Classic British SparesKlempf British PartsBaxter CycleBritBike Sponsor SteadfastCyclesSRM EngineeringLucas Classic MotorcycleHepolite PistonsIndustrial tec supply

Upgrade your membership to: Premium Membership | Gold Membership | Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Welcome to BritBike Forum!
Britbike forum logo
Member Spotlight
DavidP
DavidP
Crossville, TN
Posts: 7,155
Joined: October 2008
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,793
Likes: 134
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,793
Likes: 134
I got this G15 frame some time ago in a package deal, in trade for a 1980 HD (AMF) Sportster; it came with a Honda 750, a set of messed up Roadholder forks, and an AMF (Aermacchi) 250 Knucklehead.

Frame pix as I received it

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, a BSA, & some Japanese
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!

Check out British motorcycles for sale: British Motorcycles on e-Bay UK, British motorcycles on e-Bay North America
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,793
Likes: 134
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,793
Likes: 134
I never had much use for the chopped/raked frame, so rather than have to drag it around, I slapped some parts on it so I could roll it araound, and have a place to keep some spare parts rather than crowding out my already over-loaded shelves.

"MatchUmph" (or is it a "TriumphLess"?)

[Linked Image]

Over the years, I have sat all kinds of tanks, seats, and other bits on it, when I needed a place to stash spare parts.

Not too long ago, I finally started using some of those spare parts including the front fork lowers and the rear wheel. I also obtained some more pre-unit Triumph parts, so those got pulled off.

Yesterday, I finally decided to de-rake the steering head. The rake job was covered in Bondo, and for good reason...

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, a BSA, & some Japanese
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,793
Likes: 134
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,793
Likes: 134
I was not prepared for the ultimate bodgery that lurked beneath the somewhat neat-looking steel plate that covered the rake job...

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Pieces of pipe, hunks of steel, blobs of Bondo, and bits of plate

[Linked Image]

Truly hard to believe.


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, a BSA, & some Japanese
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,793
Likes: 134
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,793
Likes: 134
The steering head is trashed.

[Linked Image]

Check out a hammered-flat threaded end of a piece of pipe, welded in as a spacer

[Linked Image]

Last edited by GrandPaul; 10/01/15 3:35 pm.

GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, a BSA, & some Japanese
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,793
Likes: 134
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,793
Likes: 134
What I need to know next is, what is the easiest way to set a replacement headstock in place at the correct angle?

I've found a very good photo of a G15CS and made an AutoCAD drawing base from it, then traced in the frame elements and forks as closely as possible. Next, I determined the angular relationship between the forks and front downtubes. I think I can jig everything up using those references, but I'd rather have an actual value to compare it to.

A measurement from front axle to rear axle would be helpful, also (wheelbase).

Help?

...I can ALMOST see building one of those post-apocalyptic / steampunk bikes out of this...

Last edited by GrandPaul; 10/01/15 3:38 pm.

GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, a BSA, & some Japanese
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,793
Likes: 134
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,793
Likes: 134
I searched this section and see that I asked this same question before, still no answer.

I'm going to just eyeball it and do a quick comparison to my P11, then tack on a replacement steering head and mock it up. If it looks decent, I'll weld it up and move on.

It's not a restoration, after all...


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, a BSA, & some Japanese
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,080
Likes: 2
J
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
J
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,080
Likes: 2
Hi GranPaul

Cool looking project. You wouldn't have a extra toolbox like the one on your chopper around would you? I need one for my Norton n15cs. Thanks Jeff

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 13,892
Likes: 133
Well'ard Rocker
Offline
Well'ard Rocker
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 13,892
Likes: 133
Originally Posted by GrandPaul
I searched this section and see that I asked this same question before, still no answer.

I'm going to just eyeball it and do a quick comparison to my P11, then tack on a replacement steering head and mock it up. If it looks decent, I'll weld it up and move on.

It's not a restoration, after all...


I don't know anything about the steering head or angle, but I do know that you've got more faith than I do in "recovering" this trashed frame!

If I'd come into possession of it, I'd have thrown it away as scrap. Now that I know that there are mad folks who will actually tackle the salvage operation, however .... !

Lannis


It's easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,219
Likes: 5
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,219
Likes: 5
GP, I can hardly believe what I see here.. You will have my eternal respect if you will succeed in turning this piece of crap into something decent.


Peter.
1974 Commando 850
1972 Trident T150T
1961 Goldie DBD34
1969 Benelli 250 sport special
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,393
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,393
Couldn't you find a donor frame, and take a few inches of the frame tubes along with the head stock?

I don't know how scarce those frames are. Perhaps another model has the same geometry so it may widen the field.

I almost don't want to say this but I have stretched a lot of bikes but I always filled the gap with weld. 30-40 passes. Jig-ed, and cooled between each pass.

That man was a lunatic! One good pothole, and it would have been "post apocalyptic".

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 854
O
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
O
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 854
bless you for saving that good English frame from chopper hell.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,024
Likes: 6
H
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
H
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,024
Likes: 6
i have what i think is the same frame that was hardtailed but seems to be a stock rake. it came with a g12 motor and i have no idea if that is compatible. it was in an accident by the looks of the fork legs that game with it. it seems that the front downtube cradle maybe tweeked, i cant really tell by eye. but the head stock casting looks good.
it does have some bondo on it but i don't believe the neck was raked because the tube lengths looked stock.
it maybe easier to cut this neck off and see if gp can splice it in his frame.

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,393
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,393
Folks seem to have all sorts of sales records on these old bikes. Aren't there mechanical drawings somewhere?

I would have to believe there are.
Just the question on wheel base should have an easy answer but yeah... Splicing a few inches of frame will be the easiest method.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,024
Likes: 6
H
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
H
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,024
Likes: 6
head stock appears cast. the tubes are of course tubes. for an experienced fabricator its a basic fix.

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,766
Likes: 126
knuckle head
Offline
knuckle head
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,766
Likes: 126
From welding on lug frame Harley's and Triumphs the so called cast parts are malleable iron that is stronger than cast and can be welded with normal techniques..I assume other old Brit frames are the same?
At the least you have to secure the frame on a level table or platform.. Then using an angle finder or degree level get it sitting level and plumb side to side and front to rear using shims or whatever before considering any work on it...


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons.."I don't know what the world may need
But a V8 engine is a good start for me
Think I'll drive to find a place, to be surly"
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,024
Likes: 6
H
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
H
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,024
Likes: 6
so these frames were welded as opposed to brazed?

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,649
Likes: 77
T
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
T
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,649
Likes: 77
Originally Posted by hacksaw
so these frames were welded as opposed to brazed?


Tubes were brazed into malleable cast iron lugs, or welded to other tubes. Welding tubes into lugs sounds very strange.

Welding must be tricky, with brass spelter in the joint.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,766
Likes: 126
knuckle head
Offline
knuckle head
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,766
Likes: 126
Originally Posted by hacksaw
so these frames were welded as opposed to brazed?


Factory brazed them as mentioned....I meant welding brackets or similar onto the lugs when modifying the frame. I have seen original looking Triumph frames with spot welds on the tube and lug joint...
Look at this 60's 650 Triumph frame in my shop. It appears the factory spot welded the frames while in the jigs and then oven brazed...The gas tank bracket is fully welded to the steering neck...

[Linked Image]

And here's a 70 frame with more spot welding. This may only apply to Triumph ?
[Linked Image]


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons.."I don't know what the world may need
But a V8 engine is a good start for me
Think I'll drive to find a place, to be surly"
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 23
D
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
D
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 23
Any update on this Paul?


Moderated by  Matchman62 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Job CycleBritish Cycle SupplyMorries PlaceKlempf British PartsPodtronicVintage MagazineBSA Unit SinglesBritBike SponsorBritish Tools & FastenersBritBike SponsorBritBike Sponsor






© 1996-2021 britbike.com
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5