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Noob questions: The '64 seems to be on the cusp of a change over so I need to confirm...is it 12V? And positive or negative ground?


1964 RE Interceptor 750, 2007 RE Bullet 500
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Look at the bike's existing bulbs to determine what voltage it most likely is.
Positive ground to your second question.


They say every dog has his day..
Trouble is, nobody tells the dog which day it is !

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The tail light told me nada. Haven't pulled the headlamp apart yet.


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You can check the gauges also. They should have little bulbs in them for nighttime illumination.


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Did I time the mag right? Did I? Why are the carbs leaking? This thing will never start...
[video:youtube]
[/video]


1964 RE Interceptor 750, 2007 RE Bullet 500
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CLICK BAIT ! I
I was waiting to see you kicking your arse off. LOL
Sounds decent and no smoke. Give it time mate :P
Cheers


They say every dog has his day..
Trouble is, nobody tells the dog which day it is !

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Congratulations Dwight, way to go! I was wondering what oilyamerican meant with his message, but now I understand.

Well done!
...gREgg


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That sounds great Dwight. Congratulations. Maybe the carb washers will swell up a bit now that you put some gas in it? I don't remember problems with Monoblocs leaking there.
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I believe the rubber lined washers are called "Dowty" washers....basically a neoprene o-ring bonded into the center of a steel washer.
Similar items are available in the States from MSC Industrial supply, which I've used on gas taps with good results.


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So what do you think Dwight, hearing your mighty Interceptor for the first time?
Tom Oil

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Sounds...powerful!
Those main jet gaskets though...rubbish. I can't understand why they leak so bad? Yes, same size as what came off.

So help me out guys. This thing is positive ground, apparently (and 12v?). Does that mean I just hook a battery up backwards from 'normal'? I haven't tried tracing the wires yet but is red supposed to be hot or ground?

Shifter and brake backwards...battery polarity backwards...no wonder we beat them in the War for Independence, LOL.


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Dwight, it sounds like you may have received the wrong grade of washer from your supplier ... fiber stock comes in various types, and you want a washer that is not very hard, so that it seals.

Dowty washers work well on gas taps, but if you try them on the Monoblocs, be sure you get ones that are the same thickness as the "correct" fiber washers. This is because the thickness of that washer affects the position of the needle jet relative to the throttle needle, and an incorrect washer will cause that range of the carb mixture to be "off" from the desired setting.
...gREgg

Last edited by gREgg-K; 01/26/21 4:00 pm.

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Originally Posted by Dwight V
Sounds...powerful!
Those main jet gaskets though...rubbish. I can't understand why they leak so bad? Yes, same size as what came off.

So help me out guys. This thing is positive ground, apparently (and 12v?). Does that mean I just hook a battery up backwards from 'normal'? I haven't tried tracing the wires yet but is red supposed to be hot or ground?

Shifter and brake backwards...battery polarity backwards...no wonder we beat them in the War for Independence, LOL.

The wiring takes care of directing the battery flow. The red lead normally goes to positive and the other to negative .

FYI... if memory serves...at least the small Italian Aermacchi built AMF Harleys had positive ground wiring. So the Brits weren't the only ones.
Not an electrical engineer, so I have no idea if one direction is better than another ??

Concerning right hand shift verses left hand, I had read that this was to facilitate shifting on a race track since the races were run counterclockwise so the rider was always leaning to the left and shifting might be impeded by a foot scraping the tarmac. This idea could be total rubbish too, but I saw it in print many years ago.

Last edited by oilyamerican; 01/26/21 3:45 pm.

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You were still British. No wonder you won!

Anyway, many old American cars were positive earth.

Most of the 1930s British bikes (not Rudge) got footchange mechanisms that were stuck on in place of a right side hand change. The clutch and chains were in the way on the left side anyway.

Harley Sportsters had a right foot shift.

Last edited by triton thrasher; 01/26/21 4:03 pm.

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Originally Posted by triton thrasher
Most of the 1930s British bikes (not Rudge) got footchange mechanisms that were stuck on in place of a right side hand change. The clutch and chains were in the way on the left side anyway.

Harley Sportsters had a right foot shift.

Your point about the drive train makes more mechanical sense regarding shifter placement.
I forgot about the early Sportsters being right foot shift.

And I believe it was the US government that decided to require the change to left handed foot shift back in the mid 70's.
Why that was of national importance, I haven't a clue..


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Apart from thinking it was a good idea for bike controls to be standardised, it seemed like a good idea to press the brake pedal with the right foot, same as you do in a car.


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Hi Dwight,
Originally Posted by oilyamerican
I believe the rubber lined washers are called "Dowty" washers....basically a neoprene o-ring bonded into the center of a steel washer.
I've used on gas taps with good results.
Originally Posted by gREgg-K
Dowty washers work well on gas taps, but if you try them on the Monoblocs, be sure you get ones that are the same thickness as the "correct" fiber washers. This is because the thickness of that washer affects the position of the needle jet relative to the throttle needle, and an incorrect washer will cause that range of the carb mixture to be "off" from the desired setting.
Uh-uh, gas taps should have Stat-O-Seal washers, which is what @oilyamerican appears to be describing:-

[Linked Image from potentiometers.com]

... otoh, actual "Dowty" washers (aka "bonded washers") are:-

[Linked Image from charnleys.com]

... the differences are: the Stat-O-Seal seal is much thicker than the surrounding "Retainer", whereas the Dowty is pretty-much the same thickness; for the same ID, Stat-O-Seal Retainer o.d. is much greater than a Dowty's.

If you want to seal a gas tap's thread, Stat-O-Seal is what you want. However, because the Stat-O-Seal's seal is thicker than the retainer, because gas taps screw into the tank, and some have a locknut, a plain metal washer must be fitted between the Stat-O-Seal and tap or locknut, turning the tap or locknut against the Stat-O-Seal's seal will simply tear the latter. frown

If your bike's taps' threads are the common 3/8"BSP (British Standard Pipe) - thread o.d. a gnat's over 1/2" - Stat-O-Seal and matching plain washers are available from Meriden Triumph dealers - 70-7351 is the Stat-O-Seal, 83-0002 is the plain. Otoh, if you buy by size from somewhere like a hydraulics or compressor spares supplier, 3/8"BSP is the correct size, M13 (13 mm. ID) might also work. When fitting Stat-O-Seals over threads, I always wind them on like a nut, with a little cheap spray-on furniture polish which is what I use as 'rubber' lube.

Regrettably, checking "Stat-O-Seal" and "Dowty" with an internet search engine is confusing, either term will return links to both types. frown However, the Dowty is so-called because it was invented by a British aero engineer in the 1930's:-

[Linked Image from dowtyheritage.org.uk]

... its usually "C"-section seal intended to seal on smooth, possibly moving, shafts; because the seal is pretty-much the same thickness as the surrounding retainer, the seal doesn't deform when squeezed, the Stat-O-Seal's does.

Originally Posted by Dwight V
This thing is positive ground, apparently (and 12v?). Does that mean I just hook a battery up backwards from 'normal'?
shocked Absolutely not! batteries supply DC (Direct Current). A battery is a battery - there isn't any such thing as a 'positive ground battery' or a 'negative ground battery' - so you should never "hook [it] up" any different way.

"positive ground" and "negative ground" are determined only by the battery terminal connected to the frame or (car/truck) body, doesn't have any effect on which way the electrons go (which, to do your head in, is from negative to positive laughing ).

Originally Posted by Dwight V
red supposed to be hot or ground?
Red is always positive.

Btw, Lucas insulation colours are a code. While they used Red for positive and Black for negative, they didn't use 'em together, the wire to the other battery terminal is either plain Brown or Brown/Blue (mainly Brown with one or two thin Blue tracer lines). So, unless a DPO screwed with it, you could/can always tell "ground" by looking at the wire colours connected to the battery terminals. thumbsup

Originally Posted by oilyamerican
The wiring takes care of directing the battery flow. The red lead normally goes to positive and the other to negative.
confused "battery flow" is always the same, Red lead always goes to positive unless a DPO got to the wiring before you ...

Originally Posted by oilyamerican
if memory serves...at least the small Italian Aermacchi built AMF Harleys had positive ground wiring. So the Brits weren't the only ones..
Thread a while ago over on the Triumph Board says HD Aermacchis are a source of cheap "negative ground" 3-phase rectifiers for '79-on Triumphs, because Lucas supplied Aermacchi ... laughing

Originally Posted by oilyamerican
no idea if one direction is better than another ?.
Neither.

Originally Posted by oilyamerican
right hand shift verses left hand, I had read that this was to facilitate shifting on a race track since the races were run counterclockwise so the rider was always leaning to the left and shifting might be impeded by a foot scraping the tarmac.
Or US races were run anti-clockwise because shifters were on the right? smile

In GB, right-hand shifting seems to have been because most motorcycle makers started out buying proprietary engines and gearboxes, the gearbox makers put the input and output on the left, the change mechanism on the right; when motorcycle makers started to make their own engines and gearboxes, they didn't always do both at the same time, so the transmission and change need to stay on the same sides.

Originally Posted by triton thrasher
Apart from thinking it was a good idea for bike controls to be standardised, it seemed like a good idea to press the brake pedal with the right foot, same as you do in a car.
... and, by the mid-1970's, there were more Japanese bikes in use in the US than from anywhere else ...? whistle

Hth.

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Originally Posted by gREgg-K
Dwight, it sounds like you may have received the wrong grade of washer from your supplier ... fiber stock comes in various types, and you want a washer that is not very hard, so that it seals.

Dowty washers work well on gas taps, but if you try them on the Monoblocs, be sure you get ones that are the same thickness as the "correct" fiber washers. This is because the thickness of that washer affects the position of the needle jet relative to the throttle needle, and an incorrect washer will cause that range of the carb mixture to be "off" from the desired setting.
...gREgg

The rebuild kits are genuine AMAL from Hitchcocks.
I'm not sure what to do about them. Obviously not something I want to smear sealant on. Truly don't think I should crank down on them further. The fiber washers are what they used originally so why don't these wretched ones seal?


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Took them apart, flipped the seals and tried again. One just gets a bit damp but the other one still drips.
I also had an issue with the one carb flooding when the fuel tap was turned on. After much mucking about I found that the ticklers protrude too far into the bowl chamber and stop the float from rising to a fully seated position. The opposite one would just barely close. I added some small washers under them and all is well but I have to wonder WHY I had to do this?

Took the headlamp apart and pulled the sockets from the instruments. All the bulbs are stamped 6v. I thought Interceptors (USA) were 12v according to everything I've found in print.


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Hi Dwight
About 30 years ago I bought a 1966 MkI Interceptor in Lockport New York. It was completely original. Only 4K miles on the clock. Still had the made in England K70 Dunlop’s on it. It was 6V.
Cheers
Don in Niagara


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From a questionable memory, 12V was available, and popular in the UK. It required a pair of 6V batteries as Lucas did not yet have a 12V battery for motorcycles. USA dealers felt their customers preferred the smaller toolbox used with 6V over the larger toolbox required to accommodate 2 batteries. I think that info is in the Minutes of Meetings of the Design Review Committee the REOC now has copies of. Sorry, too pressed for time to verify.

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Brief update.
The Dowty washers (verified same thickness) solved the weeping carb fittings!
Replaced both throttle cables as the throttle was lazy to return. I did find one with a bad strand. They now work as they should.
Replacement tach cable has resulted in a functioning tachometer.
So it's running and not leaking and I'm ready to take a test run down the road and back. Except, it won't go into gear, just grinds.
Oh no...
Y'all don't know my history but I finished up a Bullet 350 resurrection for a friend just days prior to getting the Interceptor. One of the problems with that bike was the clutch would not fully disengage. I spent WEEKS of evenings poking at it and taking it apart/putting it back together and throwing parts at it trying to solve the problem. Though I found a few problems it was ultimately a bent transmission shaft (!) and some dubious parts useage done when the bike had been rebuilt in India.
There's a long story there. But I digress.
So you can imagine my horror when the Interceptor suddenly decided it no longer wants to de-clutch. I'm certain it had worked when I just got it running on the center stand.

Well, off with the primary cover and making a mess with ATF.
I played with the cable adjustment but it of course had no effect. The clutch did feel 'gummy' and after having a look I saw that there was some visible 'sludge' here and there so took it all apart, gave it all a good cleaning and inspection, and reassembled. Which of course fixed nothing.
I pull the handle and the plates separate as they should visually but with the bike in gear I cannot spin the rear wheel. If I try kicking the bike over with the clutch pulled and the tire contacting the ground no love either. Something is still engaging.
Click it in neutral and all good, of course.
Engine running or not, doesn't matter.

The only part I haven't disassembled is the basket itself so I guess I'll pull that all apart tomorrow and have a look. I'm starting to think I'm cursed.


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Dwight,
Could it be that you have the first and last plain clutch plates installed backward? Those plates are dished, and should be installed so that their dished faces are toward one another. The flat plates are installed between the dished plates.

Also, use a dial gauge to measure how much the release mechanism lifts the pressure plate, and actually verify they are separating adequately. Many times I've seen a worn release mechanism that does not lift the plate enough. Another frequent cause of insufficient lift is a clutch cable that collapses.

... gREgg


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Originally Posted by Dwight V
Brief update.
The only part I haven't disassembled is the basket itself so I guess I'll pull that all apart tomorrow and have a look. I'm starting to think I'm cursed.

While you have the basket off, carefully inspect the steel partitions of the basket that keep the clutch plates aligned.
You want to look for two things:

1. notches peened into the edges from the plates slamming into them. These should be smoothed down with a file. Same goes for the center hub piece.

2. CRACKS ! Those partitions that form the basket can suffer metal fatigue at the 90 degree bend where they form the bottom of the basket.
If the bike has been thrashed, these sections will start to get forced outwards and apart and will eventually snap off.
Any cracks should be TIG welded.

I can speak from experience on #2, as I had a piece of clutch basket separate while riding my SII home one afternoon.
I felt a slight "clunk" at my left ankle when the piece broke free and hit the inside of the primary cover.
Luckily, it didn't get caught in the primary chain, and I was able to weld it back in place.
As an added safety precaution, I machined a thin "retaining band" that fit over the outside of the basket and then TIG'd it in place.
That should keep the basket partitions from flaring out and cracking again.

Last edited by oilyamerican; 03/12/21 9:39 pm.

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Originally Posted by Dwight V
.....Except, it won't go into gear, just grinds....Oh no...
This is a common problem, a clutch that won't free off. Some are worse than others. Try this....

With engine running and clutch lever pulled in, push it, or roll it down an incline fast enough to select first and then lurch it with the throttle to try to break it free. Try second or third if it's really stubborn and there is room. My BSA's get that way when they sit, my survivor Trident was that way when I got it running (it actually did need a clutch). Dry plate cars even have that problem sometimes. I have used the strategy many times and it usually works though it does sound a little animal.

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