Britbike forum

Classic British SparesKlempf British PartsBaxter CycleThe Bonneville ShopLowbrow CustomsGirling Classic MotorcycleLucas Classic MotorcycleHepolite PistonsIndustrial tec supplyJob Cycle

Upgrade your membership to Premium Membership or Gold Membership or Benefactor or Vendor Membership


New Sponsor post
Sales and Closeouts
by BritCycleSupply - 03/24/23 4:38 pm
New FAQ post
Disappearing User
by Boomer - 03/09/23 9:27 pm
News & Announcements
Premium members! 🌟
by Morgan aka admin - 03/31/23 11:50 am
Gold members! ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️
by Morgan aka admin - 03/18/23 4:57 pm
How to guides - Technical articles
How to Straighten Your Amal Carburettor Float Bowl
by Stuart Kirk - 03/18/23 8:38 pm
Sixth edition is now out:
The Gold Star Buyer's Companion
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Member Spotlight
Kent Shaun
Kent Shaun
Kent Garden of England
Posts: 6,626
Joined: April 2006
Top Posters(30 Days)
DavidP 93
Lannis 89
Top Likes Received (30 Days)
DavidP 31
Newest Members
blbuzzard, oldjim506, Karl J., Bikenuts, CossieMike
12,450 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums35
Topics76,815
Posts788,702
Members12,450
Most Online230
Mar 11th, 2023
Random Gallery photo
Photo posting tutorial

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
A 1970 BSA A65 Lightning. Originally found in a barn in Indiana over there in the US of A, and sold by the widow of the owner. it is in amazing unmolested condition, apart from those hideous bars! and the wrong front end, it has the original keys for both ignition and steering lock. no rust anywhere and the tank inside is all shiney and new looking. But the whole bike could really do with a good clean.
Yes there are a couple of things that need sorting, fork gaiters, bars, also the rear light lens, and guard were damaged in shipping. but with a battery connected, all the lights etc work, as does the ammeter, and when kicked over there is a good spark at the plugs, and a good oil return at the tank.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Nice clear matching numbers

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Never seen these alloy clock surrounds before, standard fitting?

[Linked Image]




''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
British motorcycles on eBay
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Label on headstock says it all... February 1970 A65L.

[Linked Image]

So that is where I have started, and now I start sorting parts, finding what's good, and also what's bad. And ordering new parts as I start to get the bike back on the road where it belongs....

As I intend to pull the top end, I have started getting a few parts for that area, de-coke gasket set was first, and while looking at the SRM site, I saw these nice tappet adjusters, which arrived today...

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]



''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
They could be chromed mounts. The c1965 models had those types of mounts - painted black. You require the full rubber binnacle.

The front end could have been changed by someone thinking that they had a 67 bike. But that's a dead straight 70. Good find!!

Forks should be the triumph type. So don't forget to open your search. Stanchions up are the same, just the sliders and oil seal holders you'll need, plus some ancillary parts for that area. Wheel again, triumph/BSA. If you want to sell those bottom parts on, let me know.

If nothing else I have the correct front brake plate and TLS linkages for your bike.

Last edited by Allan Gill; 09/08/16 1:55 pm.

Life is stressful enough without getting upset over the little things...

Now lets all have a beer!

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Hi Allan, Kev,

Originally Posted by Allan Gill
Forks should be the triumph type.
Stanchions up are the same, just the sliders and oil seal holders you'll need,

Mmmm ... yes and no.

Stanchions are only the same as the '69/'70 Triumph T25 singles and T150 triple, not Triumph twins. Sliders are peculiar to BSA twins although, from a thread some years ago, apparently singles' sliders can be used with their mudguard mounting. Oil seal holders are the same as triples and Triumph twins but, for some reason, not the singles? shocked

Hth.

Regards,

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,327
Likes: 160
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,327
Likes: 160
Okay, besides the fact it's a very nice find!!..... Since we are focused on the fork, My $.02 is that it's a '67 in disguise! A65LA motor, no OP switch, with a late tank,T-lite, front brake stop switch. After all, the guys watching the new models come to the show room would certainly compare it to the Cycle World magazine ads for the new models and raise a howl! That DOES also apply to the brake I'd guess, but If the Y bikes were mfd in '67, which happens to be my favorite year BTW, isn't that a simple answer? It's an easy last second "fix" to slap a '70 sticker on the bike before it shipped out. Always fun to guess at this stuff. Nice Find !!

Last edited by KC in S.B.; 09/09/16 11:37 am.

Down to ‘69 T120R now a Tr6R tribute bike
‘70 TR6C “happy in the hills”
‘67 A65LA (now single carb)
‘93 K1100RS heavy metal (should be gone, still here…)
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,327
Likes: 160
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,327
Likes: 160
".................. apart from those hideous bars!" I dunno, I kinda like'em........ ;~)


Down to ‘69 T120R now a Tr6R tribute bike
‘70 TR6C “happy in the hills”
‘67 A65LA (now single carb)
‘93 K1100RS heavy metal (should be gone, still here…)
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,200
Likes: 317
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,200
Likes: 317
Its got the 70 clutch, ball ramp and barrels with 3/8th bi hex nuts, probably had a front end swap after a shunt.


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 9
Life member
Offline
Life member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by gavin eisler
Its got the 70 clutch, ball ramp and barrels with 3/8th bi hex nuts, probably had a front end swap after a shunt.


I agree completely, but was it a shunt or a poorly performed stunt?

Don in Nipomo


1956 Zundapp KS601EL
1960 Greeves Scottish/Hawkstone Velorex 560
1963 BSA Gold Star Spitfire
1964 Triumph T20SM
1965 BSA C15T
1966 BSA VE
1968 Bonham Tote Gote
1969 BSA VS
1970 BSA A65L (with a "Y")
1972 Husqvarna 450 WR
1986 Yamaha TT 225
1987 BMW K75C
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
Originally Posted by KC in S.B.
Okay, besides the fact it's a very nice find!!..... Since we are focused on the fork, My $.02 is that it's a '67 in disguise! A65LA motor, no OP switch, with a late tank,T-lite, front brake stop switch. After all, the guys watching the new models come to the show room would certainly compare it to the Cycle World magazine ads for the new models and raise a howl! That DOES also apply to the brake I'd guess, but If the Y bikes were mfd in '67, which happens to be my favorite year BTW, isn't that a simple answer? It's an easy last second "fix" to slap a '70 sticker on the bike before it shipped out. Always fun to guess at this stuff. Nice Find !!


No guessing needed KC, It has everything 1970 about it. Except the front end.


Apart from the forks there is nothing 67' about the bike. The LA Y serial number was issued with the 180 day warranty and only 1970 models received the 180 day warranty, not 69 or anything previous.



Last edited by Allan Gill; 09/09/16 4:49 pm.

Life is stressful enough without getting upset over the little things...

Now lets all have a beer!

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Hi KC,

Originally Posted by KC in S.B.
no OP switch,

I agree that you can't see it in the first picture, but isn't that the port for it above the dome of the OPRV? I see there's only one idiot lamp in the headlamp shell; if that's a pre-'69 front end, could whoever fitted it have simply used the single idiot lamp for the high beam warning and left out all the oil warning parts?

Regards,

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
That they do. Even has the original domed oprv (1970 on)

The headlight looks to be for a triumph. The idiot lights on the BSA should be in line with the ammeter, not below.


Life is stressful enough without getting upset over the little things...

Now lets all have a beer!

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,740
Likes: 13
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,740
Likes: 13
B44R and B models have the same 3 hole configuration as the headlight shown. The R has a rotary light switch and the B has a toggle switch as shown.

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Thanks for the input, very helpful...

[Linked Image]


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,534
Likes: 301
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,534
Likes: 301
And now you are faced with a problem.
What are you going to do with the bike ?
Catalogue correct ?
But what if it shipped with the B 40 / B 44 headlamp from the factory ?
BSA was a big company and lots of things went wrong.
To get better shipping rates, cargo space was booked a long way in advance so as the dispatch date became closer lots of bits that will "Fill the space " got tossed on to make the cut off date for delivery to the wharves .
So if it is a low mileage bike with no evidence of a smash then what is on it is most likely original, as supplied to the dealers and bought by th customer.
So do you cherish the history as is or convert it to match the book ?


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Hi Trevor,

Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
BSA was a big company

Precisely. By February 1970, BSA and Triumph were well into their third season with common fork parts and brakes/wheels. The suggestion that production planners were so inept that stocks of the correct parts, and B25/T25 sliders, had run out - but piles of three-year-old fork and brake parts were kicking around - seems somewhat far-fetched?

I take it you never met Al Cave? I wouldn't like to claim any great insight but my distinct impression was that, if the above had happened, certain people would've had their heads displayed on stakes on the factory walls ...

Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
To get better shipping rates, cargo space was booked a long way in advance

In sailing ships to Australia, possibly. In 1970 to the US, with several competing shipping groups with big container ships to fill, any delay would've impacted more on the importer's distribution plans; if the choice was then between bikes the importer could simply shift in and out a few days later, or bikes they or the dealers had to fit front ends to, the latter would've caused far more grief than a few days' shipping delay.

Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
So if it is a low mileage bike with no evidence of a smash then what is on it is most likely original,

So it couldn't have been put to one side in favour of a Japanese bike in the early 1970's, stripped of its original front-end perhaps to fix another crashed '68/'69/'70 BSA (or Triumph) twin later - when we know spares were hard to come by - then had some crap old front end fitted to make it a 'runner' to flog in 2016, 'cos "they're werf summink, they are, mate"?

And, as the second decade of the 21st century heads rapidly for the third, you'd ride with some carp old front brake that was vintage when it was new half-a-century ago, when "catalogue" says you can fit one of the best motorcycle drum brakes? Mmmm ...

Regards, smile

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,534
Likes: 301
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,534
Likes: 301
Quote
Precisely. By February 1970, BSA and Triumph were well into their third season with common fork parts and brakes/wheels. The suggestion that production planners were so inept that stocks of the correct parts, and B25/T25 sliders, had run out - but piles of three-year-old fork and brake parts were kicking around - seems somewhat far-fetched?


Apart from dealers at the time who are on this list regularly confirming that BSA regularly sent bikes over with the wrong parts fitted from the factory. Dealers down here who have verbally confirmed that they were lucky to the 20 bikes that were all correct , it also features in 2 of the thesis that have been written about the collapse of BSA and I think Hopewood's book that included a phrase to the effect that the spares department were always having troubles filling orders completely because the production department kept pinching parts.
I do have a Dealer Buletin kicking around somewhere with rates for retro fitting the correct parts, which from what I have been led to believe was rarely ever actually paid.

Back in the days of manual production scheduling keeping tabs on all the inventory required to fill an order was not an easy job. So all you needed to happen was a small batch of reject parts and your scheduling was down the toilet and the production line could not stop for a day or two till fresh stocks of the correct parts turned up.
There was also a comment somewhere about colour inconsistency occuring because black painted parts from the spares department had to be sprayed up in that years colour due to problems with production parts.

Quote
To get better shipping rates, cargo space was booked a long way in advance
.
This was also in Koerner & Heaton as a factor that contributed to excessive production costs as scheduling was continually disrupted in order to get an export order out on time.
Koerner ( I think ) also mentioned that the prebooked freight had to be paid for regardless of weather the bikes actually shipped or not and missing slots doubled freight cost so some shipments were loss making before they were unloaded in the US.
I think Ryerson also mention something along these lines but I would have to reread him as it has been a few years since I last read his book.

And full containerization did not come in till well into the 70's
Certainly all of the images I have seen of exported BSA's had them loose packed or crated.
The very first shipping containers entered service in 1956 and that was for deck cargo only ( I went to a few 50th birthday bashes in 2005 & 2006 when I was in transport ) .However the standard sizes pallet did not come into being till 1968 and it was only after pallets had been standardized that shipping containers became standardised.

Now I am not going to speculate upon the history of this particular bike but we used to get a lot of very low mileage bikes imported from the USA down here with no evidence of accident damage but definately fitted with "wrong" parts.
Now you could very well be correct.
it could have had a front ender totalling the forks and got put away to be fixed latter on .


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Hi Trevor,

Risking Mike's snippers ...

Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
Quote
To get better shipping rates, cargo space was booked a long way in advance
.
full containerization did not come in till well into the 70's

Errrm ... I actually worked for P&O - then the largest shipping line in the world - through the 1970's. In those days, even companies like P&O couldn't afford the enormous investment needed for full containerisation and formed consortia. ACL (Atlantic Container Line) - originally a British consortium of shipping lines in the Europe-North America "shipping conference", began operating in 1967; P&O was major shareholder of OCL (Overseas Container Line), the British consortium in containerising Europe-Australia in 1971 and Europe-Japan in 1972. Smaller ships built from the late 1960's onwards were designed capable of accommodating what became standard ISO shipping container dimensions.

Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
Koerner & Heaton
Ryerson

I'm not suggesting I know everything better than the academics but, if academics are claiming that export shipping costs were a major factor in the decline of British motorcycle manufacturing, either they or whichever department in BSA handled export shipping missed very many tricks.

Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
the standard sizes pallet did not come into being till 1968 and it was only after pallets had been standardized that shipping containers became standardised.

Again, at least not in Europe; the 1.2m (note metric) pallet dimension derives from the internal width of the original 8' (note Imperial/US) standard ISO container outside width, allowing two pallets to be fitted side-by-side with relative ease but with minimal wasted space. In turn, the original ISO 8' x 8' end dimension likely derives from its use in US containerisation systems from the 1930's and worked well for intermodal as many countries already used that as a maximum vehicle width.

Regards,

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,817
Likes: 318
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,817
Likes: 318
One company I worked for tried to save money by pre booking container slots a year in advance direct with the shipping lines, fine if you have a steady business. On paper it worked but it failed badly come the first downturn, the shippers had their contract and goods or no goods they got paid for the containers. It was never renewed and they went back to using traditional forwarding agents.


Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,200
Likes: 317
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,200
Likes: 317
Pics of the fuel tank front LHS two dents, one from tope yoke, one from cable bracket, looks like a front end change. Have a lok at the lockstops for damage/repair.

Last edited by gavin eisler; 09/13/16 5:05 pm.

71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,534
Likes: 301
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,534
Likes: 301
Quote
I'm not suggesting I know everything better than the academics but, if academics are claiming that export shipping costs were a major factor in the decline of British motorcycle manufacturing, either they or whichever department in BSA handled export shipping missed very many tricks.


And neither do I.
However I did not say it was MAJOR factor but it was a contributing factor.
Please do not put words into my mouth.
We have to remember that profit margins were quite slim on motorcycles.
BSA was under massive pressure from the USA to reduce prices to closer match those from Japan and doubling the shipping costs took a big slug out of profits.

While we can only speculate upon what production difficulties BSA was under it would be very safe to say that production scheduling and inventory control was a major problem.
So much of a problem that even when BSA was short of capital they thought it prudent to invest £ 100,000 in 1967 on the computerised production control system and that decision was made in the light of the failure to get the bikes to the USA in time to make the selling season.
According to Ryerson the groups profit for that year dropped £,500,000 so if the board was happy add 20% to that figure says a lot about the gravity production scheduling problems.
Perhaps Alister had run out of poles to mount heads upon.



Bike Beesa
Trevor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,534
Likes: 301
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,534
Likes: 301
Originally Posted by NickL
Until i lived here i wouldn't have believed some of the stuff that was sent out here, so using up old parts to fill the 'Colonial Bin' does not surprise me at all. It normally just meant retrieving it from the reject bins and transferring it.
Look at it from Beezers point of view.... Small market, long way away, etc. 'They are used to making do'


Most of the weird & wonderful factory original bitzas that were sold down here in the 60's were bikes that did not sell in the USA as our summer comes after the north.
Thus BSA were able to cut cost by filling Australian & New Zealand orders with unsold US stock and funny enough lots of these were the "despach panic specials " so the first orders that arrived came from the UK these were either the Home models or General Export models then the balance came from the USA mostly West Cost models but I can remember seeing what I now know to be East Coast on the floor as well.
This made buying things like throttle , clutch & brake cables a disaster as you can have 4 different ones but all of the spares we got were for whatever model we were supposed to get that year.
As you know we ride all year round so the factory could start on next seasons models earlier by supplying the balance orderss with surplus USA stock.
It was not uncommon to see the East Coast, West Coast & general export models all sitting on the showroom floor at the same time.
Up untill 1950 Australia was BSA's biggest export market.
There was some sort of political problems in 1950 so we got almost no 1951 models and then BSA hit the USA market big time.
However Australia remained the second largest export market for the BSA -Triumph group right until the bitter end.
So were were a big market , just not the biggest.

Last edited by BSA_WM20; 09/14/16 7:28 am.

Bike Beesa
Trevor
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,200
Likes: 317
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,200
Likes: 317
this bike is not factory fresh,18K miles on the clocks if they are original, the head has been painted black, rear Shocks dont look stock,clocks are scratched, new petrol pipes and clips, dents in the tank, missing clutch cable rubber,this has been used a fair bit. AFAIK all twin carbs after 68 got the TLS brake.
My money is on a front end prang, with new / old wheel, fork legs, lamp bucket to get it useable again.Even re using the old 70 brake cable with the switch, these older parts would have been easy to fit on to return the bike to the road.Nothing wrong with it the way it is, how does it run?


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
Your right Gavin, 68' twin carbs all got the underslung TLS only the thunderbolt and royal star which did not, 69 on ALL A-series models received TLS of the cable following the fork type.


Life is stressful enough without getting upset over the little things...

Now lets all have a beer!

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,625
Likes: 92
Parts Dealer
Offline
Parts Dealer
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,625
Likes: 92
The 1970 LA-Y models are very unique. You have a very interesting model. Good luck on reviving it and putting it back where it belongs.... on the road!

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
I have started putting together some parts as I ready to start on the bike on Sunday, and as it is a Kempton jumble this weekend I shall see what else I can find to get this old thing back on the road....


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,194
Likes: 30
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,194
Likes: 30
Sourcing a proper front end would be very beneficial, brake is much more effective than what you have now. I just found out is much better than my stock disc brake on my 73 T 150.
The same with forks, I like them better than my 73 Trident forks.

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Hi Adam,

Originally Posted by Adam M.
I just found out is much better than my stock disc brake on my 73 T 150.

More work needed on the disc brake? wink

Regards,

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,194
Likes: 30
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,194
Likes: 30
Yes, comparing stock to stock BSA drum wins ( not taking into consideration much higher weight of the Trident ).
I already started improving it by changing stock pads to Ferodo Platinum, which under a touch feel 10x more abrasive than stock.
However I still can't try it, as I'm waiting on valve adjusters from Gale Gorman who agreed to send them free of any charges which is very generous.
Unfortunately I had two cases of dropped pushrod, one caused by pinch rocker box spring and one of them caused partially thread removal from one of the adjusters.

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
It was a good day walking around Kempton Jumble today, I managed to get a few things for the Lightning, so I can now start to get this thing headed back towards the road.
The first things on my list were the handlebars, and the Lucas rear light, well as you can see I found some new Triumph western style bars, and I also found a genuine Lucas rear light unit. These two items alone have transformed the look of the bike.

Before..

[Linked Image]
After..

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

I have new gaiters to fit, new fuel taps, and fuel line. but first tomorrow I will be pulling the head to see what the top end looks like. :bigt


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
People are strange when you're a stranger
Faces look ugly when you're alone
Women seem wicked when you're unwanted
Streets are uneven when you're down

When you're strange
Faces come out of the rain
When you're strange
No one remembers your name
When you're strange
When you're strange
When you're stran
ge


So said the Doors.... And in some cases it seems to be true, especially when you start looking at old bikes that have an unknown history, and just when you think you have seen it all, up pops something new that makes you chuckle to yourself, whilst at the same time makes you recoil in disbelief as you wonder what other little surprises await as you dig further into that "new" old bike!

Today I started pulling the top end apart to try to discover the cause of low compression on one cylinder, so the first thing that needs removing is the tank, which as had already been noted had the wrong fuel taps fitted....

[Linked Image]

but what I discovered here left me speechless, in an amused bewildered sort of way!

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Yes, that is an ariel coaxial cable joining piece!

laughing


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 9
Life member
Offline
Life member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 9
So the previous owner was a cable guy huh?
That's a strange approach to mounting petcocks, don't know how people arrive at decisions like that.

Kev... you need a passenger grab rail.

Don in Nipomo

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Tank off, and deeper in to the mire...

Original Lucas harness.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

pistons are at +20, and there is evidence of previous problems. as this light scoring proves, but this looks worse in the picture than it actually is, you can't feel it with your finger nail, so a light honing should be fine here.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Valves seem to be sealing well, but will be removed, later for head overhaul. So that only leaves one place for the compression loss, it must be the rings?

[Linked Image]

And that proves to be true when the barrels are removed, and we find that all the rings are solidly stuck in, on the R/H piston, causing blow by, on this cylinder. Time to order some new rings.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

beerchug


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 9
Life member
Offline
Life member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 9
Kev, did the bike come with a head stay?
I haven't spotted one yet.

Don in Nipomo

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,200
Likes: 317
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,200
Likes: 317
Unstick the rings by heating the piston crown with a heat gun, then slapping a wet cloth on to chill, repeat till the rings pop out. They may even be reusable if they aent too corroded.


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Originally Posted by D.Bachtel
Kev, did the bike come with a head stay?
I haven't spotted one yet.

Don in Nipomo
No Don, missing in action?

:bigt


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Originally Posted by gavin eisler
Unstick the rings by heating the piston crown with a heat gun, then slapping a wet cloth on to chill, repeat till the rings pop out. They may even be reusable if they aent too corroded.


Too corroded, pistons are salvageable so shall just find some rings..

:bigt

I love a good project.


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
Kev, those types of Pistons (with the cut always that look like something of Dr Who) were prone to cracking and dropping the skirt. I would Suguest looking at fitting a set with the 3 small oil control holes for and aft of the piston to prevent problem in the future.

A hone may fix your problem. Are you doing it your self or sending it in?


Life is stressful enough without getting upset over the little things...

Now lets all have a beer!

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
Originally Posted by Stuart
Hi Adam,

Originally Posted by Adam M.
I just found out is much better than my stock disc brake on my 73 T 150.

More work needed on the disc brake? wink

Regards,


Agreed, or see how poorly the same TLS on the pre OIF A65 is compared when fitted to a Rocket3


Life is stressful enough without getting upset over the little things...

Now lets all have a beer!

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Hi Allan,

Originally Posted by Allan Gill
see how poorly the same TLS on the pre OIF A65 is compared when fitted to a Rocket3

Mmmm ... my T150 has one and, while I wouldn't choose the drum over a disc if, say, descending an alp two-up with camping gear, and it fades about two-thirds of the way through a race-track 'parade' - usually on Steep Drop Hill into Squeaky Bottom Bend frown - on the road it should do what it says on the tin without drama, especially if anyone's done the usual match the shoes to the drum, adjust the shoes correctly, etc., etc.

Regards,

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
Originally Posted by Stuart
Hi Allan,

Originally Posted by Allan Gill
see how poorly the same TLS on the pre OIF A65 is compared when fitted to a Rocket3

Mmmm ... my T150 has one and, while I wouldn't choose the drum over a disc if, say, descending an alp two-up with camping gear, and it fades about two-thirds of the way through a race-track 'parade' - usually on Steep Drop Hill into Squeaky Bottom Bend frown - on the road it should do what it says on the tin without drama, especially if anyone's done the usual match the shoes to the drum, adjust the shoes correctly, etc., etc.

Regards,


just re read my statement, made it sound like it was better with the heavier bike.

On my A65, I had the drum skimmed and over sized shoes fitted to suit. once it started to bed in it has a real good bite, too good infact so when I use the brake its only at limited pressure. I set my friends rocket3 up the same and the only difference being the brake light switch mid cable (I dont think this helps at all) Whether the weight of the bike is enough to overcome the wanting to lock the brake. But I would personally prefer the T140 or T160 disc brake conversion. And if those brakes arent powerful enough then Norman Hyde does a twin disc conversion. He also does a floating disc arangement too... A lot of pretty add-ons to be had if your willing to spend the cash.


Life is stressful enough without getting upset over the little things...

Now lets all have a beer!

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 409
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 409
So you own a bike owned by Larry the Cable Guy, petcock problems?, GIT-R-DONE. Pretty decent looking bike for being 46 years old.

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,194
Likes: 30
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,194
Likes: 30
+ 1 to Allan post about the pistons.
Buy yourself a very decent set of JCC pistons ( $ 100 a pair on Ebay.com )+ good Goetze rings from Walridge ( Canada )for cheap as well and be done with cylinder / pistons problem for the next 20 years smile.
Same with the head, stock stuff is too low quality to work longer than 2 years, Kibblewhite valves and guides give you much longer service.
They are expensive, so to make it little cheaper you can go with iron guides - they work well with those valves. Had them in my engine for 3 years.

To the brake part discussion my take is as follows :
- over sized shoes and skimmed drum is the beginning - the shoes have to be arc to the drum,
- the slider's tang should be tight in the brake plate.
Those gave me 2 finger brake with solid bite at the beginning of braking.
Reading through early T150 tests, opinions about front TLS brake were mostly favorable.
This info about could be relevant for Kevin in the future

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Originally Posted by Allan Gill
Kev, those types of Pistons (with the cut always that look like something of Dr Who) were prone to cracking and dropping the skirt. I would Suguest looking at fitting a set with the 3 small oil control holes for and aft of the piston to prevent problem in the future.

A hone may fix your problem. Are you doing it your self or sending it in?


Doing it myself Allan.... :bigt


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 9
Life member
Offline
Life member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 9
I wouldn't use those pistons either, nothing but trouble... wink

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

You're going to need a headstay, besides the obvious advantage of keeping your engine from bouncing around in the frame you need it to mount the horn relay.


Don in Nipomo

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Deciding which pistons to use is a lottery when buying from the internet or online shop, most places now use a generic picture of a piston, not a specific piston, and in some cases not even a BSA piston? I had in mind to fit a lower compression set at this time, but they seem to be double the price of the standard 9-1 compression kits, I have no idea why. So I have ordered a set of +20's from a well known supplier over here in the UK. We shall see what I get.

I am not too concerned over the whole front end fork thing, if I was into restoring the bike then maybe, but I am only building a general rider, so as long as it is clean and reliable, I will be happy, and then I may put things "right" at a later date, if I feel the need.


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,194
Likes: 30
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,194
Likes: 30
Just trying to pass my experiences about this bike ( my is 70 Thunderbolt ) learned during 8 years of ownership in the "school of hard knocks". How do you use it, it's your business.
I wrote about front end + TLS brake, because it makes general rider from this bike for me.

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Originally Posted by Adam M.
Just trying to pass my experiences about this bike ( my is 70 Thunderbolt ) learned during 8 years of ownership in the "school of hard knocks". How do you use it, it's your business.
I wrote about front end + TLS brake, because it makes general rider from this bike for me.


Hi Adam, I hope I didn't come across as ungrateful, far from it, I really appreciate all the input I have received in this thread.

:bigt


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,194
Likes: 30
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,194
Likes: 30
Rereading my answer again feels snappy, but it wasn't my intention.
Everybody has his own circumstances and experiences shaping his actions.
Canada is very different from GB and what could be natural here is probably not there.
Good luck with your project.

Last edited by Adam M.; 09/21/16 3:30 pm.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Here is a question for the rivet counters amongst you, I ordered some replacement rocker cover dome nuts, as the ones on my bike were a little tarnished (not quite rusty) as you can see below...

[Linked Image]

but the ones that turned up from the BSA parts people are different, as you can see, but which ones were fitted in 1970?

[Linked Image]

I also received my new pistons too...

[Linked Image]

:bigt


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,200
Likes: 317
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,200
Likes: 317
The new dome ones, never seen that nipple type before. radius all sharp edges round valve cutouts and polish tops on piston crowns before fitting.


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
Only the centre ones should have been domed. The outer should be normal nuts. That said I have it the other way around deeper nuts in the middle and the nicer looking domed nuts on the outside. They should be 1/4 BSF from memory


Life is stressful enough without getting upset over the little things...

Now lets all have a beer!

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,194
Likes: 30
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,194
Likes: 30

Could you show the inside of these pistons ?

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
of course, tomorrow.


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
A couple of pictures from todays visit to my lockup, first up is the front wheel I picked up yesterday at Shepton jumble, as you can see the brake plate is nice, but the rim is shot, so I think I may well get a new rim fitted when I do the front end change.


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Left and Right AMAL 930's, R41, and L42, soon to be heading for the ultrasonic bath.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

The old pistons were/are Hepolite's

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Back at the last Kempton Jumble, I picked up a nice set of Craven Comet panniers, and an old rack that may well end up being fitted to the Lightning.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

beerchug


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,913
Likes: 127
Ride safe today!
Offline
Ride safe today!
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,913
Likes: 127
I see that your carbs are 930/41 and 42
those mumbers was mounted on my A65L 1970 and I was curious what model those carbs was for?
the proper from the books are 930/34 and 35 which is now mounted

above is not a big issue just curious which model 41 and 42 are ment for from the beginning.
cheers
Morgan


Morgan Johansson
BritBike.com.
Support Britbike forum & upgrade your membership
------------------------------
Join our British motorcycle forum on Facebook
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
I think you may be putting too much trust in the book, Morgan. There is no reason to believe that your carbs, and my carbs are not original fitment.


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
I had a quick glance and couldn't find reference to the 41 42 carbs. A search on the site didn't show anything up either. John Healy may know better but it's possible that when the extended tickler was released on new carbs that some carbs changed their designation number. It's only a guess though. The fact that you both record having these carb numbers shows that it's 99% possible they were original fitment.

Main thing is you have

#3 slide
2 ring needle with clip in the top slot
106 needle jet
Extended jet holder
180 main jet

Wouldn't do any hard to change all those parts for new and fit premier slides. Firstly though, check that the flange is flat.


Life is stressful enough without getting upset over the little things...

Now lets all have a beer!

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
I am going to ask AMAL/Burlen, they have extensive old records, they once told me about an old carb I had on a road rocket that wasn't "in the book" but was factory fitment.

All these old factory records and serial numbers are really only a reference guide, and should not be regarded as set in stone.
:bigt


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
I sent the head off to SRM this week for full refurbishment, and have also ordered one of their sump plates with magnetic drain plug.

I intend to fit an external oil filter to the bike, and have a choice of two, the standard "Norton" style with screw on filter, and a BSA B25 canister filter, but I can't find a suitable place to fit either? if you have fitted a filter to your A65, could you post a picture of where and how.


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 895
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 895
Originally Posted by Kev.
Here is a question for the rivet counters amongst you, I ordered some replacement rocker cover dome nuts, as the ones on my bike were a little tarnished (not quite rusty) as you can see below...

[Linked Image]

but the ones that turned up from the BSA parts people are different, as you can see, but which ones were fitted in 1970?

[Linked Image]

I also received my new pistons too...

[Linked Image]

:bigt


Those rocker cover nuts look like Norton Commando exhaust rocker cover nuts.


Mark F.
'52 ZB34 Gold Star.
'65 Lightning Rocket.
'74 Roadster Commando.



Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 9
Life member
Offline
Life member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 9
The new ones look correct for the inner or top pair.

You'll never see them with the tank on unless you really get down and peek..

[Linked Image]


Don in Nipomo

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Hi Kev,

Originally Posted by Kev.
external oil filter to the bike, and have a choice of two, the standard "Norton" style with screw on filter, and a BSA B25 canister filter,

You're also aware of the Andy Gregory/Tri-Cor England filter, that uses the a triples' element? Fwiw, I've one of these on my T100, mounted pretty-much as in the picture, the T100 has plenty of space there.

Andy also offers an "oif" version; the inlet is in a different position, rather than there being any functional difference between "pre-OIF" and "OIF".

Hth.

Regards,

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
I just ordered and received this new SRM magnetic sump plate assembly for the BSA Lightning. The quality is outstanding as I hope you can see from the pictures.

I also sent my head off to SRM to have new valves, guides etc. It is right about now that I hope the bottom end is all ok! everything seems fine but I won’t know for sure until I fire the bike up. A scary thought.

[Linked Image]

beerchug



''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
It has been a wet day here in the UK, heavy rain on and off all day, so not too much done with the A65, but I did manage to hone out the bores on the barrels, and run the carbs through the ultrasonic tank. maybe if it is dry tomorrow I can get a bit more done.

[Linked Image]


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Originally Posted by Adam M.

Could you show the inside of these pistons ?


Out with the old, in with the new...

Old pistons...

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

and in with the new pistons...

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

:bigt


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,194
Likes: 30
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,194
Likes: 30
Thanks Kev, but I thought about the insides of new pistons smile.
They are not relieved like JCC pistons around a gudgeon pin, so being in your shoes I'd check their weight comparing them to originals. I remember some Australian made pistons being much heavier than originals and I personally would avoid those.
Your gudgeon pin's circlips are not my favorite type as well.
Personally I prefer the type without any part of it hanging in the front of a pin, because in this case pin's end holds it in it's place. In the case of your circlips, pin can push it out of it's place hitting it during engine working.
Piston's rings are OK, but you can get Goetze made rings in GB now, which are also cast iron but have a spring for the oil ring and their quality is really high.
They will give you much better oil control than average cast iron rings.
Sorry for mostly negative post - just wanting to save you some pain with BSA in the long run.
Don't take my opinions for granted, I hope the rest of the guys involved with A 65 will comment.

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Adam not negative at all, the pistons I removed were not the originals as they are +20, are they the same make as original equipment? As for the circlips, I actually prefer this type, these are the same as I use on the Moto Guzzi, and they seem to fit nice and tight.
I never got to weigh the pistons against the ones removed, but as I said it would make little difference as I wouldn't know if those were heavier or lighter than the standard ones.


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Pulling it all apart, putting it all together.

I have now for the moment taken the motor as far apart as I intend to go for the time being. I have drained and flushed through the crank cases, and was pleased to find no metal in the drained oil after letting it stand in the tray for a week, and filtering it off over a strong magnet.

The cylinder head has gone off to SRM in Wales for full refurbishment, which includes lead free seats, new guides, valves, springs etc. This work wasn't cheap by any means, but it should last me out, and make for a good top end. I am looking forward to getting the head back so I can button up the top end.

Last weekend I cleaned off all the old base gasket material, and fitted the new pistons, I also honed out and painted the barrels ready to be fitted. I would have fitted the barrels but the supplied base gasket in the kit I bought was for the 1/2" stud version cases and not the 3/8" as required on the later cases, so again I find myself waiting.

Next I turned my attention to the front end and dropped out both fork legs, water had got in through the torn gaiters, and was evident in both legs, water came out of the right hand side, but the left hand stanchion is at the moment seized solid. So I have left it soaking in some penetrating oil for the week, I shall see how it does this weekend.

:bigt


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Hi Kev,

Originally Posted by Kev.
the supplied base gasket in the kit I bought was for the 1/2" stud version cases and not the 3/8" as required on the later cases,

Risking putting my foot in it, I thought 'earlier' cases had 1/4"-dia. barrel base studs? confused

Regards,

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
I was of course wrong with the stud size, but I was tired when posting


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
The inside of the new pistons? ok then as you asked...

[Linked Image]

I called round to see my old friend Terry the Vincent today, just for a cup of tea and a chat, always a good way to lose an hour, and whilst there Terry gifted me an original genuine pair of of AMAL alloy levers, you see lots of new and a few original Doherty versions, but the Doherty's are thicker and straighter in the lever, where the much rarer AMAL version have a slimmer profile, and are flatter where your fingers rest.
These are in great condition with the original stamped clamps, although one lever end has a little road rash.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

beerchug :bigt


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,194
Likes: 30
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,194
Likes: 30
Really envy your ability with the camera Kev.
I'm terrible in this regard.
Anyway difficult to say what these pistons are, I hope not JP - people had problems with them.
I'm just baffled they don't have relief around piston pins.

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
I am going to sell the whole lower fork assembly including front wheel brake etc, the forks are removed and stripped down and will require new stanchions etc before use, one slider will also need a little work as it has a tight spot which had seized the forks up? the front wheel is in fantastic condition though.


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
The lightning seems to have taken up residence on the bench right now, the whole front end is out, the head is away at SRM having a full on valve job, I was hoping the head may have been completed this weekend but not so. As can happen sometimes, I managed to break a piston ring fitting the barrel, and the broken piece of course dropped into the crank cases, and could not be seen. But some fishing around with a telescopic magnet found it in the bottom of the cases. So after again fitting a spare ring to the piston, and some help from Paul, I managed to get the refinished barrels in place, bolted down.

[Linked Image]

Next it was time to fit my new SRM magnetic sump kit, after removing the old studs I offered up the new gauze filter, only to find that it did not fit! it seems that SRM sent me out a kit for a B50 or other single, as the hole in the gauze was too small (8.5mm instead of 11.5mm) to go over the scavenger pipe. Luckily my old filter gauze was in very good condition, so I decided to use that rather than wait for a replacement from SRM.

Then it was just a case of bolting it all up to the underside of the motor.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

:bigt


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 60
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 60
Hi
I'm a newbie to this forum so hope it's ok muscling in on this thread which I've read with interest. I've also bought an unregistered lightning USA which is virtually identical to Kev's. It has matching numbers a65la10997 y. I'd like to know what year it is. The us title says 1970 but there isn't a date on the frame tag sticker only the stamped numbers(untapped) the vintage mcc dating gurus say It left the factory 5 Jan 1967 which concurs with bsa oc info posted online which says A65 LA relates to 1967. However, various clues on the bike indicate its later than 67 : 2 screws on metal tank badge; twin leading front brake; bsa 'watermark' on engine numbers tag. Bantam John (bsa parts specialist in uk) tells me the bike probably had a replacement bsa engine at some point with bsa dealer restamped engine number to match the frame.

Contributors to this thread suggest la65 -y relate to 1970 - apart from looking at parts on the bike itself which could have been changed over the years, I'd be interested to know whether mine is 67 or 70. Could someone explain please why la -y does not relate to 67 as indicated by bsa docs within uk?

Cheers

Ian


Sunbeam S7 Deluxe 1949
Suzuki GP100 1979
Suzuki GT500 1977
BSA B31 1949 ZB Plunger
BMW R1150 RT 2003
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,817
Likes: 318
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,817
Likes: 318
Quote
Could someone explain please why la -y does not relate to 67 as indicated by bsa docs within uk?


The BSA owners club is UK focused and does not worry about what happened in the US despite the majority of BSA's output going to the US.

There is a really long thread on this board which explains more but can't find it. In short if it has a -Y but a 67 number but has 70 parts its a 70. There may have been a 1000 67 A65's that were made and had to be re-exported but there is more to the story than the BSAOC has on their website.

Just to confuse matters more there are 70 bikes stamped with a Y not -Y but that is a reference to extended warranty.

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Hi Ian,

Firstly, welcome to the Forum. smile

Originally Posted by Ian T
bought an unregistered lightning USA which is virtually identical to Kev's. It has matching numbers a65la10997 y. I'd like to know what year it is. The us title says 1970
Contributors to this thread suggest la65 -y relate to 1970
Could someone explain please why la -y does not relate to 67

Note there is a significant difference between "-Y" (Dash Y) and just "Y". The thread "kommando" couldn't find is http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=403236#Post403236, be prepared to be there a lo-on-ng time ... and note there will be short test afterwards. grin

Originally Posted by Ian T
various clues on the bike indicate its later than 67 : 2 screws on metal tank badge; twin leading front brake; bsa 'watermark' on engine numbers tag.

Are the engine numbers and "bsa 'watermark'" stamped into a 'pad' raised above the surrounding crankcase metal? Are the nuts holding down the barrel base to the crankcase 12-point rather than normal 6-point, does a 1/2"AF 12-point ring spanner fit (ignoring that the barrel material might be a bit close for just any spanner to fit completely), are the studs into the crankcase 3/8" o.d. and threaded UNF? If so, more clues it's more-likely '70 rather than '67.

Originally Posted by Ian T
the vintage mcc dating gurus say It left the factory 5 Jan 1967 which concurs with bsa oc info posted online which says A65 LA relates to 1967.
Bantam John (bsa parts specialist in uk) tells me the bike probably had a replacement bsa engine at some point with bsa dealer restamped engine number to match the frame.

As the saying goes, "Denial ain't only a river in Africa" ...

Hth.

Regards,

Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 60
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 60
Thanks for your replies guys.

OMG! I didn't realise all the discussion about LA Y bikes! How complicated. The answer to all your Q's, Stuart, are 'yes' therefore it looks as if my bike is a 1970 bike after all which concurs with the US title. I have actually applied to BSAOC dating officer for a dating letter so I will wait with interest. Hopefully thereafter I can start the uk registration process.

Thanks for your help guys. This looks like a great forum! I'm going to post a separate message about gearbox cluster removal...


Sunbeam S7 Deluxe 1949
Suzuki GP100 1979
Suzuki GT500 1977
BSA B31 1949 ZB Plunger
BMW R1150 RT 2003
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
We need pictures, just so you know.

and welcome

So another Y bike, we will soon have enough for our own sub section :bigt


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
Ian, if you take the seat off and look at the bolt mounting brackets, this will tell us a lot, 69/70 frames had different seat brackets to 67/68 and pre 67 had them different again.

Some 69/70 frames had fairing tubes welded to the headstock, this wasn't on earlier frames and all 69/70 frames were fitted with a swing arm which had bronze bushings and not rubber silent block bushes, the swing arm bolt was also solid where as the earlier ones were hollow.

As already mentioned, all 70 engines had a bsa embossed number block, as did most 69's but the very early 69's were on a raised block, but not machined flush or bsa stamped.


Life is stressful enough without getting upset over the little things...

Now lets all have a beer!

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 60
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 60
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Here are a couple of shots of the frame. The front of the seat doesn't latch onto a part of the frame - I wonder if this has broken off?

Do these photos help identify the year?

Thanks guys


Sunbeam S7 Deluxe 1949
Suzuki GP100 1979
Suzuki GT500 1977
BSA B31 1949 ZB Plunger
BMW R1150 RT 2003
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,200
Likes: 317
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,200
Likes: 317
3/8ths bihex barrel studs/nuts make it 1970.it will have a vertical clutch cable entry as well. The seat should have a pair of forks/ bracket at the front to engage with the horizontal bar at the rear end of the frame top tube.


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Top end should all be back together this weekend if I don't go to a Guzzi camp in Gloucester....


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 448
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 448
I can see the remnants of the front seat bracket in the picture. It either broke off or someone cut it off.
I've had several A65 with the Y and from all my research they are '69, '70 specification even though the serial number suggests it's a '67.


reliccycles.com
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,194
Likes: 30
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,194
Likes: 30
If you plan to put it together this coming weekend Kev, don't forget to anneal the gasket even when new, and cover it with copper cote both sides.
I hope the bottom of your head will be machined by SRM.
After you start riding, proper retorque is essential to keep your cylinders sealed.

Last edited by Adam M.; 10/25/16 4:05 pm.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
My head having returned from SRM, was now ready to be fitted, and after a question asked in the competition section, I equipped myself with some copper sealant, and a pair of small o-rings, so I was ready to go.

Barrel and gasket prepared and ready for the head to be fitted..

[Linked Image]

Head looking good too..

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

:bigt


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
How do you guys torque the outer four head nuts, I can't fit a socket/torque wrench on these four, so have done them by "feel" using a spanner.


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 14,952
Likes: 511
Well'ard Rocker
Offline
Well'ard Rocker
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 14,952
Likes: 511
You can buy a "crowfoot" open-end wrench that has a 3/8" or 1/2" drive hole on it, mount it at 90 degrees to the shaft of the torque wrench so that the overall length is correct, and torque it that way.

I don't bother, though ... "feel" has always worked well for me. Have never had a head leak.

Lannis


The worst prison is the one that you don't know that you're in.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,200
Likes: 317
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,200
Likes: 317
Get a 1/2" af ring spanner, weld a 1/2" drive adaptor to it use the wrench on this with the spanner at 90 degrees to the torque wrench.


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,758
Likes: 380
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,758
Likes: 380
Looking good!


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, a BSA, & some Japanese
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Now where was I?

With the head all bolted down, and the rockers installed, it was time for some new SRM adjusters to be fitted...

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Next on the list was refitting the exhaust system...

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Now I have a couple of questions....

1. can someone tell me the thread size of the rocker cover head studs, the end that goes into the head. As I need to run a tap down the threads in the head.

2. I am after the part number for the oil tank drain/filter gasket.

Thanks.


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,200
Likes: 317
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,200
Likes: 317
Centre studs are 1/4 BSF tapped in the ally.


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 684
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 684
The pictures are well lit and in focus too, yay!

And the pipes are stock/original?

What is the latest opinions about the mushroom tappet adjusters?

Looking good kev!


Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,194
Likes: 30
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,194
Likes: 30
I'd use phenolic distance pieces between head and the carbs.
In town and in the traffic jam they can save your carbs from overheating.

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
My little BSA has had to take a back seat for a while, I just can't find the correct forks for the bike, so it is just sitting on the bench until something turns up.


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Hi Kev,

Originally Posted by Kev.
My little BSA has had to take a back seat for a while, I just can't find the correct forks for the bike,

Risking asking a silly question, you do know that '70 BSA forks are essentially the same as contemporary Triumph forks? The only really BSA-peculiar bits are the sliders; fit Triumph sliders - and ride the bike :bigt - 'til the Beeza bits come along?

Hth.

Regards,

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
Or leave the triumph sliders on and don't change them because they don't looks any different laughing


Life is stressful enough without getting upset over the little things...

Now lets all have a beer!

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Hi Allan,

Originally Posted by Allan Gill
Or leave the triumph sliders on and don't change them because they don't looks any different laughing

I did wonder ... I couldn't see any difference but, as most other '69/'70 forks part numbers are the same as Triumphs, I thought Small Heath must've given the sliders different part numbers for a reason I couldn't see ...?

Regards,

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
They could have their differences but as the wheel fits the same they look close enough for me not to be too worried if it was mine.


Life is stressful enough without getting upset over the little things...

Now lets all have a beer!

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
I can't find Triumph ones either, I ave been looking. I have the correct wheel now with 8" twin leading brake. One will turn up.


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Hi Kev,

Originally Posted by Kev.
I can't find Triumph ones either, I ave been looking.

confused

'70 BSA twins used the same stanchions as the singles, including the TR25 - Googling "97-3906" says they're down the road from you at Classic Motorcycle Spares.

The 97-3921/2 sliders are common to the entire '70 Triumph range and BSA's except the twins.

I'd use Triumph 650 springs.

All the seals, washers, etc. are common to both the Triumph and BSA ranges and thus widely available. When Googling several of the part numbers of the larger parts, both Burton Bike Bits and Hawkshaw usually come up. As well as them consider Grin, TMS, Yeomans and - just up the road from you - Reg Allen, most of whom do the large bits second-hand as well.

I.e. none of the Triumph bits are exactly rocking-horse poo ...

Hth.

Regards,

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,200
Likes: 317
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,200
Likes: 317
I have a 70 A65 front end laying around unneeded PM me if you want them. Its got stanchions but they are V rusty, the sliders should be useable.


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Quote
I have a 70 A65 front end laying around unneeded PM me if you want them. Its got stanchions but they are V rusty, the sliders should be useable.


Hi Gavin, I did not see this reply, it was just pointed out to me. Sorry I can't PM you your inbox is over limit?

Kevin.


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Engine is all bolted up now ready to go, I put some spacers between carbs and head today, bought some new cables at Kempton yesterday, close now, just the front end to get sorted. bought a Triumph front end from the bay, fitted new stanchions bushes etc, took it to the lockup to fit on the bike, but the stanchions don't fit the BSA yokes? Too loose in the lower yoke, and wrong taper for the top yoke. so now I have a set of Triumph forks I don't need. Just going around in circles with this whole front end situation.


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Hi Kev,

Originally Posted by Kev.
bought a Triumph front end from the bay, fitted new stanchions bushes etc, took it to the lockup to fit on the bike, but the stanchions don't fit the BSA yokes? Too loose in the lower yoke, and wrong taper for the top yoke.

Certainly if you tried to fit "Triumph ... stanchions" in the current '67 lower yoke, yes, they will be too loose. And, in the recent thread, A65 Fork sliders different lengths, "kommando" posted that Triumph and BSA top yoke tapers are different.

Originally Posted by Kev.
Just going around in circles with this whole front end situation.

I appreciate that you might not have the interest to read many threads here, but the knowledge is available if you ask before you buy "from the bay"?

At worst, Gavin will be back in a few days (I think shift work stops him contributing for periods). As you posted, you've waited six months; a few more days is better than wasting your money on bits that won't fit? As the post before Gavin's says, the correct BSA stanchions were (still are?) available new not far from you? You're going to need these even if you buy Gavin's front end.

Regards,

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,200
Likes: 317
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,200
Likes: 317
PM sent to Kev regarding forks.
I no longer work/ retired but I am busy occasionally on sailing trips/ gardening.
The donor bike for the forks was a V low mileage 70L, it had smashed a lump off the gearbox when the chain snapped, I am fairly sure the Front end with the 8 inch TLS is original.


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Thanks Gavin & Stuart, help appreciated.


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Thanks to Gavin, I now have the correct forks for my 1970 "Y" bike, so time to get this ready for the summer.


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Making progress..... https://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com

more next week when the forks should be fitted :bigt


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 9
Life member
Offline
Life member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 9
Good job Kevin. I dig the blue Tygon lines. You'll get it on the road before the end of Summer for sure.
Fine looking motorcycle! What tires did you select, I don't recognize the tread?


Don in Nipomo


1956 Zundapp KS601EL
1960 Greeves Scottish/Hawkstone Velorex 560
1963 BSA Gold Star Spitfire
1964 Triumph T20SM
1965 BSA C15T
1966 BSA VE
1968 Bonham Tote Gote
1969 BSA VS
1970 BSA A65L (with a "Y")
1972 Husqvarna 450 WR
1986 Yamaha TT 225
1987 BMW K75C
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Cheers Don, the fuel line is Italian Ducati line, the tyres are Mitas dual sport enduro tyres


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 9
Life member
Offline
Life member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 9
I see, the MC 24 Invader 70/30 DOT approved and rated.
New to me but an attractive tread! I like 'em.

You'll be sure to tell us what you think of them.

Don in Nipomo

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Anybody got a good quality scan of the 69/70 wiring schematic they can send me?


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Hi Kev,

You have incoming.

Regards,

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Thanks Stuart


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Ok then every weekend I am a little closer to the road, so back to the forks....

Can someone please tell me the thread form/ stud size of the four lower axel cap retaining studs.


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 368
Likes: 11
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 368
Likes: 11
Kev.,

I did not fully understand with which forksyou have ended up with. confused

Subject to your bike having proper 69 or 70 shuttle valve sliders, the bolts for the fork end caps are 5/16" UNF.

According to the spare parts list and my own experience there should be bolts, no studs. Given, a stud is a better solution for this application.

Cheers!

Phil


Best regards
Phil
Celle/Germany
'62 A 65 Star (disassembled)
'69 A 65 Lightning
'71 A 65 Firebird
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Thanks Phil, I now have the correct 69/70 shuttle valve forks, although mine came with studs and not bolts, I just need to get a tap to clean up the threads, I can then get the bike off the bench, where it has languished for far too long.


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,481
Likes: 46
Hi Kev, Phil,

Originally Posted by Phil in Germany
According to the spare parts list

Mmmm ... certainly Triumph versions of the '70 sliders had studs. Most available '70 parts books showing bolts were dated for the beginning of the season in July 1969 or just after, which means they were prepared during the '69 season. However, the 3rd edition of the 1970 T150 parts book wasn't published until January 1970, and shows studs. '70 is well-known for a number of other mid-season changes (for example, grey- to black-face speedo. and tacho.).

More practically, when working on your own, sliders with studs are easier to locate positively over the axle than sliders without. :bigt

Studs are 5/16"UNF on both ends.

Hth.

Regards,

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 394
Likes: 2
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 394
Likes: 2
Mine is a 69 Lightning and the threads on the four fork cap bolts are 5/16 UNF.

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,200
Likes: 317
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,200
Likes: 317
Get one of these. This year in particular has all sorts of threads, i can confirm the studs with the forks I sent had 5/16 "UNF threads.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/55-Deg-Imperial-60-Metric-Thread-Pitch-Gauge-Measure-Screw-58-Pieces-Blades/332183196481?_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D43781%26meid%3D5c28ce961dfd45dc8ac7fafc83137fe6%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D371701833943


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 368
Likes: 11
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 368
Likes: 11
Sorry for confusing your thread with my remark on the spare parts list and bolts, Kev. I should have been more precise.
AFAIK the BSA shuttle valve sliders used bolts with the mentioned 5/16" UNF thread.

I have now a fork of a 70 Lightning basket case I recently bought with a mate on the bench, according to the wrong stanchions I am inclined to think it's a Triumph fork. These sliders have studs. But the plonker who fiddled with it before has obviously chosen to use metric M 8 studs... eek

Cheers!

Phil


Best regards
Phil
Celle/Germany
'62 A 65 Star (disassembled)
'69 A 65 Lightning
'71 A 65 Firebird
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Does anyone have a picture of the 1970 year clock bracket for the Lightning with or without clocks fitted :bigt

Last edited by Kev.; 01/23/18 7:42 pm.

''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 123
Likes: 4
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 123
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by Kev.
Does anyone have a picture of the 1970 year clock bracket for the Lightning with or without clocks fitted :bigt


I suggest you search ebay. There are always a few for sale there, usually with decent pix.


Ray Elliott
---
A65, A70, A75, T120, T140, T150, T160
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
Originally Posted by Ray Elliott
Originally Posted by Kev.
Does anyone have a picture of the 1970 year clock bracket for the Lightning with or without clocks fitted :bigt


I suggest you search ebay. There are always a few for sale there, usually with decent pix.


I want to be sure it is the correct part, if someone has a 70 Lightning, with the correct bracket fitted I will know for sure what I am looking at


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
This

Not This

The latter type mounts off the handlebar clamps, thus the bolt position is narrower, the first type is for all the flat top yokes, so 66' onwards.


Life is stressful enough without getting upset over the little things...

Now lets all have a beer!

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276
In Remembrance
OP Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 276



Originally Posted by Allan Gill
This

Not This

The latter type mounts off the handlebar clamps, thus the bolt position is narrower, the first type is for all the flat top yokes, so 66' onwards.



No pictures Allan?


''Then out spake brave Horatius, the captain of the Gate: To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?''
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,076
Likes: 323
You have to click the Links Kev, the this and not this are both hyperlinks :bigt


Life is stressful enough without getting upset over the little things...

Now lets all have a beer!

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (now rebuilt)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  Allan G, Jon W. Whitley 

Link Copied to Clipboard
British Cycle SupplyMorries PlaceKlempf British PartsBSA Unit SinglesPodtronicVintage MagazineBritBike SponsorBritish Tools & FastenersBritBike Sponsor






© 1996-2023 britbike.com
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5