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#680902 01/11/17 12:35 pm
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ECarol Offline OP
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Anyone recommend the Wassell Micro MK1 electronic ignition as sold on ebay?? Do you need anything else to go with it for it to work? I have a 1971 A65 Lightning basket case and is my first British bike.

Last edited by ECarol; 01/11/17 6:00 pm.
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I am thinking the same way but i think you may need to provide a little more info ? bike ,year is it 6v or 12v

I know mine is a 6v negative earth and some ebay ads state you need to change coils etc so they are a little confusing.


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I have one on my B44R. They are really well made. I'm quite happy with it. Plug and play on a unit single.

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Ive got one on my B44ss Its very easy install and works excellent.

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ECarol Offline OP
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I assume my '71 Lightning basket case is 12 volt.

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Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

Originally Posted by ECarol
Wassell Micro MK1 electronic ignition

If these are the same as the first batch sold some years ago, they're a licensed copy of the Boyer-Bransden MicroMark3 analogue, superseded by the B-B Mark4 several years ago.

Originally Posted by ECarol
Do you need anything else to go with it for it to work?

Ignition Coils
On a twin, I always fit '6V' coils with electronic ignition. This might sound odd to you - as you know your bike has 12V electrics - if you aren't familiar with with the difference between connecting electrical components 'in parallel' and 'in series':-

. On your bike, coils were originally switched by points; the two coils were connected 'in parallel'; the Voltage of coils connected 'in parallel' must be the same as the system Voltage (i.e. 12V on your bike);

. Including the Wassell, all electronic ignitions suitable for your bike have only one connection to the coils, so multiple coils must be connected 'in series'; 'in series', the system Volts are divided between the components so, on your bike, system 12V divided by 2 coils equals 6V each coil. :bigt

As this is your first British bike, if you do replace the original '12V' ignition coils with '6V', I suggest the coils that look the same - they'll fit in the same frame mounting brackets. :bigt

Coils with two HT leads are common and many Britbike owners fit them with electronic ignition; however, such coils vary enormously in quality, you have to understand electrical resistance and how to check a coil, and you have to be prepared to fabricate a non-standard mounting for the coil.

Fuse
Although not shown in wiring diagrams, I fit a 5A standard automotive blade fuse/holder in the supply to an electronic ignition.

Multi-meter
Risking stating the obvious, your A65 is getting on for half-a-century old; any electronic ignition is only part of the ignition circuit and won't tolerate shonky near-half-century-old connections and other components; the rest of the electrics - including the battery and charging system (alternator, rectifier and Zener diode regulator) must be near-perfect.

So welcome to the world of electrical fault-finding. If you don't have one already, the first electrical fault-finding tool you'll need will be at least a cheap multi-meter (with at least scales for reading resistance (Ohms, horseshoe-shaped symbol) and a little over 12V, you'll add a more-expensive meter later). As you're in the US, you'll also likely add British Wiring on speed-dial ... whistle

Originally Posted by ECarol
basket case and is my first British bike.

Magpie Syndrome is the temptation to acquire lots of shiny new trinkets. cool

If original points, auto-advance unit, condensers and 12V coils are in the "basket", you might want to consider at least getting the bike up and running before fitting an e.i.? Apart from they'll obviously plug straight into an original harness without any modifications, when you go to start your assembled rebuild for the first time and it won't, you need as few potential causes as possible. Also, no component is 100%-reliable, you'll be pissed if you find the cause is a dud e.i. you bought ages ago and can't get a replacement or a refund. cry Otoh, if you get the bike running on points, then fitting an e.i. mostly restricts problems to newly-fitted components. :bigt

Btw, same advice applies to the charging system. You'll undoubtedly read at least one post that says the original separate rectifier and Zener diode were junk, and what transformed the poster's life was a shiny new combined regulator/rectifier. Speaking as someone who's run all his Britbikes on shonky old rectifiers 'n' Zeners for thirty-five years (that've somehow managed to run electronic ignitions, electric starters, 100/55 quartz-halogen headlamps and other modern conveniences for tens of thousands of miles cool ), again I suggest at least getting the bike running with what's in the 'basket' before straining your plastic? smile

Hth.

Regards,

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Who was it that said the day you fit Electronic Ignition is the first day you start updating all your electrical system wink

I've not tried the Wassel, but out of the Boyer, pazon sure fire, pazon altair and points. I still prefer the points (apart from the service elelment) but the Pazon sure fire has been the best unit I have fitted so far. If you can find the room I'd fit a dual output coil too.

If your going to make improvements to your electrical system, a new loom wouldn't go a miss and neither will new switches either (mainly the main switch on the side panel)

If you update the charging system, I strongly recommend fitting an RM24 (3 phase high output) Alternator and rotor, you will need a 3 phase regulator/Rectifier to match it....


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Originally Posted by Allan Gill
Who was it that said the day you fit Electronic Ignition is the first day you start updating all your electrical system wink


'Twas RFWhatley, if my memory serves me well, among other posters, no doubt.

ECarol,

I put a Boyer on my '71 A65L last year, as I've had good experience with Boyer on my Triumphs. On all three bikes, I replaced everything ignition related. Bikes run great, better than new. My primary motivation was getting away from adjusting all those teeny screws jammed into the points cover. When I was 24 or so, my eyes and fingers worked just fine, but now, 50 years on, not quite as good. grin

Oh, yeah, I replaced the carburetors on the BSA with new AMAL Premiers, best investment ever.


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Kurt, thanks for all the info!! Lots to consider from the replys I've gotten and sometimes I feel simple solutions come 1st and this has worked well in the past. Original stuff in the electrics sounds best to me. Maybe EI later on if I have extra problems with whats in my basket now. Can't wait to get her going and hear that beautiful sound out of that 650 twin. What resistance should be on good coils and the spark plug caps? More than once have I found bad plug caps to be a solution to a dim spark on older bikes. Thanks very much for your input. ECarol

Last edited by ECarol; 01/12/17 6:36 pm.
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Thanks Stuart for your good information. After considering your post and others, I'm convinced to stay with original parts first and Maybe EI later on. Us newbies are really grateful for your knowledge!! I'll be asking a lot of questions as I start my resto. ECarol

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Originally Posted by ECarol
What resistance should be on good coils and the spark plug caps? More than once have I found bad plug caps to be a solution to a dim spark on older bikes. Thanks very much for your input. ECarol


Plug wires: Copper only. Caps: "Regular" (not resistive) - and new, if you have any doubts about yours (e.g., corrosion). You can test the coils if you like, I don't know the numbers, you can see if they're both the same, but: If there is a problem with a coil, it will most likely manifest itself under load and not show up on a resistance test. Best initial test, after the whole thing is back together, is to kick it over with the plugs out and lying on the head and see if you get a spark. *If you do this, be sure that both plugs are grounded, or it can damage the coils.*




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Hi,

Originally Posted by ECarol
What resistance should be on good coils

If marked '12V' (original Lucas coils on your bike will be marked "17M12" on the far end from the terminals):-

. between the two male spade terminals, 3 Ohms to 4 Ohms; if you get a higher resistance, unscrew the nuts securing the spade terminals and check no corrosion;

. between the HT terminal and either LT spade terminal, ~5 KOhms (5,000 Ohms) if it's a Lucas, pattern might be higher;

. between any terminal and the case, infinite Ohms.

Originally Posted by ECarol
and the spark plug caps?

Original plug wires clipped directly on the end of the plugs, joints protected by "Champion"-branded black plastic covers tight-fitting on wire and plug insulator. :bigt

Sadly, this simple arrangement has frequently been cut off by dpo, who substituted (usually NGK) conducting caps screwed into the end of the wires. frown As Mark's posted, no requirement for any resistance so any measurement between wire terminal and plug terminal should show zero Ohms (analogue multimeter) or possibly a couple of tenths of an Ohm (digital).

If your 'basket' has the wires with the original plug terminals but not the Champion covers, they're available.

Originally Posted by ECarol
Thanks Stuart for your good information.

Pleased if it helps. smile

Regards,

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The Wassell unit is made by VAPE from Czech republic, if it is a copy of the Boyer MK3 they have made quite a few changes, does seem odd to have done these changes but kept a straight copy of the Boyer mk3 on the electronic side, especially when they design their own units.

[Linked Image]

http://www.vape.cz/en/technologie/ridici-jednotky/




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"Original plug wires clipped directly on the end of the plugs, joints protected by "Champion"-branded black plastic covers tight-fitting on wire and plug insulator. :bigt

Sadly, this simple arrangement has frequently been cut off by dpo, who substituted (usually NGK) conducting caps screwed into the end of the wires. frown "

Whats the matter with NGK caps Stuart? We always used them on our racing cars without problem until our customers started asking for Magnecor leads. confused


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Hi Peter,

Originally Posted by Peter Gascoigne
Whats the matter with NGK caps

Mmmm ... original plug wires on ends of plugs - one connection.

Otoh, if you introduce "(usually NGK) conducting caps", not only do you introduce something else to go wrong (even more so since NGK stuff started being pirated frown ), there's also an additional HT connection - lead-to-cap and cap-to-plug.

The context of the advice was to the OP, asking about the resistance of plug caps and who might not know that it isn't necessary to change original HT connections. Nevertheless, from being an all-weather rider, I'm a firm believer in KISS. smile

Hth.

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All the above advice is excellent, particularly what Stuart says about the need for a multi meter.
If you stick with points , make sure you have new condensers and read the Manual about how the points adjust, each pair has two small brass cam screws which alter timing and points gap, they only work if the large pinch screw is slackened, these get mullered by DPOs .
Behind the points plate is the Advance retard mechanism, its worth checking that both springs are still there and it moves freely .

Spark plugs should be either Champion N4 or N3 ( either will work, the N4s are better if you run in towns, N3s are colder and need the motor working harder. Or NGK B8 ES.

Your bike is positive earth.When you get the meter on ohms , check the ignition switch has no resistance when closed and infinity when opened, a squirt of contact cleaner wont go amiss.

Once you have sparks it will be time to clean the carbs, paying particular attention to the pilot jet passage, buts thats another thread, google AMAL Concentric mark I pilot jet cleaning to get the whole story.
Also google "Waking the sleeping beast" loads of great info , not specific to A65 but still excellent.


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Originally Posted by gavin eisler
All the above advice is excellent ...


+1 :bigt

You can buy plug wires already made up with caps -- any forum sponsor should stock them.

I find NGK B8ES too cold, use B7ES myself.

Check out the technical articless here, especially ELECTRICAL. Especially the last item on PROPER GROUNDING, in other words, don't try to rely on the frame to conduct electricity.
http://www.gabma.us/tech-articles/



Kurt

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