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I am in the process of attempting to align the steering on my 1966 triumph Bonneville. When I checked the rear wheel alignment I discovered I am out of room at the rear wheel chain adjuster and the wheel appears to be cocked. I have owned the bike for 50 years and don't remember ever changing the final drive chain. I would not even know how to tell if it is worn out. Any suggestions on what type of chain I would need? There seems to be several different type and sizes available. The only markings I have found on the chain currently installed is "KCM50". not sure what this means if anything. I have thought about removing a link to shorten the chain I have now? How does one go about changing a rear chain with out removing the primary cover or is that the simplest method?

If the chain hasn't been changed in 50 years, it's a safe assumption that it needs to be. Removing a link will not help; as the rollers wear, each link gets longer, and then the chain doesn't fit the sprocket teeth right. In fact you should also examine the teeth on your sprockets. They should have a narrow flat surface at the end of the tooth; if they're sharpened, or look scooped or hooked, then the sprockets should be replaced along with the chain.

The chain can be replaced without removing any covers. Simply attach the new chain to the old chain with a master link, and pull it through.

If, however, you have to replace the gearbox sprocket, this requires removal of the entire clutch and primary drive, and a cover which is behind the clutch.

The chain size is what they call 5-30. For the amount of torque that these machines produce, a non-O-ring chain is sufficient. Then it's just a matter of brand and cost vs. longevity.

http://kcm.co.jp/english/product/dendou/index.html

Your should be a 530 non O ring...don't get o ring it is too wide for your bike. There are many brands available, most are OK, something from Japan, England, USA, Germany etc will generally be a better quality.

You don't need to remove the primary!!!

There is a joiner link in your chain, look for a U shaped circlip. To remove, I position this over the rear sprocket and then use a large screwdriver, I position the blade on both ends of the circlip and then use the heel of my hand and bump the circlip off. Once you get it off one pin it will come off by hand easy. Note that when reinstalling the circlip that the U must go towards the drive direction, the 'tails' to the rear.


if you have an old spare chain you can link it to the existing chain and pull it through and then leave it there to do the same for a new one. If not then with some fiddling, lots of swearing, and greasy dirty hands you can manually thread the chain back on. You may need to use the kickstarter to help turn the drive sprocket as you do this...generally everything slowly and preferably by hand.


To align your rear wheel, use a long rod [Oxy/TIG welding rod?] and do a 90 degree bend approx. 2" long. I use a small O ring as a slider on the long end. Position the 90 degree end on the centreline of your swingarm bolt and then slide the o ring to the centreline of your rear wheel axle. Repeat for the other side and until you have both the same distance. This method assumes your frame is straight.

The 66 T120R uses a 103 link chain, this can be hard to come by. I have found my local Brit Bike suppliers like to sell pretty nasty cheap arse chain more suitable to conveyor belts and only available in even sizes. It's crap and last 5 minutes with constant adjustment. 102 is too short and 104 puts the wheel at the end of it's adjustment. I contacted Renold the OE manufacturer and was told they no longer rate their chain for motorcycle use. After asking on here I was directed to Andy The Chain Man, he supplied me with a 103 link Iwis chain for both my 66 bikes. Far better quality and well worth the extra for postage the chain itself was about the same price as the cheap nasty ones.

Rod

If 50 years is your horizon, any chain will do... But seriously, to check for wear, pull on the chain where it's wrapped around the rear sprocket. If you uncover say half a tooth or more the chain has had it. Removing rollers is NOT an option.
I usually replaced mine with a DID VX530, it's slim enough at 23,3 mm to comfortably fit a Triumph. I've used it on the big twins and a Trident, no issues. True, cranked links aren't available and the chain adjusters may end up at the end of their travel, but then they won't need much in the way of adjustment anyway.
Andy used to sneer at O or X-ring chains, for reasons that are beyond me, but they really do last many times longer.
Like maybe ten times, or in your case some 500 years. Only kidding!

FYI, I heard that Andy has retired and has handed the business over to Jason. Also a bike fanatic. Website is the same but email is now to Jason. Not ever used him but am planning to next time I need chains. Not often enough (unfortunately)....

Had a nice mail from Jason, sounds like a nice guy. I don't know his position on sealed chains yet...

Can I just check on this - the VX 530 chain will fit on a 650/750 twin's gearbox sprocket without fouling anything? I would trust your personal experience over the hearsay I've heard up to now which states that the only way to fit an X ring chain is to modify sprockets to fir a 520 chain.

If it is possible to fit the VX530 to my TR7 (with 21T gearbox sprocket) that's what I'll do

So I am still a little confused on ordering a new chain. What is the down side of using a roller chain? size, cost? I believe a 103 link chain is the correct size but are they even available? That is the problem I have now, my chain adjuster is at the end of its travel. and I have 104 links if I am counting correctly.

If your 104 link chain is worn, a new 104 link chain should fit with a reasonable degree of adjustment left. I don;t understand the question "What is the down side of using a roller chain?" - you have to use a roller chain and there is no down-side - the up-side is that if you fit a new one, and keep it oiled nicely, it'll work better!

You can get DID 530 standard chain for reasonable prices, to any even number of links you like. No need for O ring or X ring chains if you're willing to keep up with lubrication (which I guess you must be, if your existing chain has lasted 50 years)

Yes my friend, I have fitted a VX530 to several Triumph motorcycles with 19T and 20T sprockets and they fit without rubbing or grinding on anything, no mods necessary. I can't swear it'll fit with a 21T sprocket but to be honest I think so. Likewise, I'm not sure it'll fit on a C series engine but I think it will.

On a Trident, the usual problem with O-ring chains will be the bottom inside of the chain chewing on the seal holder bolt heads. Many use 20T sprockets to gain clearance, but the VX530 gives enough clearance with the standard 18T sprocket I'm using. I have almost 5000 km on mine with no adjustment necessary. The IWIS standard chain I was using was totaled after that distance, and I kept it well.
But I'm no stranger to sealed chains, I used Tsubaki on a Bonnie, and later on an A75 over two decades ago, made chain wear problems redundant.
IMHO Tsubaki is about the best you can get, but the VX530 too seems to be well up to the immense power and torque delivered by Meriden's Finest!

One reason I don't want to use 520 or 525 width chains is that I believe the gearbox sprocket will wear faster, and it's a swine of a job to change it...
As I said the VX530 width, or "pin length" if you google the specs, is 23.30 mm. Most others will be 25.00 mm or more IME.

Johnpl,

Pay close attention to the description of removing the chain. Sounds simple but not so. The idea is that the chain will go slithering away and off the drive sprocket before your eyes faster than you can think. Then you will be cursing as try to get it back on. Been there. Done that.

If you have that many miles on the chain, then most likely your rear sprocket is also toast. If I remember correctly a worn sprocket will wear a new chain faster. I am not sure of the ratio, but I think you can usually get away with at least two rear sprocket changes to each front change.

Hi John, There is no down side to a normal chain. The o-ring type chains require less maintenance as the lube is sealed in. This tends to make the chain last longer, often much longer. This an also lead to longer sprocket life.

Back to a normal chain. I know many dis respect the Renold chain. However I've used the new ones on several machines to very good results. With regular lubrication you should expect at least 12-15k miles of service. Even then the "wear limit" in shop manual will not be exceeded, but the shop manual limit is quite worn in my opinion.

The new Renold chain for our bikes is the Synergy line. It is not as strong as many other chains, but I've never heard of one breaking. The side plates are a little thinner, yet wider on the up/down part than many chains, so they have less an hour glass shape to side plates to help give strength. The narrow plates allows a shorter rivet & overall width of chain. Triumphs have a close fit of chain to trans case on some motors so the narrow is helpful. 750 twin is rather close. Wider chains may rub trans case, chain guard or tire. Look at clearance carefully if you use wider chain. Up/down is not so much an issue as side to side. 20t front chain will clear easily up/down. With chain guide installed (case saver) 20t cam be very close & chain can rub guide. Often bending guide will give clearance, but not an easy task. 19t on front no problem. I have no experience with 21t front.

Renold is one of the few manufactures that offers are riveted on cranked link. Actually the cranked link is riveted on later. Cranked link is a special link, wide on one end, narrow on the other. It is well known a cranked link is not as strong as a normal link. However the Synergy cranked link is improved over the original type cranked link from 60s & 70s in that it has small folds in side plates to help stiffen them. I've been observing the cranked link on a few machines including my own for about 5 years now. I've not observed any distortion or undue wear on the cranked link or either 650 or 750 twins. 2 of the machines covered 14k miles on chain including mine. The other is still running the chain. Not to wear limit yet on chain.

I bought my '73 Tiger new. It came with 107 link with cranked link. All odd number chains must have cranked link. I've always kept my chains well lubed. Have ridden in rain & dirt roads on both old 1970s & new chains. The wear on each is similar in my real life experience. The old chains had black side plates & distinct hour glass shaped side plates. The Synergy is a dark silver color. Both resist rust the same amount.

I was unable to find strength rating on vintage 60&70s Renold. My expectation is the Synergy is stronger due to the side plate shape.

The vintage Renold chains looks like cranked link was installed at Renold factory at time chain was made for Triumph as riveting is virtually identical to the normal riveting. As I said the Synergy cranked link riveting is different & probably done later to order.


Many parts places sells 107 link that fits many T140 type bikes. The ones I've gotten from USA sellers come in Renold Motorcycle chain box. These are new production & say Renold on the links. I just got one recently From Classic British Spares.


I don't see 103 link readily listed, but you can file or grind end of rivet off & shorten chain easily.


In my experience if you need 103 link would be hard to beat the Renold chain. Makes your life simple. Just lube it as you've been doing. It should last good for you.


I don't know what Iwis sells as cranked link for motorcycles. The cranked link on there web site is held together with cotter pins.... Looks odd, but maybe it's very good I don't know.
Don

Hi Rod, The Chain Man web site doesn't list the actual chains on the site. Just the brands.

What does the cranked Iwis link look like on your bikes? Are they riveted or use cotter pins to hold on side plate?

Renold sells a cotter pin side plate cranked link, but I've never seen them used on motorcycle chains. But... I've lots to learn.

Thanks, Don

Most interesting on eBay.... The blue Renold box has the full round riveted pins, but... the yellow Renold box has only the 2 side clinch riveting. Renold says full circle is much stronger.

At the same time zooming on chains, none show the cranked link riveted on. In fact none show the cranked link at all. So I guess they're generic photos. The chains I've been involved with all came in blue box & the cranked link was riveted on already. Yet both have the 10B Synergy side plate. Interesting....


https://www.ebay.com/itm/73-83-TRIUMPH-T140-750-NEW-RENOLD-530-REAR-DRIVE-CHAIN-107-LINKS-60-2118-UK-MADE/272450962464?epid=757004204&hash=item3f6f57c420:g:sEsAAOSwB09YK3ON:sc:USPSPriorityMailPaddedFlatRateEnvelope!94523!US!-1:rk:3:pf:0


https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-8-X-3-8-Motorcycle-Chain-107-Links-Triumph-BSA-Norton-18-10112/302295159823?hash=item466232140f:g:GlYAAOSwBOtY~0~B:rk:4:pf:0

Don

Hi Don, the Iwis cranked link is riveted and appears to be factory assembled. Interesting what you say about Renold, they had a local bricks and mortar store here. When I spoke to them I was told that they only recommended their GP chain for bikes and that would need to be imported. They also would not rivet a half link for me and sold me the one with split pins, both of which fell out although the link did not. I'd have no issue with a Renold chain but I have to question who's opinion to trust?




Rod

Hi Rod, Thank you very much for the reply.

That chain looks nice! Certainly looks like a factory job. The Renold cranked link rivet is obviously not done on machine chain was done on.

I don't know who do believe either. I speak of my personal experience as do you. Most interesting as to how different the parts situation is in different areas.

I've had such good results with the Renold chain. Has Renold 10B stamped on side plate, but what does that mean?? I don't know. I don't see GP chain listed on Renold site. I read in old post the GP is no longer made. But who knows?

The Iwis chain you show looks very good. That would certainly be better choice than Renold if riveted cranked link is not available as you found in your area.

My original chain has narrow end of cranked link inside the master link, as does my current chain but I feel you're position of cranked link is best . I've installed 2 Renold crank link chains that are hand riveted with the crank like your photo on bikes. I cannot explain why the variation in Renold links.

So the question, who is riveting the links? Factory or a reseller? Who is making the boxes?

107 Renold cranked link chains are very easy to come by here, but why? Interesting when you enter 10B in Renold search box goes to worm gears. But enter 10B chain goes to Mega Chain Peru... Which links to Renold Jeffery a USA Renold company. Is Renold Jeffery assembling cranked link??

Box is in my hand. Says Renold motorcycle chain. Renold chain England, but no where does it specifically say country where made. So who knows? I don't know what to believe either!

The box says they recommend riveted master link #107, split lock master link #26 is for emergency use, not for competition or use with motorcycle of any capacity. I've only used he split lock master that is supplied with chain. Thank God Triumphs are not bikes of capacity!


Thanks again, very informative & interesting conversation.
Don.

For a bit of info on Renold chains: www.chains.guru

I was running a 530 O ring chain on my Trident, not sure which brand, it was a big mutha!!! Will look when I get the chance. It fit OK - wouldn't fit on the twin - but used to rattle on the chain guard a lot.

I went over to 525 x ring on the Trident and 520 on the twin, I have over 20,000km on each, no regrets, no issues, no rattles. Best part was using std sprockets and only turning the metal off the timing side, this gives you just that little bit extra clearance on gearbox and rear tyre etc.

Never going back to basic chain, never ever never!!!

So you DO have to reduce sprocket thickness to suit 520 chain, if you want to fit an X ring chain on a 750 twin?

Tried to word this better so that I didn't do a Sheldon Cooper...but I think I failed:).

Right and wrong.....you do have to reduce sprocket thickness if you want to use a 520 chain. Stein has stated that he has found and uses a 530 O ring chain. So your first statement is correct, we have been informed by Stein that the second part is not sorry.

But a 520 chain will not work on 530 sprockets.

Reducing sprocket thickness is not the antichrist....an O ring/X ring chain retains shape, weighs less so less reciprocating mass, doesn't run dry [well, unless abused], lasts longer, so is generally easier on sprockets. The working surface is less, true, but the benefits of using an O ring chain outweigh the reduction. There are quite a few high power modern motorcycles that use 520 chain these days.
530 = 3/8"
525 = 5/16"
520 = 1/4"

My wife's Bonneville ST 900 use a 525 chain, I'm not sure about the 1200. Big Ducatis use 520 and 525 with no issues and a reasonable life.
I was tempted to use a 520 on the Trident as I had the gearbox sprocket already, but I wasn't keen on tampering with my primary and clutch as it works so well, and it's reasonably oil tight too. Besides, I'd need to turn down my rear sprocket, extra work and hassle. And as the VX530 went right in, I'm happy.
I did think about sprocket life though, I believe the wider sprocket may last longer but when you quote 20.000 km and still good, it sort of becomes a non issue.
Lighter weight is always nice, but I can't say I notice the difference between the standard 530 and the VX, and the difference between those are much bigger than between 520 and a 530 sealed chains. There's a difference but not very much.
On balance, if I needed a to replace a final drive I'd still chose a 520 sealed chain if I could buy a sprocket kit from someone.
Convenience is important to me...



.

Where are you going to find those sprockets?

Hi Stein, Thanks for the link. Very interesting.

I noticed last updated 2016. I wonder if he ever really got into actual sales? For odd number links you get a cranked link & additional master link.... So he's not riveting them.

No so sure he's correct about being all being manufactured in Germany. But I really don't know.
Don

You can get the sprockets already made in that size, I've seen them advertised. But generally the centreline of each sprocket is the same as standard. ie they make the sprocket with reduced thickness on both surfaces.

If you get a standard set of sprockets, and have them turned down on a lathe, then you get to decide where you may want that extra wiggle room. I always do the timing side. This moves the centreline of both sprockets slightly to the primary side, giving just that bit more room for the rear 120 tyre.

Out of stock...but they are out there:

http://www.mapcycle.com/categories/...0-sprocket-cs-520-20t-5-spd-british.html

But I have seen others.