Britbike forum

Classic British SparesKlempf British PartsBaxter CycleBritBike Sponsor SteadfastCyclesThe Bonneville ShopLowbrow CustomsGirling Classic MotorcycleLucas Classic MotorcycleHepolite PistonsIndustrial tec supply Classic Bike Parts Cheshire

Upgrade Your membership! Premium Membership Gold Membership Vendor Membership

New Sponsor post
New FAQ post
Manuals on DVD - Buy 4 for 3
All 4 DVD Manual
Member Spotlight
Tridentman
Tridentman
New Jersey USA
Posts: 6,019
Joined: February 2008
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Top Posters(30 Days)
quinten 71
Top Likes Received (30 Days)
NickL 28
quinten 23
Newest Members
Ianc15, chuckhaz, Motorelic, Mrmoe, cole simon
12,117 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
3 members (L.A.B., gavin eisler, R Moulding), 35 guests, and 16 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums35
Topics76,030
Posts769,130
Members12,117
Most Online151
May 8th, 2022
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 89
Likes: 12
D
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
D
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 89
Likes: 12
I dread asking this question, but...any objection to my using 10w-40 Rotella in the engine? I think the diesel formula has better nutrients for these old bikes.
Also, for the primary...same as engine? I run Type F auto trans fluid in my Bullet (recommended by most folks).


1964 RE Interceptor 750, 2007 RE Bullet 500
Royal Enfield on eBay
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 496
Likes: 29
L
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
L
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 496
Likes: 29
I won't comment on motor oil choice.. 'cause as you know, everybody has their opinion.
And unless you plan on trashing your machine, or riding in 90 degree weather.. you probably won't notice much of a difference anyway.

Concerning your primary, go with what your using in your Bullet. It's pretty much the same parts working under the same conditions.


They say every dog has his day..
Trouble is, nobody tells the dog which day it is !

Will work for Guinness , MURPHY's preferred smile
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 183
Likes: 4
T
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
T
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 183
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by Dwight V
I dread asking this question, but...any objection to my using 10w-40 Rotella in the engine? I think the diesel formula has better nutrients for these old bikes.
Also, for the primary...same as engine? I run Type F auto trans fluid in my Bullet (recommended by most folks).

I'm using Shell Rotella T4 15-40 in my engines with Lucas Heavy duty oil stabilizer additive to give it cling.
This was recommended to me by an old racer/tuner I knew.
I'm going with type F in the trans, and Red Line V Twin gear oil in the trany, this way I can know whats leaking by the color.

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 927
Likes: 328
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 927
Likes: 328
Originally Posted by Dwight V
I dread asking this question, but...any objection to my using 10w-40 Rotella in the engine? I think the diesel formula has better nutrients for these old bikes..
And I kind of dread giving this answer but here goes. Earlier Enfield twins weren't good at maintaining a safe hot oil pressure. If you put a gauge on it once it's running, you will likely see 100psi cold dropping to 15psi hot driving on the road. They also recommended an anti-friction additive for breaking in new engines (Doesn't apply to you) which still makes it sound like they knew there was a problem there. All that to say that higher viscosity oil will be a good thing for these bikes. 20-60 oils are available and will be a step toward engine longevity. The other option, and this is not that simple, is to modify the oil system for greater flow. They need about four times as much.

Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 89
Likes: 12
D
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
D
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 89
Likes: 12
I meant 15-40, not 10-40 for the Rotella. Doh.
So Type F for the primary then. I haven't checked the transmission yet but based on the amount of oil around the drain plug I'm guessing it's low.

The rod that the front pegs attach to was bent and got butchered on the way out so I bought a new one. I'll be damned if I can get either one to go back in. Am I right that the 'octagon' portion is just the metal plates/brackets between the oil sump and the frame tubes? Looks like they are not aligned and I can't figure out what to loosen to get engagement.

The rubber on the primary slack adjuster shoe is worn almost through so I bought the nylon replacement from Hitchcocks. Anyone do one of those with the brass rivets? Can't envision how I can peen those over without it being a disaster.

Replaced the stupid BMX bike grips with proper ones. Been doing a fair amount of polishing and am impressed how things are cleaning up. Expect some additions to the shop for Christmas so the carbs will have to wait until after the holidays. I bought new fork seals as these appear to be weeping. I've done them on modern bikes but these old style will be a learning experience.


1964 RE Interceptor 750, 2007 RE Bullet 500
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 183
Likes: 4
T
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
T
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 183
Likes: 4
Castor oil was a popular oil back in the day because it stuck to everything, but only came in 50 weight.
For this reason I use the Lucas oil additive.
I found an old pamphlet on ebay from RE about recommended procedure for breaking in the motor, and it recommended adding graphite to the oil for breakin. I''ve used Aeroshell 100, 50 weight mineral oil for breaking my engines, but you have to go to an airport to get it.
An oil cooler helps with the cavitation problem once these engines get hot, and they do not like hot weather!

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 28
R
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
R
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 28
Did you find the Sump drain?Really a good idea to let that drain before putting new oil through the motor.
colin

tomoil #832565 12/07/20 10:02 pm
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 927
Likes: 328
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 927
Likes: 328
Originally Posted by tomoil
Castor oil was a popular oil back in the day because it stuck to everything, but only came in 50 weight.
For this reason I use the Lucas oil additive.
I found an old pamphlet on ebay from RE about recommended procedure for breaking in the motor, and it recommended adding graphite to the oil for breakin. I''ve used Aeroshell 100, 50 weight mineral oil for breaking my engines, but you have to go to an airport to get it.
An oil cooler helps with the cavitation problem once these engines get hot, and they do not like hot weather!
Every bit of this is good info. Interestingly, castor bean oil is attracted to heat instead of being dispersed by it.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

And yes, in stock form these engines do not stand up well to sustained hard use (June/July 1993 Bulletin). Note the giant hole in the lower left case. This was a 700cc meteor engine but the Interceptor had essentially the same oil system.

Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 89
Likes: 12
D
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
D
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 89
Likes: 12
"Sustained hard use". Judging by the roll bar in that Berkeley I'd say it wasn't being driven down to the shops.
I don't intend to ride this other than nice days, likely under 85 degrees F. I've dealt with cantankerous British bikes on very hot, humid days. Boiling fuel, etc and won't want to start or will stall at inopportune times. Nope, I'll take one of my other newer, reliable, electric start machines when it's like that. If it's as reliable as my Indian built Bullet has been (surprisingly decent) I'll be happy enough.

I fully drained the sump via the big side plug/screen thing with it tipped over a bit.


1964 RE Interceptor 750, 2007 RE Bullet 500
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 9,054
Likes: 162
T
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
T
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 9,054
Likes: 162
Originally Posted by tomoil
Castor oil was a popular oil back in the day because it stuck to everything, but only came in 50 weight.

I’ve seen Castrol R30 and R40, but never 50, but then I’ve never lived in a hot place.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 496
Likes: 29
L
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
L
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 496
Likes: 29
True castor oil has some unfavorable side effects from what I've read...
#1 it leaves a hard to remove "varnish" in crankcases
#2 according to WW1 pilots, prolonged breathing of the fumes worked as a laxative.


They say every dog has his day..
Trouble is, nobody tells the dog which day it is !

Will work for Guinness , MURPHY's preferred smile
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,210
Likes: 458
C
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
C
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,210
Likes: 458
Originally Posted by triton thrasher
Originally Posted by tomoil
Castor oil was a popular oil back in the day because it stuck to everything, but only came in 50 weight.

I’ve seen Castrol R30 and R40, but never 50, but then I’ve never lived in a hot place.

Same here. Wonder what the shelf life is on that stuff. These are from long ago..... still feels like 40 and hasn’t solidified yet.

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]76032FB3-0E05-4F0C-8F51-7F800B3B45E5 by First Last, on Flickr

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 9,054
Likes: 162
T
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
T
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 9,054
Likes: 162
Originally Posted by Cyborg
Same here. Wonder what the shelf life is on that stuff. These are from long ago..... still feels like 40 and hasn’t solidified yet.

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]76032FB3-0E05-4F0C-8F51-7F800B3B45E5 by First Last, on Flickr

Bet you a tenner they haven’t lost their laxative properties.

Prove me wrong!


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
1 member likes this: Cyborg
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 927
Likes: 328
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 927
Likes: 328
Originally Posted by Dwight V
"Sustained hard use". Judging by the roll bar in that Berkeley I'd say it wasn't being driven down to the shops..
Yes, this photo was taken at the Laguna Seca raceway paddock in 1991. I think it took the poor thing about 2 laps to heave its guts. In the spirit of disclosure, I got roped into this project a year or two later. Extensive oil system revisions followed which put an end to the rod failures and the car became a regular and spirited competitor.


Originally Posted by Dwight V
...I don't intend to ride this other than nice days, likely under 85 degrees ....
Avoid longish freeway runs more than about 10 miles too, basically anything that would thoroughly heat soak the engine and oil. It is a frustration because these bikes have great torque and are fairly long legged so they act like a good highway bike.

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 183
Likes: 4
T
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
T
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 183
Likes: 4
No doubt the engines we are talking about here were developed during the transition of poor performing mineral oils to the superior performance mineral oils of today.
Perhaps we should keep that in mind when try to accommodate the needs of our vintage motors.

Here is an interesting article
https://www.penriteoil.com.au/knowledge-centre/Castor-Oils/184/The-History-of-Castor-Oil/394

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 9,054
Likes: 162
T
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
T
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 9,054
Likes: 162
The way RE (and others) carried on, you’d think pumping and circulating enough oil in an engine design was actually difficult.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 28
R
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
R
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by Dwight V
"Sustained hard use". Judging by the roll bar in that Berkeley I'd say it wasn't being driven down to the shops.
I don't intend to ride this other than nice days, likely under 85 degrees F. I've dealt with cantankerous British bikes on very hot, humid days. Boiling fuel, etc and won't want to start or will stall at inopportune times. Nope, I'll take one of my other newer, reliable, electric start machines when it's like that. If it's as reliable as my Indian built Bullet has been (surprisingly decent) I'll be happy enough.

I fully drained the sump via the big side plug/screen thing with it tipped over a bit.

Dwight,what you call the sump with the large drain plug is the oil tank on a Twin.Every twin i've worked on from the very first 500 twin on has a separate sump
which will hold approx one cupful of oil,That is continually drained by one side of the scavenge pump,the other side drains the timing case.
If the drain plug is not over on the primary side it will be forward of that oil tank plug,and screwed in vertically.The head of the screw will be impossible to see
as it is set in flush unless you hold a camera under motor and take a couple of shots.You can see the profile of the sump if you look carefully around the bottom of the crankcase.
colin

Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 89
Likes: 12
D
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
D
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 89
Likes: 12
I see screws in the parts diagram, will have to look again. Not having it on a lift makes it a bit difficult.
I then have to wonder about the brilliance of the engineer that thought a screw head plug was a good idea...


1964 RE Interceptor 750, 2007 RE Bullet 500
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 496
Likes: 29
L
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
L
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 496
Likes: 29
Unfortunately, most engineer's good ideas have to get past the accountant's office first.


They say every dog has his day..
Trouble is, nobody tells the dog which day it is !

Will work for Guinness , MURPHY's preferred smile
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 28
R
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
R
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 28
I have Twin motors ranging from the earliest Sand cast 500's through to the Mk1a,and everyone has a different arrangement for either the Oil tank drain or those sump plug/plugs.The earlier motors made it impossible to clean the drilling from the sump out to the R/H
side and it's essential to keep that drilling clear as it was only extremely small in dia,sludge forms together with fine grit easily closes that drilling.The only way to clear it is to separate the cases,later on they made it possible to clear it from below or through the Oil tank drain plug oriface,again they all seem to be different.One bike i had that wouldn't scavenge the sump was cleared up by backfilling the sump with petrol till eventually it all let go.Diesel oil may be a good idea.
The critical one is the sump drilling which leads from the centerline of the engine out to the r/h side turns vertical,turns horizontal and forward,turns vertical turns horizontal and out the r/h side through the timing cover joint then turns finally another 90 deg turn emerging though the oil pump disc to the pump piston.The drillings from the top front,that line up with the oil pump need to be cleaned,remove the 4 screws below the pumps(one drilling is the oil tank return and the other is the sump suction so spraying through them will show where solvent cleaner emerges.The only one likely to be blocked is that sump drilling.
The other one to check is the rear main pump suction from the oil tank that usually just goes straight up to the rear pump in a straight drilling.
You're doing a great job there.
colin

Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 89
Likes: 12
D
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
D
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 89
Likes: 12
Looking for some guidance on the forks. I need to renew the seals (which I have) but can't find reference to what weight oil should be used in the forks. Also, is there a way to drain the old out without completely disassembling?


1964 RE Interceptor 750, 2007 RE Bullet 500
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,647
Likes: 77
R
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
R
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,647
Likes: 77
I'm not sure on the history of this, but any refurbing of old forks to this level is worthy of stripping down,
and tipping and cleaning out the gunge and detritus that seems to accumulate in the bottom.
If there is any grit in there, you don't want that remaining and wearing into your new seals etc ?

Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 89
Likes: 12
D
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
D
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 89
Likes: 12
I did find that they use 20w. However, no quantity listed. Will one 16oz bottle do both?

Last edited by Dwight V; 01/04/21 1:09 am.

1964 RE Interceptor 750, 2007 RE Bullet 500
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 89
Likes: 12
D
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
D
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 89
Likes: 12
Latest update.

[video:youtube]
[/video]


1964 RE Interceptor 750, 2007 RE Bullet 500
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 89
Likes: 12
D
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
D
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 89
Likes: 12
One more update. Next time we attempt to start!
[video:youtube]
[/video]

BTW, I found I had some 20-50 Valvoline racing oil. It specifically notes a high zinc content. Fabulous oil I used to run in my BMW race car. Expensive, but it's only 2-ish quarts in one of these.


1964 RE Interceptor 750, 2007 RE Bullet 500
Page 3 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  royaloilfield 

Link Copied to Clipboard
British Cycle SupplyMorries PlaceKlempf British PartsBSA Unit SinglesPodtronicVintage MagazineBritBike SponsorBritish Tools & FastenersBritBike Sponsor






© 1996-2022 britbike.com
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5