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I have a 1967 A65 that I need to remove the AAU to access the oil pump. I have never done this and after reviewing the Manual, I have the following questions:
1. How/where should the point plate be match marked to the aau? Sharpie pen, scribe?
2. Should the AAU notch be aligned vertically? can the notch be seen with the point plate on the AAU?
3. Is 5/16-24 the correct bolt thread size to insert into the AAU and tap? how long should the bolt be?
Thank you!

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Curious if you have considered installing one of the electronic ignitions (like a Boyer) when going back together. The 2 camps on this topic used to be a fun discussion, but I believe there is no argument on easier stating, better advance/retard action.
I bring it up because a ‘67 may still have the earlier points plate with impossible to adjust #2 points. Always happy to add confusion....... ;~)


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A Pazon in the future, but current points/aau are in great working condition

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Originally Posted by KC in S.B.
Curious if you have considered installing one of the electronic ignitions (like a Boyer) when going back together. The 2 camps on this topic used to be a fun discussion, but I believe there is no argument on easier stating, better advance/retard action.
I bring it up because a ‘67 may still have the earlier points plate with impossible to adjust #2 points. Always happy to add confusion....... ;~)

You are of course correct , there is no argument "
those black box things are NOT ORIGINAL!
I understand they are mentioned in the book of Leviticus, or is Deuteronomy, under the list of ABOMINATIONS just below women having short hair and flat shoes

Got it:
Leviticus 185 verse 76
Thou shalt not modify thy BSAs primary ignition circuit , in no wise shalt thou do so or cause thy servant to do so as such things are detestable in the sight of the manufacturer as by so doing thou hast created an hybrid similar unto the Nephilim for whos sake , and account of their manifest sins did God pour out rain upon the earth that they might be washed away. He also promised fire upon the transgressors in generations yet to come. Doth the scripture speak in vain?

Last edited by Ignoramus; 03/29/20 6:28 pm.

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There's really no effective way to mark the position of the AAU; you have to suss it out when you go to reinstall. There's help here in doing that when you get there.

I think the bolt to pull may be 5/16" X 26, but you only have to get a few threads engaged, so you can get by with a 5/16" X 24. That hole is not used for anything else, so don't worry too much about buggering the threads. I thread in a long bolt (like 4"), then put a pair of curved-jaw Vise-Grips around the bolt loosely, then slide the Vise-Grips out sharply against the head of the bolt. This will pull the AAU off its taper.


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Originally Posted by Ignoramus
You are of course correct , there is no argument "
those black box things are NOT ORIGINAL!
I understand they are mentioned in the book of Leviticus, or is Deuteronomy, under the list of ABOMINATIONS just below women having short hair and flat shoes

Got it:
Leviticus 185 verse 76
Thou shalt not modify thy BSAs primary ignition circuit , in no wise shalt thou do so or cause thy servant to do so as such things are detestable in the sight of the manufacturer as by so doing thou hast created an hybrid similar unto the Nephilim for whos sake , and account of their manifest sins did God pour out rain upon the earth that they might be washed away. He also promised fire upon the transgressors in generations yet to come. Doth the scripture speak in vain?

Is it heretical though, to install the later-model (i.e. 6CA) AAU and breaker assembly? KC is right, '67 is the last year for the 4CA unit, which is an ABOMINATION in itself.


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yep Mark u are right but this ***ing lockdown is getting to me hence the somewhat spurious post ..........my attempt at humor


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If you're having to post questions about removing points & AAU having never done it before then I recommend you get yourself ready for a steep learning curve.

The points fitted to A65's around 1967 were the 4CA type which were notoriously inaccurate and led to different spark timings between cylinders. This I believe is one of the reasons A65's gained a bad reputation for drive side pistons seizing and conrods breaking. The later 6CA points plate was better but requires a high degree of mechanical finesse together with accurate timing equipment to get it working spot on.

My personal preference is to fit an electronic ignition like Wassel/Boyer/Pazon etc. These are pretty much fit and forget and lets you spend time on other areas needing attention.


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Doing it from scratch.
Set crank position with a timing plug in the full advance hole, or degree disc.
Loose fit the AR mech and cam locked in full advance postion,
Fit the points plate with the adjuster slot screw in the middle.
Put a cigarette paper between a points pair.
Now the fiddly bit.
Remember, as the engine rotates the way of the wheels, the idler pinion which is on the end of the AR mech rotates the opposite way, Anti clock as you look from the TS . This is crucial.

Fit the AR mech and twist it anti clock until the chosen set of points just releases the paper.
Give the AR mech a tap with a hammer and drift to seat it on the taper,
The timing is not set yet, but it should be close if the Mech went on squarely.
Release the lock on the AR mech and fit the centre bolt with a dab of blue locktite.

Now you should be in the range for timing , recheck with strobe.

I have had very bad experiences with this stuff, DPOs break the taper by knocking the AR mech sideways, I have even seen this advice here a few times.
Once the taper is wallered out by a few sideways skelps getting it back on true and permanent may be a thing of the past. Make sure the tapers are in decent condition.
For this one reason alone EI makes a lot of sense.

Last edited by gavin eisler; 03/29/20 9:11 pm.

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As far as I know, there isn't a locating peg for the AAU (like there is in a Triumph) so it's a free for all when you come to assembly.

Before you disassemble:

I'd suggest the best you could do would be to set the engine at a known position (say fully advanced on the right cylinder using rotor/pointer - then take a photo of the points set up.

Then you can re-assemble within reasonable adjustment to the original situation.

This will only be rough and ready, but better than a random chance. Then set timing accurately from there.

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To remove the AAU I use a short steel dowel ( 1.670" in length) & just under 1/4 inch in diameter (.247"). I insert the dowel into the AAU & then screw in a 5/16-24 bolt ( although it's a Brit bolt & actually measures .309 rather than .312") against the previously inserted dowel which usually pops the AAU right out.

re: Leviticus 185 verse 76
Good one Ignoramus, as a dedicated points guy I got a kick out of that !

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The expected quote from Lannis,........... “points will get you home...” He must be taking a nap.


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Originally Posted by KC in S.B.
The expected quote from Lannis,........... “points will get you home...” He must be taking a nap.

Nope, I dropped out of "Category 5" on the "Bonzo Holder Scale of BSA Purity" many years ago. I got to where I didn't like points. I leave them on my singles and magneto bikes, because my main knock on points is that you can only get 2 of these 3 things correct on a twin-cylinder bike:

1) Point gap
2) Dwell
3) Timing

One of them has to be compromised on one set of points every time. In addition, because of the rubbing block, the points start going out of adjustment the first time you turn the engine over, and every turn after that

Boyer on the Firebird, Pazon on the Norton, Dyna III on the Guzzi SP ... the rest have magnetos and I like magnetos. Haven't had one fail yet.

But when I DO have to pull a set of points, I have the little slide hammer meant for that very operation, and it works a treat every time ....

Now I'm going back to sleep, quit talking so loud and get those kids out of my yard .....

Lannis


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Yeah,......... I miss Bonzo.


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Originally Posted by Ignoramus
yep Mark u are right but this ***ing lockdown is getting to me hence the somewhat spurious post ..........my attempt at humor

Your attempt worked. I got it, and responded in kind.

Originally Posted by koan58
As far as I know, there isn't a locating peg for the AAU (like there is in a Triumph) so it's a free for all when you come to assembly.

Before you disassemble:

I'd suggest the best you could do would be to set the engine at a known position (say fully advanced on the right cylinder using rotor/pointer - then take a photo of the points set up.

Then you can re-assemble within reasonable adjustment to the original situation.

This will only be rough and ready, but better than a random chance. Then set timing accurately from there.

That's a very good idea koan. I never think of photos because I converted to EI before there were digital cameras. The best way to set the crank at fully advanced is via the slot in the flywheel; because of the larger diameter (than the alt. rotor), this is more precise.


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To get everything back in roughly the same place use a sharpie pen and draw a line from the points plate to the outes cover .
When the ink is dry scribe a line through it
Do some thing simialr with the cam once the points are removed.
After you have done it a few times this will not be necessary but for now it will make you feels a little more confident.
A ong 14mm bolt rounded at the end and screwed down the spark plug hole till it touched the piston will make sure the crank has not moved.
Thus everything will go back the same way it came off.
You can also mark the points and the points plate the same way they will need to be reset but should go back close enough for the engine to fire


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( i dont have a bsa aau to look at , so this is from memory )

most points cams have 2 marks .
a big slot , before the cam peak , and a smaller struck-mark at the peak .
the big slot location can be used for general static assembly .
slot at around 12 o'clock corresponds with timing side points ...
slot at around 6 o'clock corresponds with drive side points ... ( either set of points will fire either cylinder
but this is how the factory set it up )
the slot ajustment does the final timing .

put the bike on the center stand so that the rear wheel is off the ground .
Remove the spark plugs , points cover and crank shaft location cover .
with the bike in 3rd or 4th gear and rotate the wheel in direction on travel ( same as engine rotation )
note when the cam slot is at or near 12 o'clock . .. this will correspond with the
right or timimg side at or near full advance .
Verify the points slot position ... with a stop in the flywheel .

scribe the hold down bolts in the points plate ajustment slots .

the whole aau assembly can now be removed and replaced in the full slack ( retard position )

once its all reassembled in the slack position and with the piston stopped at full advance .
the aau can be statically timed ... with the ignition on ... and spark plug out and grounded .
by hand twisting the advance cam only ... the coil corresponding with the points will spark ... as the
aau is sprung ... to its full advance stop .

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Mark Z "That's a very good idea koan. I never think of photos because I converted to EI before there were digital cameras. The best way to set the crank at fully advanced is via the slot in the flywheel; because of the larger diameter (than the alt. rotor), this is more precise."

Yes Mark, I'd agree the flywheel slot is more accurate than the rotor mark/pointer. I'm not a BSA expert so wasn't sure they had either, or both.
In practicality, my idea only requires an engine position that can be reliably reproduced, so it could be a simple piston stop. As long as that position is used for the pre-disassembly photo, and then used for the assembly situation, it will do.
Of course this assumes that the timing was reasonably correct in the first place!

Likewise, I departed from points to EI in 1981, though I've enjoyed (endured?) points on friends' bikes until recently. I know there are many who prefer them, fair enough, and the justifications are all too often derived from a poor charging system (that will open a can-o-worms!).

Back to the digital camera, what a useful tool in so many ways in our field.
Years ago I took hi-res distant photos of my featherbed frame. Scaled and printed full size (many A$ sheets) and stuck on a board, it has enabled me to produce custom wiring looms for several Tritons remotely, never actually meeting the client.
Occasionally a photo from the client would help, with a measuring stick, to show where the battery was mounted, for example, or what switches were being used and where.

It worked out very well. I would definitely recommend any person dismantling a bike to take MORE photos than they can imagine necessary! Otherwise it will be the bit they didn't capture that will be the bit they need later! It's also labour-saving if you put each day's pics in a separate folder, but not essential.

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Factory tool - 5/16"-24 thread bolt, rod 2" unthreaded, 1" #10-32 thread.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]

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Originally Posted by DMadigan
Factory tool - 5/16"-24 thread bolt, rod 2" unthreaded, 1" #10-32 thread.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]

Pre c1970 I believe the AAU was BSF


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I,m sure I marked mine with a pin punch before I had Boyer fitted.
as for the removal I got a slightly longer screw and tapped it sharply with a toffee hammer , not the correct way I know but worked for me not having the factory puller


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Allan commented "Pre c1970 I believe the AAU was BSF


Pre c1970 I believe the AAU was BSF[/quote]

ah now that (finally) explains why the one i got years ago will not screw into my 70 .........clearly the pinhead who supplied it didnt know there was a difference.........but hey nor did i ....i just assumed the end thread in the AAU was buggered and didnt even bother to try running a tap through it .....engineers can be lazy sometimes

all i have ever done since failing with the tool is give the (hardened) cam a gentle clout with an aluminum dolly that will break the short steep taper every time in my experience......but saying that ive been a fitter turner all my working life so i have an idea how to clout it ......probably those who dont have the "feel" for such things should just use a tool to avoid the possibility of damage or the possibility of clouting it too hard if the taper is frozen due to not having been released in 30 years.


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back in the day , shop mechanics were known to
just remove the center bolt and use it as the removal tool
by pulling it most of the way , but not all the way out
and rapping the aau cam/taper assembly with the center bolt
lightly sideways from multiple directions ... with the handle of a screwdriver , till the taper released .
( quick easy , whats the problem ? )

this works , but each time it's done it lightly damages the center bolt threads
and the larger threads meant to be used for removal ... so if you dont know the complete history of
where that aau has been ... the threads may have been buggered in the past by anyone taking a shortcut .

Last edited by quinten; 03/31/20 8:05 pm.

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