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#789196 11/05/19 12:04 am
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I came across a old chopper I did in 1980. Still just like I built it. Same paint and all. I looked in the tank and saw the old Kreme tank liner I had put in it when I noticed toe tank had a pinhole after I had just had it painted. It was a welded mounting tab
Now the question is how to I get it out without destroying the old paint ?
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Hi Morri, Cool bike! Are you the new owner now?

I've found Kreem paint protector works well against many solvents.

Kreem tank liner is basically PVC if I recall correctly. The easiest to dissolve. They say acetone or MEK will dissolve it.

For certain Kreem protectant will stop damage from acetone. I don't know about MEK.

Kreem paint protector I use 3 coats, letting dry a day between coats. Then wrap with Glad wrap to protect the protector from scratches. It dissolves instantly with water or sweat. I put some Glad wrap over protectant to keep it from peeling/chipping. Secured Glad wrap with some masking tape.

I had rust pin hole on upper surface of my Tiger tank. It had no liner. I cleaned with sheet rock screws & solvent, then rinsed with gasoline. Finally a few final rinses with acetone. It did not get under paint, but I put protectant over pin hole & blew it in with my mouth. Let dry overnight. Then the 3 coats over that. So 4 days just to do protectant.

I sealed with Caswell clear because I wanted it to look stock, & also to see if rust continued to expand under liner. No further rusting is seen. Fixed leak. Saved paint.
Don


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You would have to meticulously tape off and "bag" the exterior of the tank. It can be done. I have had some good luck with this kit several times- POR-15 Tank Repair I have already, after stripping, filled a tank with drywall screws, nuts and bolts, wrapped the tank in a bunch of old blankets, completely duct-taped and put it in the dryer for a "gentle" "no heat" cycle and let it "polish" the inside of the tank. Then re-seal equally taping off meticulously. (I can't take credit for the dryer idea, heard that years ago, somewheres) I am not a fan of "Kreme". By the way, some caution using POR or anything that works these days. It works because it's nasty. I see you're in NJ and the weather has changed in the last weeks. Don't do this work inside, and even outside, wear a mask or respirator/safety glasses/ nitrile gloves. (it has isocyanates.) POR reluctantly comes off your skin with laquer thinner, kind of. I sprayed it a few times, reluctantly, but the result was good and lasting.

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Don beat me to the post, he mentioned Caswell's tank sealers. I have used this product with success as well. It's a good product. Prep is always the key to a good lasting finish/success. Caswell's Tank Sealers

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Dons pretty much onto it. Both Acetone and MEK will dissolve Kreem but it can turn into a sticky mess thats a pain to remove completely. I've had much better luck with Methylene Chloride based paint stripper, it sticks to the inside of the tank far better and holds onto the dissolved liner. It's also neutralised by water so after draining you can hit the inside with a pressure washer to remove the rest.

Rod


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Hi R Moulding, I wonder if Methylene Chloride would go through Kreem paint protector? I have no idea.

How do you successfully protect the paint using Methylene Chloride?
Don


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Hello Don,

Firstly to somewhat answer your earlier question. One of the two bottles in the Kreem tank liner kit, I think they call it "Tank prep B" is MEK. Logic would therefor dictate that the Kreem paint mask is suitable for use with MEK.

I do not know if the Kreem mask will dissolve with Methylene Chloride, if it were available in NZ I would probably use it as a "belts and braces" addition to the process. However I have removed Kreem liners with both Acetone and MEK and I can tell you it's a [***] of a task. The term dissolve can only be used loosely and the tank will need to be vigorously agitated in order for the liner to come away and then it will turn into a sticky, stringy gel that is even more hassle to get out of the tank. Since both acetone and MEK are liquid all this shaking about can cause it to escape from the tank and both substances have the ability to creep so if they find an edge or flaw in your masking it's all over.

If you use a Methylene Chloride based paint stripper it comes in a gel form that is designed to cling, this removes the need to agitate the tank and the chances of spillage. I plug the fuel tap holes and add 2 or 3 litres then put a piece of gaffer tape over the filler with a pin [***] in it so the tank can vent. The tank can be rolled and left in different positions about half hour a time. Then drain excess from tap holes and pressure wash the inside. Since water neutralises the Methylene Chloride the paint surface remains undamaged. I then examine the inside of the tank with an endoscope and repeat as necessary.

Rod (Redmoggy)


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I’ve used paint stripper bu it was a gooey mess. How do you get all around the inside of the tank ? Plus when I used paint stripper it just took a little off then had repeat over and over. But this was a tank it was old car paint. But it was a need.

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Hi Morri, I've never used paint stripper on inside of tank, but have on several frames, fenders, outside of tanks. A huge gooey mess is expected in my experience. The number of attempts depended on the paint type & coats. Seems some of the most checked & crappy paint removed the hardest.

I don't know how to spread it on inside. I'd expect you'd want to use at least a quart for that small tank. At least with paint remover or Acetone etc. you are not on such a time crunch.

I found with the Caswell liner you needed to roll tank very, very slowly to get it to spread all over. Was very hard as I expected. I used a large rubber stopper from Ace Hardware in filler neck & could inspect progress. My tank has center bolt & the center tube was especially hard to cover. But the slow turning did it. I had about 2qt sealer in tank. I could have gotten away with 1 quart maybe, but I don't know. Costly & a lot of waste, but I only had one shot.

I knew from prior tank cleaning how hard it is to get the kreem cleaning acid to spread over inside. So expected problems with the sealer. But at least the sealer has a very strong infinity for metal so it wants to stick if you can get it there.
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So, the object is to save a 40 year old paint job? Wow, that's a tall order. Considering the comments above about what a royal pain in the ass it is, it just might be easier to strip the tank is an oven at about 700 degrees, then try to duplicate the paint work. There are companies who do this kind of work and it's reasonable.
Cheers,
Bill
PS I know....spoken like a painter.....sorry...
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Morri, both you and Don are trying to compare apples and oranges. Unlike paint your tank liner will dissolve into the paint stripper, it does not require shaking, scraping, hand full's of screws or any other form of mechanical removal process. As I stated above, add at least two litres and roll the tank slowly into different positions. The reason for using a large volume of stripper is so that it can flow around the inside of the tank. You do not need to physically spread it. Yes you are likely to find a few stubborn spots but since paint stripper is reusable you just pour the previously drained excess back in and repeat. You asked how to do the job and I've answered best I can based on having done several. Now it's up to you.

Bill, couldn't agree more Mate.

Rod

Last edited by R Moulding; 11/07/19 4:57 pm.

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March 2019 the EPA said Methylene Chloride will be banned from consumers...I noticed it's off the shelf in places like Lowe's.....What Bill HT says makes sense, heat ..Personally, I don't like the idea of riding a bike with non metal repairs on the fuel tank..


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RM, if "your tank liner will dissolve into the paint stripper" how can you say "paint stripper is reusable you just poor the previously drained execs back in" ? There are no "execs" as the liner is dissolved into the stripper.
Caswell is a special marine grade epoxy, much different than Kreem. A lot of fibreglass boats started leaking when they introduced ethanol into petrol so they had to come up with a solution. Probably cheaper to buy it through a marine supplier.
From PubChem: "it is widely used as a solvent, a paint stripper, and for the removal of caffeine from coffee and tea. It has a role as a polar aprotic solvent, a carcinogenic agent and a refrigerant. Vapors are narcotic in high concentrations."
Decaf coffee anyone?

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Bloody heck, this isn't hard.

Morri did not ask how to remove Caswell, he asked how to remove Kreem! I have no idea how you would remove Caswell.

The liner dissolves not the stripper, therefore after your first round you will still have two litres of stripper minus any residue that does drain out of the tank. The active ingredient is still active therefore you can pour that excess back into the tank to remove any stubborn remains. As I said I've done this at least three times on tanks lined with Kreem, PetSeal and POR15 including my own that I saved the paint finish on.

Please feel free to continue filling tanks with MEK and screws and shaking them around.

Rod

PS. Spelling mistake fixed, however the meaning should have been pretty obvious!

Last edited by R Moulding; 11/07/19 4:58 pm.

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Caswell is located about 12 miles down the road from me..It's a plain steel sided building with not much of a sign out in front..It's a somewhat messy place inslde, but they are friendly....A kit to do a typical bike tank is $40 plus shipping... I don't use sealers...
Caswell description of their product...
Quote


Phenol Novolac Epoxies are a new breed of chemical resistant materials, able to withstand permanent immersion of many harsh solvents, fuels and oils. This Epoxy has much better bond strength than single component products, with strengths of up to 3000 PSI, and this higher strength reduces the need for a clinically clean surface, as the epoxy actually prefers to bond to a rough rusty surface. Our new phenol novolac is more thixotropic, which means it 'hangs' on the tank walls during the coating process. This gives a thicker overall coating. There is more volume of material in the kit to allow for this.


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"I don't know what the world may need
But a V8 engine is a good start for me
Think I'll drive to find a place, to be surly"
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