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Dear all,

Thank you for letting me join this great forum.
I have for many years been pondering about building a British bike, especially a Rickman scrambler. I have a friend who will either weld or braze a frame for me. He is very skilled and works with underwater welding at oil rigs, stainless in the food industry and so on.
The issue is I don't have any drawings or blueprints of the frame. I would very much like some help with that, if possible? Thinking about 650 Unit for the powerplant. I'm normally a Vespa guy and Alfa Romeo when it comes to cars, but I want a proper bike.

Thank you all and happy Easter,

Ferrum Lynx.


/Markus Rasmussen
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You probably need to be talking to these guys ?

https://robbreport.com.au/motors/au...e-McQueens-Metisse-Triumph-desert-racer/
http://www.metisse-motorcycles.com/part/

I'd be surprised if actual blueprints were available ?
The usual tactic is just to find what ye want, and make a jig from it to make a copy.

I've known of skilled folks to just generate the required dimensions from a photograph, and
working existing components into a chalk outline on the floor !
Thats how the design may have been arrived at in the first place ??

[Linked Image from robbreport.com.au]
[Linked Image from metisse-motorcycles.com]

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I did send an email to Rickman, but alas. It would just be nice to have a something to start building from. The whole point is to make the frame at the workshop here.


/Markus Rasmussen
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Terry Weedy, Avery products, still makes Rickman stuff.
http://www.terryweedy.com/metisse.html


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
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I doubt any manufacturer would provide blueprints for their products. No company wants their intellectual property to land in the wrong hands, Do you thing that Triumph would hand over the blueprints for their current range?


BSA B31 500 "Stargazer"
Greeves 200 "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360
GM500 sprint bike "Deofol"
Rickman Jawa 500 "Llareggub"
Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 & '36 OK Supreme
Kawasaki ZZR1400 "Kuro no senshi"
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Why would someone already making replica's send you are drawing when they can sell you one.

Either buy a frame or borrow one to copy.

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I would of course be willing to buy the blueprints, I don't expect them to be free of charge.


/Markus Rasmussen
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So you go to Metisse, they sell you a copy of the blueprints, you take the blueprints to a factory in China and produce Metisse frames at half the cost. Metisse go out of business because they can't sell their frames.


BSA B31 500 "Stargazer"
Greeves 200 "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360
GM500 sprint bike "Deofol"
Rickman Jawa 500 "Llareggub"
Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 & '36 OK Supreme
Kawasaki ZZR1400 "Kuro no senshi"
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Yes, that was my plan all along. I asked them now if I can buy a frame that is not brazed so I can do it myself.


/Markus Rasmussen
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Originally Posted by Andy Higham
So you go to Metisse, they sell you a copy of the blueprints, you take the blueprints to a factory in China and produce Metisse frames at half the cost. Metisse go out of business because they can't sell their frames.

i am sure if there was a demand for them that would have happened already!

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The original Rickman frame was a pre-unit BSA frame with some lugs removed and gussets added as necessary. When they started making there own frame they still used the same basic geometry. You could start with the geometry of of any known and successful dirt bike frame and use what ever material you want and construction methods.


Laurence Luce
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Why not just buy a frame?


BSA B31 500 "Stargazer"
Greeves 200 "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360
GM500 sprint bike "Deofol"
Rickman Jawa 500 "Llareggub"
Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 & '36 OK Supreme
Kawasaki ZZR1400 "Kuro no senshi"
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I could just buy a frame of course but I would like to do as much in house as possible.


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You can still buy kits of parts to build a light aircraft.
Perhaps you are trying the wrong project ?

Buying the blueprints for a Rickman from Rickmans is like buying the business from them. ??
How many £millions do you think you should pay ?
All the frame tubes cut to size/shape/angle is about the same thing.
Take them to China and have many more made....

They could put a Norton 961 in it, they have the engine rights ? !!!

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If you want to do as much in house as possible, why not draw your own and make the tubes? You already know what the frame looks like and details such as headstock angle, wheel base can be found on the web and you have a motor so you know where the mounts should be.
This is what I am doing with a modified version of my aluminum Wenco frame to build an A65 flat track bike. I have a DiAcro tube bender but I am looking at a company that does CNC bending and laser tube cutting to make the bent tubes in the rare case others might be interested.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]

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Rohan:

Not sure why you are choosing to be like that, but okay. I would just like to build the frame myself, I am one guy not some factory or starting to set up shop, that is not even possible here in Denmark, they would never be approved for the road.


DMadigan:

That is not a bad idea, if I can just figure out all the angles and lenghts so long as it looks like a Metisse whick is the design I really like.


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Surely you can see it from Rickmans viewpoint though ? As pointed out by more than just me here !
Giving away their blueprints would be like Coca Cola giving away the (secret) recipe for Coca Cola.

And as I also pointed out, you could scale your drawing off the photo above and the frame picture.
Finding such a bike to grab a few measurements off would make it about inch perfect.

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Rohan already gave you a nice profile picture. If you put it into Photo Editor you can create an edge picture like this:
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
Then import that into a CAD program and draw over the image to create the profile drawing. I used AutoCAD2000 which can actually produce a 3D tube frame although a 3D centerline drawing is all you really need. You will need some other information on the width of the frame. You might consider buying the bodywork from Métisse and take dimensions off that.
The sliders appear to be Ceriani off road. I would change to a disc front end.

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Yes of course, but I thought a self builder kit of some sorts as you see with boats and that sort of thing. Where you buy the plans and materials from Rickman.



I will sure try and recreate that, thank you for the help, DMadigan!


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The closest your going to get if you can’t find another frame to copy is to buy a frame and build a copy from that.

My 2c is that by the time you’ve spent a fortune on decent bending equipment, made a jig, bought all the tubing etc etc etc you’ll give it up as a bad job and use the already done frame.

I’ve got 2 lengths of T45 tube at work (about 9m in total of different size) for the A65 racebike project. That involves very little in the way of bending to complete what I need (chopping out from an original frame) but even still it won’t be easy.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

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Fair enough, thanks!

I'll contact them and see what kind of prices they have before Brexit goes through and the taxes goes up.


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The biggest problem you will have is getting the tubing jigged correctly. The easiest way to do this is if you have a frame that fits your engine, use that to build a jig from angle iron or whatever cheap steel you have. Use a blank set of cases to drill holes for the engine mounts and the frame for the swingarm and headstock, put rods through and weld the jig pieces using the frame as a jig for the jig. Even if the headstock is not in the correct location or angle you can just reposition the frame in the jig to get it there. This will ensure the heastock and swingarm are as much in alignment as your reference frame.

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For my latest attempt at frame building I took inspiration from Tony Dawson's Scitsu frames
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]68548883_2851412968205558_1660346017746255872_n by Sigma Projects, on Flickr


BSA B31 500 "Stargazer"
Greeves 200 "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360
GM500 sprint bike "Deofol"
Rickman Jawa 500 "Llareggub"
Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 & '36 OK Supreme
Kawasaki ZZR1400 "Kuro no senshi"
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Wow, that is some build!


/Markus Rasmussen

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