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#805785 04/18/20 12:23 pm
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Looks like another old brand will be heading east, like AJS, Triumph and now Norton. Sad times. TVS paid 16 milion for the firm. I just hope those ripped off can be repaid the money they lost.


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...torcycle-norton/articleshow/75207574.cms

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leicestershire-52331528

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Considering the bills came it at £40M and counting then the Bank, BDO the tax man and some other secured creditors are the only ones getting their loot back. The pensioners will have to pursue SG hopefully with the help of the Pensions Ombudsman, the suppliers will have to suck it up and people who either paid in full or a deposit for a bike will have to reply on TVS having extra funds put aside.

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Originally Posted by kommando
Considering the bills came it at £40M and counting then the Bank, BDO the tax man and some other secured creditors are the only ones getting their loot back. The pensioners will have to pursue SG hopefully with the help of the Pensions Ombudsman, the suppliers will have to suck it up and people who either paid in full or a deposit for a bike will have to reply on TVS having extra funds put aside.


SG will declare himself bankrupt, and disappear, everyone else can whistle dixie.

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That Hall they bought would be worth a few quid - depending on how much they own of it of course.

Mr Garner already seems to have done the disappearing act bit !! ?

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There is also the matter of the engine rights have been sold, where does that come into this. ??
Did TVS buy the name, or the whole kit and caboodle including manufacturing machinery etc ??

Didn't someone bid big somewhere previously, and found they'd only bought the Bentley (was it ?) name ?
Someone else had the complete rights and manufacturing capability to the actual car....

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Originally Posted by Rohan
That Hall they bought would be worth a few quid - depending on how much they own of it of course.

Mr Garner already seems to have done the disappearing act bit !! ?


Dunno if Garner owned the hall though. It was a bit lavish if he did, why not a much cheaper tin shed on an industrial estate like everyone else ? Perhaps he has done a flit to his African game preserve ?


https://www.superbike.co.uk/article/tvs-prepares-to-buy-norton

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Originally Posted by Rohan
There is also the matter of the engine rights have been sold, where does that come into this. ??
Did TVS buy the name, or the whole kit and caboodle including manufacturing machinery etc ??

Didn't someone bid big somewhere previously, and found they'd only bought the Bentley (was it ?) name ?
Someone else had the complete rights and manufacturing capability to the actual car....


I reckon just the name, there is little else as far as i know, weren't most of the parts made by outside contractors ? TVS are getting the Donington factory up and running again. Garner sold the rights to the 961 engine rights to the Chinese afaik, and the other engines were Aprilia's. The whole thing is a tangled mess. Yes it was VW that bought Bentley and discovered BMW were supplying the engines or something like that.

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TVS have bought no buildings, the sale agreement gives them a license to use the manufacturing facilities for 6 months. So Metro/BDO still own the buildings and no doubt will still have them for sale at some point. As the manufacturing is an assortment of open offices and sheds there will be plenty industrial units locally for TVS to use or they have 6 months to move it all to India.

The sale of the 961 engine rights was undertaken after HRMC had raised the Wind Up Petition, as soon as that was raised all asset sales are null and void. The Chinese will have to take Metro/BDO to court in the UK civil courts to get these rights, proof of payment to a Norton UK bank account will be needed before that even has a chance, not a record of a payment to SG's personal account.

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Seems Mr Garner may have made some potentially shady deals prior to going into Receivership.
Selling bits and pieces of the Company as well as possible Pension scam , the news doesn't seem to be getting any better for him.. Any more truth to this?


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If you want to read what Stuart was up to then these are a good start, more still to come out. These are UK published so open to libel, the author has done all the checks against being taken to court for libel and been given the ok by his lawyers to publish.

https://www.superbike.co.uk/article/norton-was-it-a-fraud-from-the-start

https://www.superbike.co.uk/article/norton-was-it-a-fraud-from-the-start-part-two

https://www.superbike.co.uk/article/norton-creditors-report-how-much-money-is-owed

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I see TVS already have a bike earmarked to have the Norton name slapped on the tank. Its a big adventure/trailie in the mold of the Triumph tigers or the Honda Africa twin. It will be as much a Norton as i am though.

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Garner should be found and thrown in the moors at Dartmoor and hope the Hound Of Baskervilles gets him!!!
He is despicable

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Originally Posted by bon
Looks like another old brand will be heading east, like AJS, Triumph and now Norton. Sad times. TVS paid 16 milion for the firm. I just hope those ripped off can be repaid the money they lost.


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...torcycle-norton/articleshow/75207574.cms

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leicestershire-52331528

AJS are still British owned and run, they use a contract manufacturing plant in the far east
Triumph are still British owned and run, they have manufacturing plants around the world


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Originally Posted by Andy Higham
Originally Posted by bon
Looks like another old brand will be heading east, like AJS, Triumph and now Norton. Sad times. TVS paid 16 milion for the firm. I just hope those ripped off can be repaid the money they lost.


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...torcycle-norton/articleshow/75207574.cms

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leicestershire-52331528

AJS are still British owned and run, they use a contract manufacturing plant in the far east
Triumph are still British owned and run, they have manufacturing plants around the world


British owned and run, but not manufactured. If the Chinese bought Harley Davidson and moved production to china, would they still be an American bike ?

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If you took out all the Chinese out of a HD, would you still have HD ?
But we diverge...

What happened to all those little "Norton Villiers" tiddlers that were appearing all over UK fleabay a few years back.

Andover Norton (?) took legal action to stop them, but did they have any legal basis to be using that name ??
What was the upshot of that ?

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Very good article over at ADV-Rider forum. written by Mike Botan Norton's Demise

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Its not up-to-date enough to consider that what the impact of the 16 million squids will be though, and how this will all pan out.

If the pension funds simply have shares in Norton, then surely thats a matter of the pension funds manager being unwise in their choice of investments.
Or is Mr Garner the actual fund(s) manager ?
If anybody is watching, most stocks have taken a huge dive lately.
And worse could be yet to come...

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As trustee of the pension fund Stuart Garner by UK law was prohibited from investing the pension funds in his own companies. This was due to Robert Maxwell who did exactly the same.back in the 80's .

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Given the long, very long, history of financial misappropriation now associated with this company name, I am amazed that anyone would now want to pay anything for it.
Ignoring the NVT corporate shambles, anyone remember the Phillippe LeRoux fiasco that preceded the Wildrose Ventures version (ordered to stop trading by the Canadian stock exchange FFS), even before the Stuart Garner led criminality.

BTW the pension saga was led by SG who had two 'independent advisers' that sought and actioned 'pension investment' into the corporate mess, that meant he personally did not completely act criminally, however both these 'advisors' (who were not truly independent) were successfully prosecuted by the financial watchdog under criminal acts and I believe at least one now is a guest of Her Majesty.

Sorry, but it's now time to consign the name history, forever unless you intend to produce Manxes or poorly manufactured Commandos.

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Blimey, your 'justice' system works quickly, out here they'd still be arguing about a court date.
And if he'd donated to the govnmts re-election campaign fund, he'd be untouchable...

Perhaps this all goes to show that Company names are bigger than any of the individuals involved.
When you see the convolutions that Norton and Indian and Matchless and ExcelsiorHenderson etc etc
have been through in the past few decades, this is a popular sport !

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...20M Dollars is cheap to buy a brand; an engine design; a factory in England and the nice old House. A supermarket is even more expensive...
How is that?
Why not other UK brand or millionaire bought it? Is kind of a deal that we do not know under the table?
Little by little Chinese and Indians are having the blueprints and machinery to build big engines but these motorcycles would finish like "generic" motorcycles. Like most big brands anyway.

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TVS did not buy any buildings, they have still to be sold, TVS bought Norton and 6 months use of the buildings.

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Originally Posted by Twin Pot Phil
Sorry, but it's now time to consign the name history, forever unless you intend to produce Manxes or poorly manufactured Commandos.


No, cannot agree, loads of brands have murky pasts and questionable histories. Delorean cars have a cult following even thought their builder had a dodgy past. There is hardly a major German brand, from Hugo Boss to BMW, Krupp's, IG Farben etc etc who were not involved in the mass murders of ww2 and people don't seem to mind.

The fact a wonderful historic brand like Norton was allowed to briefly fall into the hands of a complete chancer, should not be its death sentence. Trumph for much of the 70's and 80's were a bit of a joke, especially compared to the Japanese competition, they were outclassed in everyway, but when John Bloor got his hands on it, he completely transformed it into a major name once again in the motorcycle world.

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Did they buy an engine design? From the article it said they bought the engines from MCT. Although later after a court battle, SG got the supply list and drawings.
I suspect nobody else bought it because building motorcycles is like building a winery, spend a lot of money to make a little.

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SG bought Norton US including Kenny Deers design, they got MCT to productions that design, so thanks goes to Kenny for the 961.

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