they had a built in diode as otherwise what to prevent current going the wrong way?

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I cannot tell from your description if you wired the diode and capacitor correctly. A diode has an anode and cathode. The capacitor should go between the Boyer white and red wires. No idea why you are checking the voltage across the battery, it is the voltage across the Boyer that is significant.
Is this how you wired the diode and capacitor?
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
Do you have a capacitance meter? How did you check it?
The problem with using the diode and capacitor on this Boyer is the timing circuit power and coil switching power are not separate. Try putting a volt meter across the capacitor terminals then connect a battery across the capacitor terminals to charge it. Remove the battery and the voltage across the capacitor will very slowly drop. Recharge the capacitor with the battery then after the battery is disconnected connect the terminals of a coil across the capacitor. The voltage will drop to zero faster than your meter can react.

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Originally Posted by Randy M
Before Installing the diode and cap. I tried to do a test by inserting a small 12v battery from a dirt bike where the cap would go. I grounded the POS to the main battery but the instant I touched the NEG to the connection that connects the dual colored ign wires to the white Boyer wire the dash lights lit up even though the ign was not turned on. I realized this is bec. I had no diode to prevent backward current. I only tried this 3X for an instant . Would this have ruined the Boyer box? Apparently not, see last para.
I did not check for spark then, did not occur to me to see if I still had spark......

What do you mean by "...dual colored ign wires..."? The only wire connection to Boyer box white should be the kill switch white/yellow.

Originally Posted by Randy M
BUT the big mystery is that two companies that sell e-ignition kits (not just Boyers) say that they have many happy T160 customers using analog Boyers, and my own bike started and ran from 2012 thru 2018 on the old Boyer Mk III until it gradually failed in 2019. One would assume putting in the new Mk IV would have at least put me back to where I was a few years ago

Precisely, so if it started ok for six years with the MkIII box then it should do the same (or better) with the MkIV without the need for a diode or capacitor.

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I am unable to open D Madigan's image. Can someone tell me how I can attach a diagram to this forum so I can show how I hooked up the Diode and Cap? Maybe be moot now as now even after removing them I have no spark at all (even when kicking) and even when I connect the Boyer white wire directly to the battery Neg.
(I know its a good connection because tiny spark when I connect). So I must have blown the Boyer?
PS to L.A.B - By dual colored I meant the white and blue (maybe one is white and yellow) one of which for sure carries power from the kill switch and presumably the other used to go to or from the ballast resister (removed from my system). They are joined together where they connect to the Boyer white. THANKS AGAIN TO ALL WHO ARE OFFERING HELP.

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Quote
PS to L.A.B - By dual colored I meant the white and blue (maybe one is white and yellow) one of which for sure carries power from the kill switch and presumably the other used to go to or from the ballast resister (removed from my system). They are joined together where they connect to the Boyer white

its not clear from your post , it sounds like you may have more than one wire
connected to the Boyer White ?

i would use... only the one ... white/yellow wire from the kill ( with ballast bypassed/removed )
... not a wire from the solenoid relay , to power the Boyer box .
(white/blue wire removed from bike )

at the risk of stating the obvious ,
a white wire in britbike parlance , just means... ignition key switched power ...
but often on it way to "more than one" secondary switch connection .
later britbikes with
"more sophisticated wiring" , will have the key-switched wire color-change
downstream of the kill-switch- cluster .

Boyer cant know all the kill wire colors used over the years for different models/brands , so they stuck with
... a general Lucas color for key switched power ... white

[Linked Image from triplesonline.com]
using advanced reply
copy/paste
http://triplesonline.com/images/factory/75T160_wiring.png
into the [ drop down image box ]
then use preview to preview .

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Originally Posted by Randy M
PS to L.A.B - By dual colored I meant the white and blue (maybe one is white and yellow) one of which for sure carries power from the kill switch and presumably the other used to go to or from the ballast resister (removed from my system). They are joined together where they connect to the Boyer white.

Look at the Boyer circuit diagram I posted previously. White/yellow should be definite not "maybe". There's no white/blue on that diagram. Edit: The only wires connected to the coils should be as shown on the Boyer diagram.

However, with white/blue (WU) also connected to Boyer white then it must only be connected to the relay C4 terminal. If, for instance, WU was also connected to the coils then that would result in the electronic ignition not sparking during starter motor operation. Edit: I reiterate that 'diodes' and 'capacitors' shouldn't be necessary.


Originally Posted by quinten
i would use... only the one ... white/yellow wire from the kill ( with ballast bypassed/removed )
... not a wire from the solenoid , to power the Boyer box .
(white/blue wire removed from bike ).

Boyer cant know all the kill wire colors used over the years for different models/brands , so they stuck with
... a general Lucas color for key switched power ... white

Under normal circumstances (for standard points ignition) the white/blue ballast bypass wire connects to the relay (C4 terminal), not the "solenoid".


Agreed, that white/yellow (from the kill switch) should connect to Boyer white and that would be correct for the T160.

The wire from the ballast resistor to the coils shown on the T160 circuit diagram can be white/yellow (WY) and not white/blue (WU). Edit: However, regardless of the actual colour code it must be disconnected from the coils.

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Originally Posted by Randy M
I am unable to open D Madigan's image.

=

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

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Thanks to all for their patience with my mediocre knowledge of electronics.. .
On my bike there is a White and Blue wire (original looking) wire from the ign and kill switch towards the battery/seat area. At that end (where I connect it to the Boyer white wire) it has another White and Blue wire sprouting off from the connector clip for about 6” to nowhere. Originally that short wire connected to a ballast resister and then a Blue and Yellow wire ran to terminal C-4 of the Relay. The resister and the Blue & Yellow wire were removed by previous owner. Hence there is nothing going to C-4.
BTW my battery is sitting at 14v but the power from the end of the White and Blue wire is only 13.75. Should I worry about the loss of 0.25v thru the system?

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Originally Posted by Randy M
On my bike there is a White and Blue wire (original looking) wire from the ign and kill switch towards the battery/seat area.

There's no white/blue "from the ignition and kill switch" (see T160 diagram).

The ignition switch to kill switch wire is white (W) then white/yellow (WY) from the kill switch to the (now removed) ballast resistor (see T160 diagram).

Only the white/yellow from the kill switch should therefore be connected to the Boyer box white wire (see Boyer diagram).


Originally Posted by Randy M
At that end (where I connect it to the Boyer white wire) it has another White and Blue wire sprouting off from the connector clip for about 6” to nowhere. Originally that short wire connected to a ballast resister and then a Blue and Yellow wire ran to terminal C-4 of the Relay.

The C4 wire should be white/blue (WU).


Originally Posted by Randy M
The resister and the Blue & Yellow wire were removed by previous owner. Hence there is nothing going to C-4.

As mentioned, the C4 wire is normally white/blue (WU).

Blue/yellow (UY if fitted) is an automatic lights on control (item 19, T160 diagram) wire, not an ignition wire.



Originally Posted by Randy M
BTW my battery is sitting at 14v but the power from the end of the White and Blue wire is only 13.75. Should I worry about the loss of 0.25v thru the system?

There shouldn't be any power in the white/blue as it should've been disconnected.

As already mentioned the Boyer box should be powered by white/yellow from the kill switch.

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Thanks again L.A.B. Seems previous owner or the last mechanic to work on it must have changed the wires so the colors are mixed up but its the same feed wire (connected to the Boyer white wire) the bike was running on since 2012 and it has about 14v, zero when the kill switch is activated so that proves it comes from the kill sw., and it sparks the plugs when kicked, Few weeks ago the bike did start and run fine this way (after kicking, would not e-start), the ride was only aborted when throttle cable broke.
The only white or white and yellow wires go to the rectifier and turn signal flasher.
Here is the latest: still no spark when starter engaged – actually with all 3 plugs unscrewed from the head and sitting on it as a ground, each plug sparks once as soon as I hit the starter button and once the instant I lift my finger off but not in between (tried as long as 8 seconds). Voltage drops from 14 to 12.25v across the battery during this time (no compression), and when measured from the white wire to ground from 13.75 to 12 v. One would think that with 12V and no compression the plugs would fire. I wiggled the White and Blue wire and the two pickup wires near their connections but it had no effect. According to Walridge Motors there shld be 1.5 ohms across the two pickup wires near the Boyer so I will measure this tomorrow. Is it possible the problem is with the old magnetic rotor or pickups rather than the (new) transistor box?

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Originally Posted by Randy M
Thanks again L.A.B. Seems previous owner or the last mechanic to work on it must have changed the wires so the colors are mixed up but its the same feed wire (connected to the Boyer white wire) the bike was running on since 2012 and it has about 14v, zero when the kill switch is activated so that proves it comes from the kill sw., and it sparks the plugs when kicked,

Ok.


Originally Posted by Randy M
Few weeks ago the bike did start and run fine this way (after kicking, would not e-start), the ride was only aborted when throttle cable broke.

Was that after the Boyer MkIV had been fitted?



Originally Posted by Randy M
The only white or white and yellow wires go to the rectifier and turn signal flasher.

There would normally be a white to the flasher relay but no white or white/yellow to the rectifier so more odd wiring.



Originally Posted by Randy M
Here is the latest: still no spark when starter engaged – actually with all 3 plugs unscrewed from the head and sitting on it as a ground, each plug sparks once as soon as I hit the starter button and once the instant I lift my finger off but not in between (tried as long as 8 seconds). Voltage drops from 14 to 12.25v across the battery during this time (no compression), and when measured from the white wire to ground from 13.75 to 12 v. One would think that with 12V and no compression the plugs would fire.


Yes, as I'd have thought a Boyer MkIV would continue to function normally below 12.25V.


Originally Posted by Randy M
According to Walridge Motors there shld be 1.5 ohms across the two pickup wires near the Boyer so I will measure this tomorrow. Is it possible the problem is with the old magnetic rotor or pickups rather than the (new) transistor box?



I think the pickup is the same for MkIII and MkIV. If it was a pickup problem then I would expect it to affect kickstarting as well, however, it's something to check.

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Originally Posted by Randy M
According to Walridge Motors there shld be 1.5 ohms across the two pickup wires near the Boyer so I will measure this tomorrow. Is it possible the problem is with the old magnetic rotor or pickups rather than the (new) transistor box?

if it kick starts , its not the stator-pickups or rotor-magnets
and
Assuming the ohms numbers on this diagram are correct , the 2 stator coils are in series ... with a resistor in parallel
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
the resistance at the stator lead-wires would be
48.3 ohms

many/some report that a Boyer iv can be used with E-start ... if the wiring is good to excellent ...
... so , i think this is more a matter of chasing wiring integrity .
made more complicated by the last owner going cowboy with the harness colors and connections .
( makes me wonder where other wiring suprises may lie unseen )

the kill switch should now only run the Boyer-box and through the Boyer , the ignition coils .
(but the coils are normally off and are only momentarily energized for firing ... the coils may
also fire once when box is first energized or when turned off )

the start button should now only run a simpler relay funtion ... which activates the starter-solenoid .

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Currently I still have the issue of no spark when using the e-starter (except at the instant I hit the starter and the instant I release it, nothing in between and I’ve tried for as long as 8 seconds) HOWEVER per a suggestion from Mark who runs British Cycle Supply in Maine and Nova Scotia , if I jump a 16 gauge wire from battery Neg to the Boyer white wire (bypassing all the usual wires and connections and the ign and kill switch) I DO get spark during e-cranking. Likewise when I hook up a separate battery I also DO get spark at all times. (Mike Partridge wrote saying he once had a T160 and the extra battery he carried, with a switch, was the only way he could start it with the e-starter.)
Thinking possible degradation in the wiring and worrying about what Stuart was worrying about (wrong colored wire feed the Boyer) I found the White and Yellow wire in the kill switch and traced it back but it disappears aft of the battery and never reappears! I checked physical condition and continuity if it up to near the battery (it was fine) so snipped it off there and soldered on a connector so I can connect it to the Boyer. Snipping the WY wire had no effect of the Low tension system so that shows it really was not hooked up to anything. As for improving my HT problem the result was also zero effect. (As for the Blue and White wires that I formerly used I taped them off.)

Again voltage at the terminus of the WY wire is just under 14 v not connected to the Boyer and when I crank the e-starter it drops 2 volts. However no spark. When I connect the WY to the Boyer it is still just under 14 v but hitting the starter button the voltage drops to 3 volts. So:
Q1: why with Boyer hooked up does voltage drop change from about 2 to a whopping 11?.
Q 2: a) Since the WY wire from the kill switch shows 13.75 v with ign on (but no starter) why is it that by temp unhooking the Boyer and connecting it to the battery or a remote battery giving it 14v it should make no difference, or is it the extra amps that makes the difference. b) Is it possible that the wiring is reducing amperes not volts?
Q 3: As a solution until such a time as I may be able to afford a Tri-Spark kit, can I run a new permanent wire from Batt neg to the Boyer/WY connection (so there are 3 wires connected) but have a toggle switch in the new wire between the Batt and the 3 way connection for starting only? Not sure where I would locate it so its out of the rain but accessible but not too conspicuous.

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Originally Posted by Randy M
HOWEVER per a suggestion from Mark who runs British Cycle Supply in Maine and Nova Scotia , if I jump a 16 gauge wire from Battery Neg to the Boyer white wire (bypassing all the usual wires and connections and the ign and kill switch) I DO get spark during e-cranking.

Connect the jumper wire between the relay C4 terminal and Boyer white and see if you get the same result?

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Originally Posted by L.A.B.
Originally Posted by Randy M
HOWEVER per a suggestion from Mark who runs British Cycle Supply in Maine and Nova Scotia , if I jump a 16 gauge wire from Battery Neg to the Boyer white wire (bypassing all the usual wires and connections and the ign and kill switch) I DO get spark during e-cranking.

Connect the jumper wire between the relay C4 terminal and Boyer white and see if you get the same result?

its worth a try , and a good idea ( except )
relay terminal at C1 is an unfused battery connection .
when the starter relay is energized ... C2 an C4 are contacted and have
a fairly Direct battery connect .
... if it solves the problem ... fuse between C4 and Boyer box white

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Originally Posted by quinten
its worth a try , and a good idea ( except )
relay terminal at C1 is an unfused battery connection .
when the starter relay is energized ... C2 an C4 are contacted and have
a fairly Direct battery connect .

Just as it would be if C4 was used as the ballast bypass wire for the original points ignition.

C4 only being live/hot whilst the starter motor operates and was suggested as a test which might not work judging by the odd wiring on this bike.


Originally Posted by quinten
... if it solves the problem ... fuse between C4 and Boyer box white

If it works then it could be made permanent and a fuse included but the C4 wire would only be bypassing the circuit problem wherever it might be.

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Hi Randy,

Originally Posted by Randy M
BTW my battery is sitting at 14v but the power from the end of the White and Blue wire is only 13.75. Should I worry about the loss of 0.25v thru the system?
No.

Originally Posted by Randy M
Voltage drops from 14 to 12.25v across the battery during this time (no compression), and when measured from the white wire to ground from 13.75 to 12 v.
Mmmm ... I'm curious about this battery that's "sitting at 14v", what sort is it - ordinary lead-acid, AGM, gel, lithium-iron? What make? What Amp-hour rating?

Originally Posted by Randy M
until such a time as I may be able to afford a Tri-Spark kit, can I run a new permanent wire from Batt neg to the Boyer/WY connection
I hate to rain on your parade but, absent a problem with the existing Boyer-Bransden e.i., a Tri-Spark is not going to fix the particular wiring and/or other electrical problems your bike has:-

. To my certain knowledge, electric-starting a T160 fitted with Boyer-Bransden e.i. has not been a widespread general problem for twenty years.

. Therefore the problem you're experiencing must be down to one or more things on your bike - e.g. if "a new permanent wire from Batt neg to the Boyer/WY connection" 'fixes' the problem, the problem(s) lie(s) between battery -ve and the harness connection to the B-B White wire; why not just find and fix it/them? You have a meter, all you have to do is measure the Volts between battery +ve and each connection; when the Volts aren't 14V or 13.75V, you've found the (first) problem; fix that and carry on checking; when your meter displays 14V (or 13.75V) between battery +ve and the connection between the harness and the B-B White wire, you've probably found the problems between battery -ve and the connection between the harness and the B-B White wire. If the B-B Red wire and the "+" terminal of the last coil in the array are both connected directly to battery +ve, that should be at least the ignition LT circuit sorted.

Btw, when testing connections in any circuit, all switches must be on and all connections must be complete, don't disconnect anything; if you break the circuit, any Volts readings are meaningless.

Hth.

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Are you measuring 13.75 volts on the white-blue wire without anything connected to it? Any voltage drop with no load is going to be more of a problem with a load. Between what points are you measuring, battery and white-blue, Boyer red and white-blue, coil+ and white-blue?

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Boyer boxes normally switch off after a few seconds of inactivity. The Micro-MkIV is the same, presumably.

http://www.boyerbransden.com/faultfinding.html

"The Micro-MKIII, Micro-Digital and Micro-Power units all turn off when not being triggered,..."

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Hi Les,

Originally Posted by L.A.B.
Boyer boxes normally switch off after a few seconds of inactivity. The Micro-MkIV is the same, presumably.

http://www.boyerbransden.com/faultfinding.html

"The Micro-MKIII, Micro-Digital and Micro-Power units all turn off when not being triggered,..."
Aiui from John Healy's past posts, specifically triple ones don't?

Hth.

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Results of test recommended by LAB and Stuart (thanks so much)
IT WORKED! When I jump a wire from C-4 of relay to the connection between the starter wire (was Blue & White, now using the Yellow & White, both have 13.75 v) and the white Boyer box input wire, I get consistent spark during e-start.
New mystery: After I remove the jumper wire and push the starter button I sometimes STILL get a consistent spark. BUT if I turn ign switch OFF and wait a minute or two and try again, that mystery spark has disappeared and I am back to the status quo ante (no spark during e-start). This happened 2 tests in a row but not the 3rd time, then it did happen the 4th time and after releasing the button and trying again not the 5th time. Then on the 6th try I simply pushed and held then released the starter button several times and the first 3 X I got spark (not after that). Almost as if the relay has its own condenser/capacitor. (I have NO capacitors on the bike right now, abandoned previous cap and diode experiment) Comments? (call this issue A)
SO I will install a permanent wire between C-4 and the junction between the dual colored wire and the B-B white with an inline fuse.
So now my Q (call this issue B) is should fuse be same amps as main fuse (UK 35, US 17.5 or 20) or is it better to use the 7.5 amp (US) fuse previously recommended to protect the B-B?
BTW, I am using the far right cylinder for spark testing and all this has revealed a partial answer to an old issue. After the testing and even when ign switched off about 1 to 2 seconds later I get a weak residual spark or two. Over the years (with the Mk III and this new Mk IV) I have noticed that after switch off I sometimes get a loud pop (sounds like a gun shot) from the right muffler. Was told residual unexploded mixture in there was igniting from excess heat in the Right cylinder/header/muffler. Now I know its from a late spark. Sometimes when doing the latest experiment when i switch on the ign before doing anything else there is a wee crackle and tiny spark from the R cyl. Comments? (call this issue C)

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Britbike forum member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,795
Likes: 41
Originally Posted by Randy M
So now my Q (call this issue B) is should fuse be same amps as main fuse (UK 35, US 17.5 or 20) or is it better to use the 7.5 amp (US) fuse previously recommended to protect the B-B?

To answer 'B' first, a 7.5A continuous fuse should be adequate.



Originally Posted by Randy M
Results of test recommended by LAB and Stuart (thanks so much)
IT WORKED! When I jump a wire from C-4 of relay to the connection between the starter wire (was Blue & White, now using the Yellow & White, both have 13.75 v) and the white Boyer box input wire, I get consistent spark during e-start.
New mystery: After I remove the jumper wire and push the starter button I sometimes STILL get a consistent spark. BUT if I turn ign switch OFF and wait a minute or two and try again, that mystery spark has disappeared and I am back to the status quo ante (no spark during e-start). This happened 2 tests in a row but not the 3rd time, then it did happen the 4th time and after releasing the button and trying again not the 5th time. Then on the 6th try I simply pushed and held then released the starter button several times and the first 3 X I got spark (not after that). Almost as if the relay has its own condenser/capacitor. (I have NO capacitors on the bike right now, abandoned previous cap and diode experiment) Comments? (call this issue A)
SO I will install a permanent wire between C-4 and the junction between the dual colored wire and the B-B white with an inline fuse.

BTW, I am using the far right cylinder for spark testing and all this has revealed a partial answer to an old issue. After the testing and even when ign switched off about 1 to 2 seconds later I get a weak residual spark or two. Over the years (with the Mk III and this new Mk IV) I have noticed that after switch off I sometimes get a loud pop (sounds like a gun shot) from the right muffler. Was told residual unexploded mixture in there was igniting from excess heat in the Right cylinder/header/muffler. Now I know its from a late spark. Sometimes when doing the latest experiment when i switch on the ign before doing anything else there is a wee crackle and tiny spark from the R cyl. Comments? (call this issue C)

As the jumper wire from C4 to Boyer white worked and from your description it seems to point to a bad connection in the ignition circuit.

Possibly a corroded, burnt or worn ignition switch or kill switch contact or corroded pins and sockets of the RH switch cluster multi-pin plug (white and white/yellow wires) which are barely adequate electrical conductors when in good condition.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


If you can find the fault and correct it then it shouldn't need a permanent C4 to Boyer white connection.

Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 22
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Randy M Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 22
thanks so much but I did check the same connections as in your photos and they looked as new. Also I had the ign sw apart last summer (no use since then other than the aborted test ride) and the terminals all looked fine. I DO have 13.75 v where the Yellow& White (also Blue and White) wires come back to the seat area from the kill switch after going from batt to ZD to ign sw to kill switch.
Thanks to you after about 180 hours spent I now have spark during cranking (and kicking, and under compression) by following your and Stuart's advice. I installed a 7.5 amp fuse en route.   However weirdly after I disconnected the batt to solder in after mocking up, when i reconn the batt the dash lights lit up. (Current going in reverse?) Not knowing what to do I turned the ign ON and then OFF and that seemed to reset it and its normal again. I have now removed the batt for winter storage so expect the same weird result in Spring when I reconnect. Is this harmful?  Any thoughts on issues A and C?

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