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#812193 06/11/20 8:26 pm
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Anybody know of a better way to attach chainguards to a TR6C than bolts and nuts. My rebuild project has progressed to the point of trying to fit up the chain drive train and all the stuff attached. I am finding it a real PITA to install/un-install the chain guard, perhaps because of the aftermarket guard I bought and had powder coated. The front access port is laughably mis-aligned with the attach bolt and the rear attachment bolt is squashed into a space between swing arm lug and brake plate, almost inaccessiblet. My thoughts are to use a rivnut or nut plate on the front to make swinging the chain guard up out of the way possible without major tear down of exhausts and engine breather hoses. There is no getting a wrench on the back side of that forward attach nut and bolt.

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First: There was NO "access port" on 500cc (T100C) chain guards.

If you mean it to be a large hole at the left front of the guard, you have a 650cc guard, which is LONGER that that for a 500cc bike.
You should have checked what you were buying before you actually bought it.

Second, there was not a standard "bolt" used to fasten the rear of the guard to the swing arm.
A special fastener was used that entered the swing arm from inside, with two flats that engage the slot of the chain guard,
A washer and lock nut on the outside of the swing arm then completed the installation.

(You DO know that the chain guard's rear mount goes INSIDE the swing arm, I hope.)

WHY didn't you trial-fit the chain guard BEFORE you spent the money and the wasted effort to have it "powder-coated?"

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Can anyone on the board honestly say they never bought the wrong part? Or never had the wrong part sent to them?

Not I.


Bruce Miller
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I've probably missed something (not unusual) but TrophyGuy in his original post says:

"Anybody know of a better way to attach chainguards to a TR6C than bolts and nuts."


Irish Swede then says:

"First: There was NO "access port" on 500cc (T100C) chain guards.
If you mean it to be a large hole at the left front of the guard, you have a 650cc guard, which is LONGER that that for a 500cc bike."


How do they relate to each other?

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Irish Swede's apparent overlook was my reference to TR6C. I did once own a T100R, though. Irish is very familiar with the rear attachment bolt, another of Triumph's Rube Goldberg fixes that ultimately ran them out of business. I once had a Triumph enthusist, an A&P mechanic, tell me he was tired of working on old Triumphs because of all the custom fits. I nevere realized how true that statement was until I tore one down to the frame. They are truly 1930's technology. Having said that, they are fun to work on, like a Rubik's Cube.

My aftermarket, late production chain guard, in the white, was purchased from a supplier on this forum. The old one was damaged beyond use. I am thrilled to be able to buy parts like this 50 years out of new production. You can't bang out a chain guard in a small shop. It's die formed, moderately heavy guage, sheet metal with two attachment bars spot welded on. I don't think you could make one with an English wheel, but even if so, it would take a while. Fitment is OK in some respects. The center-to-center distance of the forward mounting hole and rear slot are on the money, but the upper guard housing is warped and fouls the chain. This has required numerous removals for trial bending, not something you want to do often. Shop Manual correctly advises to swing the guard upward for rear wheel removal, but the mounting bolts must be loosened. The forward one is buried inside interferences. A previous owner used a round head bolt and nylock washer that cannot be satisfactorily tightened without access to the back side. The access port to tighen the outboard nut is badly misaligned with the centerline of the bolt.

All this is pretty normal stuff for Triumph bodywork. Pity the poor assembly line worker who had to knock these things out on a production schedule. Sorry for the long post, but I was fishing for confirmation that a nut plate or Rivnut would work satisfactorily for the forward attachment.

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Nut plate maybe, but I could just see that rivnut getting loose in its mounting and spinning. smile

Hey maybe a dzus fastener? With wings even?

Last edited by slofut; 06/12/20 5:17 pm.

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The simple answer is yes there is a better idea than a plain nut and bolt, the same one the factory engineers came up with. The mounting bolt for the rear has a shoulder with two flats so it is retained by the swing arm, that means you only have too loosen the nut to slide out the slotted mount. At the front a shouldered bolt is used with a reduced head. This is inserted through the access hole in the chain guard ( The reduced head is for chain clearance ) then a thackery washer, plain washer and lock nut is fitted. Since the shoulder is longer than the combined width of the chain guard and swing arm mounting tabs once tightened the mount remains loose enough to pivot without having to undo the locknut and the thackery washer stops it from vibrating. What more do you need?

As for making your own chain guard, it's not impossible if you have the knackered one you can rob the mounts and rear most curved section from. The most complicated tool you need is a railing!

Do you not have a parts book?

Rod


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'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth'

An interesting point given recent events.

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If Trophy Guy had sent a photo of the chain guard I wouldn't have had to interpret his description "front access port."
No such thing exists on an actual 500cc chain guard so I had to think he had described a 650 one.

He's still talking about an "access port," so I still question what chain guard he has (and who supplied it to him).
Again, why did he "powder-coat" it before doing a trial fitting to see if it actually WOULD fit

Hermit, yes. Sometimes we buy the wrong part, or are victims of some sellers who masquerade as "experts" but know
nothing about what they are selling. But we should learn it's the wrong part BEFORE we paint or powcer-coat it!

I currently own THREE 500s, have owned one of them for 48 years, so I am rather familiar with how they are put together.
Rob Moulding's description of how they are SUPPOSED to be mounted is SPOT-ON.

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Experience is born from making such mistakes at least once. Then making it right successively on other accounts.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

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I do have a parts book (#7) for my 1969 T120R and while it does list a stepped bolt (82-9387) in the rear position, the bolt it shows in the front position is a plain bolt (14-0113 UNF 5/16-24TPI X 9/16 U.H.) and it is secured with a locking nut (14-0702 UNF 5/16-24TPI thin Philidas). No thackery washer, no plain washer.

But then #7 also shows the forward bolt fitted from the inside and the nut in the outboard position. Opposite of how this bolt and nut are usually installed, no?

So my question for Rod is, what parts book for what models shows the parts combination that you mention?


Originally Posted by R Moulding
The simple answer is yes there is a better idea than a plain nut and bolt the same one the factory engineers came up with. The mounting bolt for the rear has a shoulder with two flats so it is retained by the swing arm, that means you only have too loosen the nut to slide out the slotted mount. At the front a shouldered bolt is used with a reduced head. This is inserted through the access hole in the chain guard ( The reduced head is for chain clearance ) then a thackery washer, plain washer and lock nut is fitted. Since the shoulder is longer than the combined width of the chain guard and swing arm mounting tabs once tightened the mount remains loose enough to pivot without having to undo the locknut and the thackery washer stops it from vibrating. What more do you need?....

....Rod


Bruce Miller
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Say, there seems to be some confusion about what model motorcycle and what model chain guard is being discussed.

Can the OP confirm that he's installing a 650 chain guard (part number?) on a 650 TR6C? Or not?


Originally Posted by Irish Swede
If Trophy Guy had sent a photo of the chain guard I wouldn't have had to interpret his description "front access port."
No such thing exists on an actual 500cc chain guard so I had to think he had described a 650 one.

He's still talking about an "access port," so I still question what chain guard he has (and who supplied it to him).
Again, why did he "powder-coat" it before doing a trial fitting to see if it actually WOULD fit

Hermit, yes. Sometimes we buy the wrong part, or are victims of some sellers who masquerade as "experts" but know
nothing about what they are selling. But we should learn it's the wrong part BEFORE we paint or powcer-coat it!

I currently own THREE 500s, have owned one of them for 48 years, so I am rather familiar with how they are put together.
Rob Moulding's description of how they are SUPPOSED to be mounted is SPOT-ON.


Bruce Miller
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Part numbers for the rear mounting stud, washer and nut are:

F9387 Stepped bolt (changed to 82-9387)

S25-2 Plain washer

14-0302 Nut

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Bruce, I'm currently re installing ( Correctly ) the chain guards on both my 66 Models. My TR6 has a QD wheel so I have never had too hinge the chain guard upwards, my T120R has a bolt up wheel and I wanted the correct assembly to make my life easier. Clearly Triumph dropped the design some time after 66, you will see it listed in at least parts book number 4 and earlier. Ray was recently kind enough to confirm how everything go's together.
http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/772007/all/66-home-market-tr6

Rod


And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth'

An interesting point given recent events.

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Rod, nice thread! Thanks for taking the time to write it all down and take the photos.

Looking through some parts books (FOR 650S):

Parts books 3 & 4 (65 & 66) show the setup you mention: Shouldered bolt (82-4135) with spring washer (82-2277) under the head, and plain washer (S25-13) and self-locking nut (70-5269) at the other end.

Parts books 5 & 6 (67 & 68) show just a plain bolt (97-0590) with a self-locking nut (37-1691).

Parts books 7 & 70 (69 & 70) show a different plain bolt (14-0113) and a different self-locking nut (14-0702).

Parts book 71 (71) shows yet a different plain bolt (14-0206) and different washer (60-2347) and apparently omits the nut in both the illustration and parts list.

Oh, dem changes!

The shouldered bolt looks like a good idea to me, wonder why Triumph changed it?

I think I'm going to order the shouldered bolt & the nut for it and try them out the next time I'm re-assembling in that area.

The good news is that 3 out of 5 suppliers I checked online do carry the 82-4135 shouldered bolt. Price varies wildly, so if you're in the market I'd look around.

Cheers!


Bruce Miller
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Thanks for the many replies confirming my parts book numbers and parts. I was fishing for a simpler front attachment scheme with today's innovative fasteners. For those who questioned the quality of the replacement chain guard, I looked around at the current suppliers and found the exact same part. The giveaway is the rear brace flat bar spot welded to the guard body instead of riveted like the old ones. So everybody has the same thing for sale, probably from the same manufacturing shop, and I'm very glad they have them. The minor difficulty is in the front access port (I don't know what else to call it) to tighten the front mounting bolt. New guards have not correctly located the port, at least mine. The port is cut about 1/2 in. high forcing an angled grip with a socket on the fastener. I chose to put the bolt head instead of the lock nut inside the guard to get a little more chain clearance.

And yes, it is a 650 cc TR6C with a hole in the chain guard. I tried to post a simple 1,000 word picture, but my photo Hosting site is acting up.


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