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#729613 03/22/18 8:46 pm
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So, my 1971 T100R parts manual, shows the gas tap steel washer against the tank, and then the sealing washer, my 69 T120R parts manual shows the gas tap sealing washer against the tank and then the steel washer, I assume that its the sealing washer on first against the tank is correct?

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Steve
Originally Posted by Mark. L
I assume that its the sealing washer on first against the tank is correct?


Yes. I also put a small wrap of PTFE tape (yellow - petrol-safe) on the petcock threads before installing. Between the tape and sealing washer, I've never had to worry about a leak.

Steve


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I have that tape here, so, its tape then the sealing washer.. thx for the heads up

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I've gone to statoseal washers. They [so far] seem to have done a better job.

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Hi Mark,

Originally Posted by Mark. L
1971 T100R parts manual, shows the gas tap steel washer against the tank, and then the sealing washer, my 69 T120R parts manual shows the gas tap sealing washer against the tank and then the steel washer,

Uh-uh, the '71 T100 parts list has a series of misprints, whistle not only the "Ref. No.'s" corresponding to the drawing but also the part numbers of the "Petrol tap seal", "Steel washer" and "Petrol tap nut".

Originally Posted by Mark. L
I assume that its the sealing washer on first against the tank is correct?

Correct, the '69 650 parts manual also has the correct part numbers.

Note the "E7351 Petrol tap seal" are the Stat-O-Seal washers posted by "tridentt150v". Like him, I haven't had to use PTFE tape on tap threads.

Hth.

Regards,

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Thanks for all the info guys, my sealing washers still look good, taps are functional, so I'll put them in as per the T120R manual, no tape, sealing washers first then steel washer

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Hi Guys, Interesting about Teflon. I had to use Teflon on my stato seals that I got on ebay. They leaked instantly after install. I used several wraps of Teflon tape, which held perfectly for about 4 years. I then removed taps to repair leak in tank with Caswell tank liner.

I then got some from Rabers. They worked good for about 4 months or so, then started seeping. I'd prior seen better results from Raber's stato seal on other bikes.

I had bought 2 pairs from Raber's. Installed 2nd pair with Teflon tape. So far no leaks.

In the mean time I did some research. The original Stato seal had a different (smaller) ID on the rubber membrane as modern stato seal offered to us in USA.

So far as I can tell nobody world wide replicates the original. Back in the 70s I did lots of stato seal to perfect results. Now days replacements tend to leak.

I contacted Bay Seal Company Haward, California & talked to their engineer. He suggested what is being sold as stato seal is not for threads, but for under a bolt head with a smooth shank. That is really more like a Dowty washer. They are not too far so I rode over & he gave some samples to me.

Parker Seal makes a viton seal that has a smaller ID which grabs the threads much better. This seal is very California fuel & heat resistant 400f. Visually this looks like what we buy now, but smaller ID of rubber & thicker rubber overall. Not really recommended for threads. It looks like it might work good.

They also make a seal specifically for threads like our fuel taps have. This one is Buna N rubber. It has a much lower working heat range, but is still approaching 250f. He said it is very California gas resistant. This one has a thin triangular shaped membrane that is supposed to seal well. Looks like it will work good also.

They visually look like the normal stato seal we buy, but in addition they have a thin triangular shaped membrane extending into the ID of seal. Apparently this helps center washer on threads & the membrane follows threads such it seals better.

These seals are Parker brand & actually made for 1/2-13 thread bolts. However 1/2-13 has similar minor diameter as our fuel taps.

As I said these fit much more tightly around threads. This is with my trial fitting on a spare fuel tap compared to what is currently sold as stato seals.

Very carefully inspecting leaks of my old seals they were dry against tank & washer between seal & nut. The leaks were by threads 100%.

The original Stato seals from the 70s had a thin membrane extending from the thicker rubber ring bonded to the steel washer. These just worked & never leaked. We never gave it a thought. Just installed & was good.

I've not yet installed either of the Parker brand seals on my bike yet for testing.

I'm planning a 900 mile ride in a few months & don't have time to deal with stato seal experiments until after that. I have other things to get replaced & serviced for the ride such as tires, chain, trans sprocket oil leak & some carb mixture work. Plus new gaskets to make for air filter covers.

There are some UK suppliers of the stato type seals with the triangular membrane I've seen on line. Would be interesting to see what they have to say. They show sizes to fit BSP sizes. I didn't follow up on UK suppliers.

What I've done that seems to work well with Teflon tape is install nut all the way down on tap. Of course depending on thickness of tape, I put a good 5 wraps of tape from end of threads down to nut. Then install flat washer down to nut, then stato seal down to flat washer. Then add more wraps of tape. About 5 more. Just to where it will thread into bung & not bind up tape too much.

Then screw in tap until it lines up where I want it. Then tighten lock nut upwards against flat washer until it's tight.

That has been how I've done it on a few bikes & it worked good. Held good for 4.5 years before the tank reseal.

Just recently a friend had his stato seal spontaneously start leaking after a cold snap. These were the common seals we get from ebay or parts dealers in USA. Teflon wrapped as above fixed his too.

Just sucks seals that don't leak are not readily supplied.
Don




Last edited by TR7RVMan; 03/24/18 7:31 am. Reason: changed sentence

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Hi Don,

Originally Posted by TR7RVMan
Just sucks seals that don't leak are not readily supplied.

I suspect the operative phrase here is "from eBay" ...

Risking stating the obvious, there are different Stat-O-Seals for, say, 1/4"BSP, M12 and M14, and possibly M13. An educated guess says you probably fit them to the taps a similar way to me - screwed on with a little lube, not pressed on without. Given the major diameter of 1/4"BSP, with the best will in the world, M14 still isn't going to seal, no matter what the eBay seller says they fit. smile

Hth.

Regards,

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Hi Stuart, Thanks for the reply.

That's the thing, who knows what you are actually getting?

The Ebay seals are from the more prominent suppliers of Triumph parts that have brick & motor stores, plus workshops with good reputations.

What are the shops getting from their suppliers?

Another case in point is outer seal in primary case for alternator wire. These are the '69 & newer type. Sometimes you get the correct inside diameter hole, sometimes way too big. Wire flops about in hole.
Don


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It has long been a problem to seal threads from gasoline, as gas is a solvent and will remove almost anything. I have found that genuine Hylomar M will work on petcock threads no matter what washers are used. It is a polyester urethane which can not be affected by almost any fluids (except acetone). I can say with certainty there is no other product like it. Hylomar remains flexible so vibration and temperature have no effect on its sealing capability. It's also great on drain plugs.
Hylomar is still made in Wigan, England under license from Rolls Royce and when used correctly is an amazing tool. My shop is the Southern California distributor for Hylomar and provides it to racers, engine shops, and for industrial applications.

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Stagg also works, but its annoying to clean up if you ever have to disassemble. I'm [strangely] with Stuart on this one, all I use is a statoseal washer, no sealer or thread tape etc. We have an excellent Hydraulic shop in my town [for the timber and earthmoving industry] and they supply statoseal washers in a very wide variety of sizes. Kubota, Komatsu, Volvo [which can be a mix] and smaller CAT stuff etc is either Japanese or European so metric is generally needed. Larger CAT, Tigercat, John Deere, International and other stuff is made in the USA and is imperial....so the shop caters for both camps.

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I can't stop the old ex plumber from within me taking over & using PTFE tape on any and all things threaded ,
Be it steam air oil gas liquid hot cold dry wet or maybe even just lukewarm ? ..
in my opinion a couple good winds of PTFE tape will leave all those fancy gimmick rubber / metal composite washers behind for total dead !!!

Gimmick washers are like having to wearing beach thongs to play football in because you can't lace up a pair of boots grin

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Must admit that I have never had sealing problems when using the correct size Stat-O-Seal and compression washer.
You have to make sure that the gas tank surface is smooth and clean--no paint unevenness etc but if you take common sense precautions it seals good.
However all that pales into insignificance when compared with the mental image of Bodie playing football wearing nothing but boots and thongs!

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Hi Richard,

You don't have any need to fear for your mental state, "thongs" is Oz for what you and I know as "flip-flops", not small pieces of nether underwear ... grin

Regards,

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Oh--jeez--I guess I am not too good at languages.
Brought up in UK so I mastered English English --eventually.
Then I moved to US and after 17 years I am reasonably proficient in American English.
Now you tell me there is a separate Oz English.
Over the course of my life to date I have been to over 120 different countries and managed OK by just speaking English English.
If the other guy didn't understand then I spoke English English in a louder voice and everything worked out fine.
Think I will go back to that method.
Message to Bodie " I say, old boy, do you happen to know if your flip flops fit inside your boots rather well?"

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Haaaa ! ..
I should have known i was living dangerous on a world wide forum with that comment , should have called em Flip-flops instead blush

It's no wonder now is it why i got banned from ever joining any pole dancing classes ? laughing

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Hi Richard,

Originally Posted by Tridentman
Now you tell me there is a separate Oz English.

Ime, Oz is more a subset of English, they adapt one word to different uses or meanings ...

... On one of my earliest visits, an Australian docker advised that a piece of equipment had stopped working, "S'cuse me, Mr. Mate, the f**kin' f**ker's f**ked."

... Or the common Oz phrase, "She'll be right" can refer to anything, not just of the female persuasion ...

cool

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Stat-O-Seals or Dowdy washers work on a smooth shaft. They are not going to seal against threads unless you use a new Nyloc nut to seal the thread.

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Both Stat-O-Seals and Dowty washers were designed to seal two faces.
Certainly Dowty seals had their origins in the Dowty Company in UK sealing the hydraullcs on aircraft undercarriages.
However if you have one of these seals in which the rubber part is a close fit on the threads then by compressing the seal the rubber part of the seal is extruded into the threads--thereby sealing them.
If you think about it in our gas tap situation you have to seal three things:
a) The face on the gas tank.
b) The face on the compression washer.
c) The threads on the tap.
If only a) and b) are sealed there is no reason why the gas will not leak down the threads.
Just my two cents worth of course.

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Originally Posted by Stuart
Hi Richard,

Originally Posted by Tridentman
Now you tell me there is a separate Oz English.

Ime, Oz is more a subset of English, they adapt one word to different uses or meanings ...

... On one of my earliest visits, an Australian docker advised that a piece of equipment had stopped working, "S'cuse me, Mr. Mate, the f**kin' f**ker's f**ked."

... Or the common Oz phrase, "She'll be right" can refer to anything, not just of the female persuasion ...

cool


And the use of the word 'bugger' in its various subtle forms......gotta love it smile.................its English, but taken to another level [note I didn't say if it was higher or lower].

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And btw, I didn't swear....in NZ and Oz bugger is used in prime time adverts on TV in one of its numerous and various forms.

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Originally Posted by Tridentman
Just my two cents worth of course.


I totally agree with you ,

Works pretty much along the well known principle to aid sealing "that leaky" gearbox sprocket on a T150 or Rocket 3 ..
You can fit all the correct purpose made 'o' rings in world on it if you so wish ? . "But" .. Unless you back it up with a good smear of silicon to seal the threads between the mainshaft & sprocket nut ~> IT WILL LEAK OIL <~ Horses for courses , seals n 'o' rings work well on flanges and other smooth surfaces but not threads ...

My personal take on it is ; if the Dowty washers are working for you then it's more by luck than any real design - maybe the crap fuel we get these days has swollen the seal to fill in the thread gaps ? who knows , For me it's PTFE tape - i'll target & seal the thread every time and just use the locknut & washer to secure the tap into it's final position.

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On the gearbox sprocket, sealer should be put on the flange that sits against the face of the high gear. That way oil does not get to the splines and threads.

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Hydraulic stuff has those type seals as on my Kubota tractor..........I have been using PTFE "teflon" white paste in the tube for many years with no washers and no leaks....The washers work nicely but I never have them when needed.....It's not like I think ahead to have them in stock...

Don, you often mention the "different" California gas....What exactly is in it that makes it different than the typical unleaded 10 percent ethanol used in other states? I'm sure the evaporation values are different, but what about various chemicals or solvents?


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We have found the cheap Taiwan petcocks often leak past the threads as the threaded portion is often too small. They are really loose fit in the bung of the tank. The English made ones fit much better. You must also have a flat clean surface for seals to fit against, With painters putting on many coats of paint and clear coat it is often a source of a leak and the beginnings of the paint peeling up.
I can not think of one place on a Triumph motorcycle where we use any sort of Teflon tape.

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