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#717916 12/06/17 2:47 pm
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I would be interested in hearing real world reports on this starter on your Commando. Specifically thinking of extended use on a regular rider now that they have been available for a while. ... Any problems?
Thanks
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You might check on Accessnorton site. Lots of info there on this starter.


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I haven't heard a single report on a CNW e-start issue on AccessNorton.Com, here, or several facebook Norton/Commando forums.

Nothing but very happy owners.


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I wonder how many of the CNW starter kits are installed on road bikes and have been in use on a regular basis? It would be nice to know that a bullet-proof starter update solution is now available.

.. Gregg


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I agree, most classics see very little use.


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You might check with "Dyno" Dave Commeau. Pretty sure he has a starter for Commandos

Hmm looks like MKIII only?

Dyno Dave Commeau WEBSITE


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the test bike was stan keys daily rider and talking to john at sts that makes them for CNW, for 1 year he would turn off the bike at every stop light and restart it. also looking at the workings of it it is a well made piece of kit. as GP also stated there has not been 1 complaint with the unit on the other forums.


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On the other hand, I haven't had any complaints to date about the STOCK starter on my MkIII, so there's that .... It does have a heavy-gauge direct ground connection, but you've got to do that on any vintage electric non-Japanese electric start bike - Brits, Guzzis, Harleys, etc ....

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Originally Posted by ricochetrider
You might check with "Dyno" Dave Commeau. Pretty sure he has a starter for Commandos

Hmm looks like MKIII only?
[/url]


Correct: Dave's been making that starter for several years, but it is just that: the starter only, made to replace the stock part found in the MKIII.
The other thing to observe with any e-Start bike (and especially the MKIII) is to ensure you have a beefy battery that is fully charged.

.. Gregg

Last edited by gREgg-K; 04/13/18 2:18 pm.

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#731811 04/13/18 6:20 pm
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Originally Posted by Charles DB
Stock starters are notoriously weak. Cold engine with good valve and piston ring sealing and a chilly morning usually means the starter wont turn the engine enough to fire. Norton knew this, that's why in the riders info booklet that came with a new bike they recommended using the starter in conjunction with the kickstart. Just another nail in the coffin.


I hear that a lot, but my stock starter will spin the engine just fine with no hesitation, and spin it faster than I can kick it. Cold or hot, with 20W/50 oil.

So they must not all be like that.

Lannis


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Originally Posted by gREgg-K
Originally Posted by ricochetrider
You might check with "Dyno" Dave Commeau. Pretty sure he has a starter for Commandos

Hmm looks like MKIII only?
[/url]


Correct: Dave's been making that starter for several years, but it is just that: the starter only, made to replace the stock part found in the MKIII.
The other thing to observe with any e-Start bike (and especially the MKIII) is to ensure you have a beefy battery that is fully charged.

.. Gregg


That last part is what I suspect gets most people.

Many many years on bike lists have convinced me of two things:

1) Nobody EVER wants to believe that their problem is the battery, whether it's starting, ignition, or whatever. The battery's just a block of plastic, nothing can go wrong with that, besides, I just spent $60 last year on it, so it CAN'T be the problem.

2) Ninety percent of bike electrical problems that are not the battery, are a bad ground. Nine times out of ten. But no one ever checks the grounds first, it's only after a lot of on-line trouble shooting.

3) People will spend a fortune on tools and widgets and gadgets to help them enjoy fettling and riding. One thing that hardly ANYONE ever buys is a battery Load Tester. They will stick the pair of VOM probes across the battery and say "I got 12 volts, it's good", not knowing that a 12V battery showing 12.0 volts is deader than a hammer. OR they say "I got 12.7 volts, it's good" never testing whether the battery will actually supply any CURRENT at 12.7 volts.

It just amazes me how few people actually invest $90 in a tool that will instantly tell them if the problem is the battery or is it not the battery, so they can either buy a new one (even if they just bought one last year) or move on to something else .... ?

I suspect that I will continue to be "amazed" by all that for the next 20 years, or whenever I decide "I guess I've said this enough ... "!

Lannis


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You are of course correct, Lannis ... duff batteries are very often the source of electrical problems, and I've run into an increasing incidence of them over the past few years. Most often, they have poor or intermittent connections between the cells. And, along the lines of "a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing...", a VOM in the wrong hands can be a terrible thing.

.. Gregg


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Second after batteries has to be ignition switches. Over the last 15 years every Brit bike I have had to replace the switch at least once and some of them 2 or 3 times. Doesn't matter if the box for the replacement says Lucas or not. Always the same symptoms, random hard starting and poor running at lower revs.


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Lannie's bike also has 6 gauge battery cables.


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#731869 04/14/18 1:49 pm
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Originally Posted by Charles DB
Originally Posted by Lannis

It just amazes me how few people actually invest $90 in a tool that will instantly tell them if the problem is the battery or is it not the battery, so they can either buy a new one (even if they just bought one last year) or move on to something else .... ?
Lannis



Guilty! I have lots of tools but never owned a battery load tester. What's your opinion on this http://www.gunson.co.uk/product/G4184 ?

Also is there a tool available which will dynamically load a wire (put a voltage through it) and double up as battery tester?



I can only say that the one I bought at the NAPA tool department looks very much like that one, has the same specs and features, and cost the same (your £77 vs. my $100) ... and mine's been used for years and still like new.

ANY electrical question on ANY vehicle from a lawnmower to a tractor to a motorcycle, this is the first thing I pull down off the wall - clip it to the battery, throw the load switch and hold it for 10 seconds, and there is NO DOUBT about whether the battery is a problem or not!

Lannis


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Originally Posted by Richrd
Lannie's bike also has 6 gauge battery cables.


There's that, too. It's like on my Guzzis - the companies that make these bikes always go with the minimal cable size, presumably to save on the cost of copper.

Upgrading to the "right" size, which is pretty cheap, fixes most all the problems. And if it doesn't, well, at least you know that any problems you have are because something's broken, and not because the electrons are choked down in a wire that's too small!

I'm happy with my stock starter - and if (or when, it's mechanical after all) the sprag clutch shatters, time enough to upgrade then ....

Lannis


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A low battery / slow turning can cause a backfire.
At least Norton fitted a ball clutch to protect the sprag in the event of a backfire


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Originally Posted by Andy Higham
A low battery / slow turning can cause a backfire.
At least Norton fitted a ball clutch to protect the sprag in the event of a backfire

Ah yes, something to keep in mind with the MKIII e-Start. The ball clutch is supposed to 'slip' at around 50 lb-ft. On my most recent MKIII, some bright lad had taken this to mean that the assembly nut on the ball clutch should be torqued to 50 lb-ft ... resulting in the device becoming completely locked up and unable to slip. Of course, this did not become obvious until a backfire trashed the sprag ...

I machined a splined tool to test the slip point of the ball clutch, something every MKIII should have done.

.. Gregg


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I looked at the specs, and I'm not sure what all it does ... a bit too much "Engrish", things like "power injection" and "ground heat", maybe it's me but I don't know how to translate those.

Three things that I think are useful, I'm not sure if this device does them or not:

1) A diode tester, to see if a diode is flowing current properly, although you can sort of "thumbnail" it with an ohmmeter.

2) A device that you can lay up along the spark plug wire and see if it's sparking under compression without pulling the plug.

3) An induction tachometer that can tell you engine RPMs the same way ....

Lannis

Last edited by Lannis; 04/15/18 5:12 pm.

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Isn't that what a multimeter does, or even a battery and bulb? Why do you need to spend so much?

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Originally Posted by koan58
Isn't that what a multimeter does, or even a battery and bulb? Why do you need to spend so much?


It sounds like the tool can act as a power supply, putting a fused 12 volts across a connection to test it, without having to rig up jumpers, a fuse, and a battery.

Can't say I've ever needed one, but you never know.

Lannis


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Hi Lannis, Charles,

Originally Posted by Lannis
It sounds like the tool can act as a power supply, putting a fused 12 volts across a connection to test it, without having to rig up jumpers, a fuse, and a battery.

Originally Posted by Charles DB
That is my understanding as well.

Mmmm ... not really, they all have to be connected to a battery.

An Ohm- or multi-meter set to Ohms makes a circuit with whatever's between the ends of the meter leads, just the Amps aren't that great because the meter's internal battery is necessarily small. The problem there can be that a nearly-broken wire will show as (near-) zero Ohms but when the wire is asked to carry several Amps, it fails. frown To check for the nearly-broken wire, you have to connect the component into a circuit with a battery and Ammeter.

Because they're connected to an external battery, the gadgets will do the same. However, I started to read the instructions for the Sealey, they might be clearer with the gadget in your hand but, frankly, the possibility of letting the smoke out of an expensive gadget by moving a switch the wrong way for a given "polarity" seemed rather too real. I'm with Dave on this one, 'fraid imho these are an expensive solution in search of a problem.

Hth.

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Originally Posted by Lannis

Many many years on bike lists have convinced me of two things:
1) Nobody EVER wants to believe that their problem is the battery, whether it's starting, ignition, or whatever. The battery's just a block of plastic, nothing can go wrong with that, besides, I just spent $60 last year on it, so it CAN'T be the problem.
2) Ninety percent of bike electrical problems that are not the battery, are a bad ground. Nine times out of ten. But no one ever checks the grounds first, it's only after a lot of on-line trouble shooting.
3) People will spend a fortune on tools and widgets and gadgets to help them enjoy fettling and riding. One thing that hardly ANYONE ever buys is a battery Load Tester. They will stick the pair of VOM probes across the battery and say "I got 12 volts, it's good", not knowing that a 12V battery showing 12.0 volts is deader than a hammer. OR they say "I got 12.7 volts, it's good" never testing whether the battery will actually supply any CURRENT at 12.7 volts.
It just amazes me how few people actually invest $90 in a tool that will instantly tell them if the problem is the battery or is it not the battery, so they can either buy a new one (even if they just bought one last year) or move on to something else .... ?
I suspect that I will continue to be "amazed" by all that for the next 20 years, or whenever I decide "I guess I've said this enough ... "!


Yes .. classic bike owners are notoriously stupid .
Nice to see wise men devoting all their time on forums to enlighten us ..

Last edited by ludwig; 04/17/18 7:59 pm.
#732290 04/18/18 11:52 am
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Originally Posted by Charles DB
Hi Stuart,

Thanks for the advice. I was aware the devices require an external battery for voltage. The appeal to me is the ease of use in powering up components, sections of circuits, earths. The KM10 and Sealey both have circuit breakers. They do look similar but price of the KM10 is approx. half that of the Sealey. I would not be surprised if they are manufactured in the same factory. I'm going to splash out £54 on a KM10 and I'll post how I get on with it. If it means I can find solutions to electrical problems quicker than usual it will be money well spent.


And we'll need a "User Report" when you get it ... could be the start of a new trend. OR the start of "glad he spent the money and I didn't have to .... !! laughing

Lannis


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#732315 04/18/18 5:27 pm
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Originally Posted by Charles DB
Surely a case of, 'the pot calling the kettle black' if ever there was one!


But Charles , it was a compliment !
" Honni soit qui mal y pense " , like they say in England .
Only wish I had the time to spend 4 hours a day on forums , dishing out advice ..
Anyway , bike is packed , off to Spain for the next month .

Hasta luego .

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