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Other small progress items: I inserted new races into the steering head. I'm going to stick with the ball bearings:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I also stripped down the ignition coil holder prior to repainting:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I then realized I had not put the oil junction back on while the engine was out of the frame. Sadly, the frame gets in the way of adding it now. I don't need to entirely remove the frame to get it in, I can move the engine a little in the frame to get this part in. D'oh!

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On every A65 I've ever had, the oil junction block mounts up, and bolts in, with the motor completely in place....check again before you go shifting things around!

Lannis


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Lannis #894663 11/02/22 10:27 pm
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+1
I do not know what I'm doing as much as Lannis, and I managed to get the block in place - it's tight, and that bolt you said you were missing is special, if I recall - it's a really thin head.

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Oh well, too late. I already shifted it a little. I'll get the new bolt early next week and report back fully then.

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Regarding the oil feed junction block fastener. It looks like you have a -70 engine, and the correct bolt should be 5/16 UNC x 7/8".
Regards.


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Hey guys,

I'm looking to reassemble the triple trees onto the headstock. They are Betor units and not the BSA originals. The bearings are open ball-bearings-in-grease types.

The whole headstock, once assembled, in clamped in place by a top-hat shaped nut with cutouts along its perimeter:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

This nut came off easily enough with a drift, hammer, and gentle pushing on one of the cutouts. But now I want to rebuild it to, and I don't know what I need to torque this but down to, or indeed what to use to torque it down. Any ideas?

Cheers

- Mark

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The slotted nut should not be tight, it simply takes up any end float in the bearings and no more, finger tight, so that there is no shake and no drag on the bearings, it is held in position by the top yoke which should have some sort of pinch/ clmp arrangement to grip the slotted nut.


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yes , what Gavin said .
look at the 4 notches , at the bottom "brim" of the slotted top hat .
These should be accessible ,? ( for a tool or a punch )
for tightening and loosening the ball bearings , after the top yolk is in place ?
...( and the top yolk cinch Bolt can squish the slots together to lock )

Tighten the top hat , lightly , till it no longer works smoothly ( this is edging into the too tight zone )
bearing action will feel or begin to feel "notchy"
... back the nut off a 16th or a little more ... just until smoothness returns to the bearing action
... then lock it down with the top-yolk cinch-Bolt .

... ( dont know the thread count ) but if the threads were ,
for instance at 16 TPI ... ( 22.5°) or 1/16th of a turn is .003" .
This would probably be a good place to start . ( you're going by feel ) ,
but you can also use the knowledge that the threads tpi were will loosen at a set rate , per angle of rotation

Last edited by quinten; 11/08/22 5:21 pm.
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Thanks! That certainly jives with my experience taking it off, which was just a few gentle taps of a drift on one of the cutouts on the flange.

Last edited by Psychopasta; 11/08/22 5:45 pm.
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OK, made a lot of progress on the headstock today. This is the bottom yoke, dust seal and bottom bearing:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Then with ball bearings and a ton of grease:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Put grease off the top and bottom bearing surfaces in the steering head:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Add ball bearings and grease to the top bearing surface
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
and lay it down into the top race:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Then place the lower yoke and gently guide the stem through the top bearing, add the top cover and then the top hat nut:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I tightened by hand and then used a grip to just nip up the top hat. When I moved the yoke from side to side I could feel notchiness so I loosened the top hat nut very slightly until the yoke moved smoothly.

Then added the top yoke and wiggled it down over the stem of the top hat.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I had to open up one clamp to get the fork tube to go through. The tubes went through the other clamps nicely and they got nipped up with new Allen-head bolts:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Success!
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Pleased with all that.

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I've read most of this thread but not all. don't know if someone mentioned it but Betors were standard equipment on most Bultaco motorcycles back in the day. I owned Bulto bikes for 30 years. not many sources left, but Hugh's is still around & prolly the best of the lot

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Now here's the bit I need advice on. I need a lock stop on the forks, and this is how I got the bike:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
A screw pushes up from the bottom of the bottom yoke and is held in place by a nut. I need a longer screw, this is the longest I had handy. Then a piece of hose is pushed over the exposed threads.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

You can see how this was implemented when I got the bike:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

How do y'all feel about this? Any ideas for a better way to make a lock stop?

Last edited by Psychopasta; 11/10/22 2:55 am.
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I also put the oil junction back in place:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

This was a major pain, even with the engine shifted in the frame to get it on. The stiffness of the new hosing really works against you. After a lot of finagling I finally got it back on and put the frame back in its proper place:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

To those of you who can do this job with the engine in place, my deepest admiration.

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Hey guys, not much done today but enough to have to ask a few questions. I've been putting the oil lines from the three way union onto the bike. The top one, thinnest hose is the feed to the rockers:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Is that spring hose clip going to be strong enough, or should I use a pukka hose clip? Also I have the hose coming up between the tank and the frame...is there a better routing for it?

I believe I have the correct crossover with the thickest hose, on the spigot closest to the center of the bike going to the side connector, and the spigot in the middle going to the other one, giving the desired crossover
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Do sharp eyes see anything I should be wary of?

Last, a piece of hose cut to length will be too short. I think I may have cut the thickest hose just a little short so it may touch the swing arm pivot. I can always put a longer hose on later if that's a concern.

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I wouldn't put any tubing between the tank and frame.

If you use the proper fittings, the rocker feed is a tube from the head and the tube pushes onto that. Its fairly long and will allow the pipe to be in a more descrete position without wedging between frame parts


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Originally Posted by Psychopasta
Is that spring hose clip going to be strong enough, or should I use a pukka hose clip?
There isn't a huge amount of pressure on this line; the only restriction in the head is a cotter pin (split pin) at the end of the run. Are you running a filter? That will also affect the amount of oil routing to the head (depending on your oil line routing to/from the filter)

Originally Posted by Psychopasta
I believe I have the correct crossover with the thickest hose, on the spigot closest to the center of the bike going to the side connector, and the spigot in the middle going to the other one, giving the desired crossover
Since you have a later motor with the head feed off the oil manifold, the two lines should be different sizes (5/16" and 3/8"). The do cross over each other, but this will differ based on whether you install an oil filter, and where you locate it. (oil filter should be on the return side)

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Thanks guys. I still haven't decided on the filter.

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But speaking of oil, I am an oil pressure sensor away from being able to prime the engine. Given that this has been a complete engine tear down, what oil do y'all recommend for first time use?

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On the oil junction, the hose does not have to be pushed all the way onto the pipes. No harm now that it's done, but the pipes run so close to the engine that it would have been a lot easier to install without the hose on there. The hose only needs to go on about an inch and a half at the ends of the pipes.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
2007 Triumph Bonneville Black
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Originally Posted by Psychopasta
But speaking of oil, I am an oil pressure sensor away from being able to prime the engine. Given that this has been a complete engine tear down, what oil do y'all recommend for first time use?

You may get different opinions on this, but I would recommend break-in oil, with high ZDDP content. This is often straight 30W, but I have also seen 20W50 break-in oil. Dump it after the second or third heat cycle and replace it with your normal running oil, such as 20W50. On first oil dump, drop the sump plate to make sure there's nothing in there that shouldn't be. Fine sparkles in the oil are ok.

I guess there are more elegant ways of pre-circulating the oil, but I did it by cycling the engine with the kicker. I counted kicks and I believe it took 110 kicks to see oil spurt out the return pipe in the oil tank.


Mark Z

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The best way to prime the motor is before the timing gears have been fitted. With the oil supply connected up and the tacho drive extender fitted into a drill, you can quickly prime the motor, filling the big end gallery and if you have a bush fitted, I keep going until I can see oil coming past the bush (and if the barrel is off, past the big ends too, I then turn the motor and then spin the pump up again. - dont spin the pump too fast, otherwise it will release the OPRV and you will get plenty either draining to sump or straight back up the return pipe (depending on your year of motor).


Nothing wrong with Marks method, I spent years doing just that. I just now prefer doing it the other way as it gives me more confidence on knowing there will be plenty of oil around the big end at first start up.


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I use a socket on the alternator bolt to turn the engine. Would using that be as effective as the kickstarter in getting oil to move?

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Stick a cordless drill on the socket and spin the motor (plugs out), soon gets the slippy stuff moving just fine.

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Oooohhh, that sounds like a plan. Thanks Dave!

I got my new improved steering turn lock fitted today:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Seems to work fine although it does seem little redneck.

In other news, I gave the swingarm and bushes to a local shop to push the bushings in:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Job looks a good'un, but when I try to drop the swing arm bolt through it sticks at the halfway point between the two bushes. Clearly one is slightly out of line with t'other. Now should I

(a) continue with the build, and knock the bolt through the restriction with a bloody big hammer

(b) sort it out before the swingarm goes back on the bike, so the pin pushes easily. If so, how?

Thanks all,

Last edited by Psychopasta; 11/17/22 1:52 am. Reason: typo
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Originally Posted by Dave Martin
Stick a cordless drill on the socket and spin the motor (plugs out), soon gets the slippy stuff moving just fine.

I like the socket idea, but it seems like it would have to be a pretty hefty drill to turn the motor over, unless it's done before the valve train is in place.

"(a) continue with the build, and knock the bolt through the restriction with a bloody big hammer

(b) sort it out before the swingarm goes back on the bike, so the pin pushes easily. If so, how?"

Just in case you're not aware, the swingarm pivot does not turn in the bushings, so it can be a tight fit. I would test it from both ends, just to make sure that the bushings are of the correct diameter. If it looks correct but quite tight at either end, I would consider hand-sanding the pin with a piece of emery cloth, just to make the installation a little less brutal. Just be careful with the BFH; you should be able to feel the difference between "tight" and "the bastard won't budge".

Over time, the pivot pin ultimately bonds to the bushings due to corrosion, and removal often necessitates destroying the pin. I thought the corrosion might be forestalled by smearing a thin coat of grease on the pin, but this theory is unproven.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
2007 Triumph Bonneville Black
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