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#807627 05/03/20 12:00 am
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A few years ago I bought a 1972 650 Trophy. I changed oil and cleaned the crud out of the carburetor and it fired up without any drama, smoke or expensive sounding death rattles. The engine finally found it’s way to the bench and the plan is to try and use the engine more or less the way it is. I have a complete gasket set, valves and guides if necessary. Don’t really want to pull the barrel off or split the cases. One of the bolts that holds the breaker plate and helps anchor the points cover was snapped off and someone “tried” to extract it. I pulled the timing cover off, so it can be clamped down in the mill and I will try my luck at getting what’s left of the bolt out. I’m currently basking in the glory of actually finding the extractor bolt to remove the advance unit!

Anyway.... does anyone out there have any recommendations on what to look for? Any quirks peculiar to 1972? I recall something about the shift detent. Adding a second spring or converting it to a plunger? Any other issues?

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71 and 72 are the best years for 650's in my opinion. The leaf spring in the gearbox isn't as good as a plunger but I wouldn't go changing it until (if ever) it gives you problems. Maybe I've been lucky but the OIF 650's I've owned have run smoother than any dry frame bikes I've had. With a set of decent tires they handle good, too. Get it running and ride it!

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if it has a 5 speed box
early 5 speed gears , introduced in 1971 , were problematic .
i think they had it sorted by 1973 .
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Thanks for the replies and I’m happy to leave the shifter as is. The plan is to assemble it and ride it. Don’t want it to turn into a project because I have enough of those. I shouldn’t be monkeying around with it at all, but it’s something to do while I’m waiting for parts for the things I’m suppose to be doing. I’m assuming it’s a 4 speed, but haven’t ridden it and don’t recall running through the gears. Has decent compression going by feel, but will hook up a gauge.A bore scope didn’t reveal anything, but that’s mostly because it’s a crappy scope. Didn’t see any signs of gouges in the cylinder walls. Some signs of oil coming down one intake, but as previously mentioned, it didn’t smoke.

The previous attempt at the bolt wasn’t as bad as I thought. Someone just started drilling it and hadn’t really beavered anything up yet. Unfortunately the hole is off centre, so I can’t use my smallest extractor. May not matter as the bike came with a box containing a new electronic ignition system, so I can probably just use the other set of threaded holes to anchor the ignition plate.

The AMAL is likely not worth the trouble, so maybe switch to a Mikuni. I would prefer converting it to twin carb, but best to keep it simple and focus on getting it running.

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My ‘72 runs fine on a single AMAL. It came with a Boyer ignition. 2 x 6v coils improved it from 12v coils.

A great handling bike. Cruises at 70mph. Not a lot beyond that without pushing it hard but there is more up to 85mph.

They are fun bikes. Mines a four speed.


'51 C11 in a '54 C10L frame. Back on the road...
'70 Triumph Trophy 500. Next on the bench for a refresh!
'72 Triumph Tiger 650. Back on the road...
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Absolutely nothing against AMAL, it’s just the amount of wear on this one. I have tubs full of AMAL bits, but this is the only Concentric and 90% of what I have is pre monoblock. The desire for twin carbs is basically a hold over from my juvenile delinquent days. This is what came with the bike and will probably just use the existing coils and see how things go. Good that it doesn’t use the advance unit, because it doesn’t look like it’s capable of advancing properly without some surgery. Pazon wouldn’t have been my first choice, but it came with the bike, so price is right. I would have preferred Power Arc, because I have the software and doodad necessary to program it.


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Took another stab at the broken fastener in the timing cover. My smallest extractor in the set I use wouldn’t work because the hole had been drilled off centre. While reading Jon’s 500 thread I noticed he had used a different style of extractor that looked vaguely familiar. Anyway, I found them hiding in the helicoil drawer which I suppose makes sense. Was quite happy when it worked, but when chasing the threads with a tap it quickly became apparent the there was more in there. Luckily the extractor could still bite into the remaining piece without fouling the alloy threads. Made up a new bolt out of some unknown grade of stainless. I would have made 2 , but whatever grade it is, it doesn’t like to be machined.

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I gather some OIF have problems with cracking around the swingarm mount, but mine seems fine in that area. The rear frame rail has been welded (by someone still learning) and has cracked again just a little further along. The other side has cracked in the same area which I assume was in sympathy. Is this another OIF thing? Maybe bent upwards slightly more than it’s supposed to be, but not sure. Unfortunately the same fellow also welded the side stand bracket back on.

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]1B0E7528-C5AC-46A9-88C4-F0D09EE2C413 by First Last, on Flickr

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My '79 T140 broke the frame in the same place. I had it sleeved and welded and it was good to go.

There's nothing wrong with AMAL carbs, buying a new AMAL and keeping a single carb settup could be more cost effective with little difference in power.

Looks like a fun project.


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Pre-units rule!

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I think that the seat rails break there when the rear mudguard hand rail loop is removed ( for missguided aesthetic reasons) and a lardy passenger is put on the pillion seat.


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
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Originally Posted by Tasman
My '79 T140 broke the frame in the same place. I had it sleeved and welded and it was good to go.

There's nothing wrong with AMAL carbs, buying a new AMAL and keeping a single carb settup could be more cost effective with little difference in power.

Looks like a fun project.

I’ll try running it with the existing carb and see what happens. It did start and run ok, but I never rode it and it’s been a while since I peeked inside the thing to check wear. If it does need replacement, definitely no objection to AMAL, just looking for the path of lease resistance (time and money).
Unsure about the fun project part at the moment. One of the exhaust stubs needed a 1/8 of a turn and then it fell out. Measures out like it needs either the threads fixed properly.... or a .030” oversized stub.

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Originally Posted by gavin eisler
I think that the seat rails break there when the rear mudguard hand rail loop is removed ( for missguided aesthetic reasons) and a lardy passenger is put on the pillion seat.

The hand rail was on the bike, although that doesn’t mean to say it has always been on there or it was straight. It did seem odd to me that it broke, was welded and then broke again up stream from that. Anyway it’s re-welded both sides and I took an oxy propane torch to the thing to try and take any stress out of it.

I should apologize now just in case I leave the hand rail off. My lovely bride has gained a couple from the 116 lbs on her wedding day, but definitely not a factor when it comes to frame fractures. 99% of my riding is solo, because I don’t really like riding 2 up with drivers being what they are these days.
There is a possibility I may succumb to the misguided aesthetic thing and I also want to keep it as light as possible. On the flip side there is a possibility I’ll forget about aesthetics all together and just assemble the thing and ride it. Looking at the wheels/rims the other day and although functional, the rims could use replacing and that’s not likely going to happen anytime soon. I’m supposed to be finishing another bike and need to get back to it. The attention deficit thing has been getting out of control lately.

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Originally Posted by Cyborg
I’m supposed to be finishing another bike and need to get back to it. The attention deficit thing has been getting out of control lately.
You're not alone...

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Originally Posted by Magnetoman
Originally Posted by Cyborg
I’m supposed to be finishing another bike and need to get back to it. The attention deficit thing has been getting out of control lately.
You're not alone...

Yes, but you are still way more organized and “thorough” than I am. Things are looking up for me though. Once I recover from a current bout of PTSD, production should increase in leaps and bounds. I just reduced the wood boat inventory by 35’6”. If I can turn that stripping, sanding, staining, painting and varnishing time into something meaningful.... well it opens up a whole world of possibilities

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Originally Posted by Cyborg
While reading Jon’s 500 thread I noticed he had used a different style of extractor that looked vaguely familia


Glad my post contributed to your success in removing what was left of that screw Cyborg ! That type of extractor is the perfect tool for that job.


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project
1971 BSA A65 650 - Project
1972 Norton Commando 750 "Combat"


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At the time, my go to set of extractors was missing the smallest extractor so your post triggered my memory that I had inherited a set like yours from my brother about 5 years ago. Mine were made (I thought) by Blue Point because that’s what it says on the box. There were sold through Snap-on and I bought them back in the dark ages not long after this motorcycle was built. Over the years I would look around to see if I could get a replacement for the missing one, but no luck. Just recently I was watching a YouTube video and the guy was using a set and he mentioned you can get replacements from Rigid Tool. Not sure why I’m telling you this other than I’m happy I don’t have to look at that empty slot in the extractor box anymore. Turns out the original ones I have were actually made by Rigid. Blue Point just put their name on the box.

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Originally Posted by Cyborg
Not sure why I’m telling you this

Well, I'm glad you did as I have never seen extractors like that and I am going to look into acquiring some !


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project
1971 BSA A65 650 - Project
1972 Norton Commando 750 "Combat"


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They are certainly worth having and work for most situations. They have a lot of bite if you drill the broken bolt all the way through and tap the extractor in all the way. The set comes with guides/pilots to make it easier to drill down the centre. If the bolt is broken off below the surface, then these extractors sometimes work better. If below the surface, the tapered ones can come in contact with the exposed threads before they get enough purchase in the broken bolt. Sometimes it’s a bit of a pain removing the broken bolt from the extractor afterwards, but seems a small price to pay if you are saving a priceless artifact.

https://www.ridgid.com/ca/en/10-screw-extractor-set

This one turned out to be relatively straightforward, but still gratifying when it finally unscrews without any drama. That feeling never gets old.

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]8B10D0DC-D1BC-4D59-8024-9C08C9B3E3B2 by First Last, on Flickr

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Originally Posted by Cyborg
https://www.ridgid.com/ca/en/10-screw-extractor-set

This one turned out to be relatively straightforward, but still gratifying when it finally unscrews without any drama. That feeling never gets old.


Yes, I know that feeling well. Thanks for the link...looks like I need to start saving my pennies.


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project
1971 BSA A65 650 - Project
1972 Norton Commando 750 "Combat"


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I have no recollection of what I paid for them, but I was fixing motorcycles for a living at the time, so worthwhile. They do show up on Ebay from time to time. You need to search under Snap-On, Blue Point, and Rigid, because they were sold under all 3 names. The other option is to just buy the two smaller ones. If you bought the smaller replacement pieces, you just get the extractor and the driver, you don’t get the drill bit or drill bit guide. The drill bits are standard sizes and the guides you can make. I don’t recall ever using any of the larger ones on motorcycles.

There is a set of Rigid ones on EBay now, but couldn’t get the link to work. $49.95, but doesn’t come with drill bits and guides.

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Finally got around to fixing the exhaust stub. Machined up an oversized one which doesn’t really give me a warm fuzzy feeling. It’ll have to do because pulling the head and installing a threaded insert is not that high on the list of priorities. Have to add a new carb to the list. Took a closer look at the old one and slide/bore wear suggests it is severely knackered and not worth fixing.

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Andy Hardan is highly recommended.
http://www.amalsleeve.com/index.html

Up your way I think.
I've got a spare set of Concentrics I'm going to send.


1970 T120R - 'Anton'
1970 Commando - 'Bruno'
1967 T120R - 'Caesar'
1968 Lightning - 'Dora'
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Thanks for the link. He’s a little less than a 2hr ride from here... don’t know if I would classify the I5 as a relaxing ride though. Price seems reasonable all things considered. Now thinking I’ll stick with the single carb and see how much I actually ride this thing.

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Not much progress happening here. If I stopped watching the news and spent that time in the shop, then I’d be finished by now. Went to do the final prep for frame painting and realized I forgot about the knackered tank mount. There wasn’t much left holding the tank on. Bent up a new mount and milled in the slot. Shouldn’t be hard to replicate the factory welds. Will use TIG because I need the practice, but MIG would be much easier. Getting set up and staying in position with TIG is more of a challenge for me. Maybe time to add a TIG button to the torch.

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]1DD610D2-3877-4E5F-83C2-19681569001D by First Last, on Flickr

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]B49B3727-6400-48E0-BF9C-E55744E3B9AD by First Last, on Flickr

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Originally Posted by Cyborg
Maybe time to add a TIG button to the torch.
For what it's worth, I can't imagine how much more difficult TIG would be without a foot pedal. I find the process of TIG is quite similar to silver soldering or brazing with an oxyacetylene torch. The major difference is the oxyacetylene torch is moved closer or further away, or moved side-to-side, to control the local heat. However, since the TIG torch has to be kept at pretty much a constant distance from the work, the foot pedal controls the heat. If I have the max. set at, say, 125 Amps and find partway through a weld that it's a bit too much, instead of pulling the torch back and letting the electrons spread out where they're not wanted, backing off the foot pedal lets me keep the torch at the optimum distance.

Sorry if the above repeats what you already know, but it seemed worthwhile for someone else who might be getting into TIG.

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