Britbike forum Forums British Motorcycle specific Brands Triumph bulletin board Drive Chain lubrication

Hi Folks I know this is a stupid question that must have been discussed before but I can not find the answer on the forum search.

I was taking good care of my new chain (I thought) spraying it with chain oil and then with chain wax at regular intervals, however I have taken it off while fixing a few other things and was surprised by the bad state it was in (only about 1000 miles on it).

What is the consensus (if I may be so bold to assume there is one:-) ) as to how to oil it both off the bike and on.
Boil it in oil / grease / propriotary goo?
Spray with the usal graphite sprays?

Aplogies if this starts an oil-type war.

Thanks

Brett

Hi Brett -

Define 'bad state'. Broken/cracked rollers? Axial or radial play in the links? Stretched beyond adjustment? Rusted?

As with most things for these old bikes, there's well-built parts, then there's crap.

I've never boiled my chain. I probably have about 7-8K miles on it, I think I cleaned it in kerosene once. I just hit it regularly with motorcycle chain lube, but I always do it right after a ride when the chain is still warm.

Steve

I don't think mixing oil & wax is a good idea. I like PJ1. It doesn't fling off as bad as some. I also take the chain off, clean it with some spray cleaner, then lay it stretched out on a board or piece of cardboard to lube it. Before you take the chain off, hook another chain to it and pull that one over the sprockets. Hook the freshly lubed chain back up to it and reverse the procedure. Makes chain replacement easy.
Good chain costs good money.
Check adjustment frequently.

Hi,

Its a standard Reynolds chain, was primarily rusty and seemed very dry of lubrication, no physical damage. When I took them master link out it was rusted along the pins, which makes me think it is rusted in all the other pins too.

Thanks for the ideas.

Brett

Do you ride in the rain or use a pressure washer to clean the bike?

I like Motul chain lube, the black can. I started using it on high speed open primary chains and it hangs on much better than others I tried. Yes, on the competiton bikes the primary chain was totally dry after just 6 laps! Not so with Motul, it was step forward. So if it works that good on open primary chain, then rear chains would be easier going, so I've used it ever since. No oil wars please, just saying, worth a try.

Chains need to be warm before using lubes like chain wax.
John Healy has cautioned, a sure way to wear a chain is to spray it BEFORE a ride. HTH.

clean em in the parts washer, then oil em up. no grit, no grease, like oiling a new chain.

I ride a lot on gravel roads and I clean the Bonnie's chain every 1000 miles when I change crankcase and primary chaincase oils.

As previously suggested, I pull an old chain on as I pull off the chain to be cleaned. Coil the removed chain up at the bottom of a large pot (4qt). Add a 1/2 cup of kerosene and swirl it all around for a minute. Drain and repeat until kerosene remains clear - about five or six times. Then blow the chain off with compressed air.

Each time you drain the kerosene, use a rag to remove all the grit and sludge that will settle out when you tip the pot. You'll be surprised by the amount of grit that comes out of a chain - sometimes 2 or 3 teaspoons.

When you drain the dirty kerosene off, save it in a good container and set it aside. The finest grit will settle to the bottom by the next time it's time to clean the chain. You can reuse the kerosene many, many times.

While the primary chain case drains overnight I let the clean chain soak in the cleaning pot covered in heavy weight chainsaw bar oil - the thick, viscous, red stuff. Next morning, hang it up to drip and then wipe down with a clean rag before re-installing.

Desco mentioned importance of chain adjustment, i.e. tension. It's also very important to keep your bike's rear tire properly aligned as well. I like the mason line method of tire alignment. For a few tips on using this method see www.hermit.cc/tmc/technote/alignment/index.htm

Finally, I agree with the warm chain idea. I keep a gear oil bottle full of bar oil and each time I return to the Bonnie Castle from a ride I spin the rear wheel with the bike on the center stand and squeeze a little oil over the chain just in front of the swinging arem.

Hi Brett,


Assuming you mean "Renold", as used to be made in Manchester and supplied to BritBike makers, bear in mind it's been made in China for years and whatever now owns the "Renold" name don't recommend any of their current chain for motorcycle use ... After a bad experience with a Renold back in the 1980's, I've always used Japanese since.


Which unfortunately suggests whatever you're using/doing isn't working.

I like continuous lubrication ... the chain is running continuously when the bike's in use ... seems logical to me? After all, it's something like eighty years since anyone thought is was ok to hand-operate an engine oil pump every now-and-then?

I favour a Scottoiler. But, if you don't want to drill and tap a manifold, there are plenty of similar systems that use other ways of operating the pump.

Put it this way - I first used a Scottoiler on a Jap bike I was using on a daily 70-mile round trip in the early 1990's, I installed it with a new chain and the bike did about 10,000 miles in the first year, which used up about half the adjustment; I still have the bike and the chain, it still has probably a quarter(?) of the adjustment left. So far, I've yet to replace a Scottoiler-lubed chain.

Nice thing about a continuously-lubed chain is you don't need to do anything to it after a wet ride, you don't need to do anything to it after a dusty ride, it isn't rusted to a solid bar if you haven't used the bike over the winter ...

Hth.

Regards,

Interesting information about the renold chain, mine came in a box labeled specifically as renold motorcycle chain Manchester England, and it was from a reputable supplier (walridge). It seems high quality.

Are you sure these are Chinese non-motorcycle chains? seems unlikely to me

Mike(partridge), can you chime in?

Brett

Depends entirely upon the type of chain lube you are using. Most of them contain a volatile element designed to decrease the viscosity enough so that it will penetrate the links of a cold chain. If you spray this on a hot chain, my thinking is that the volatiles will immediately boil off and prevent the then thick and viscous lube from penetrating.

Or not, but the chain lube makers aren't complete idiots. They know that most of us will be spraying the lube on a cold chain and have compensated for that.

I don't have chain wear problems even though I've never sprayed chain lube on a hot chain. Just saying. Perhaps check the chain lube instructions and follow those. You should be fine

As far as genuine Renold chain, I think by now the existing stock of the real thing has probably dried up mostly. You might find some of the odd sizes still....

It's a travesty that we can't get the original and still the best Renold chain. I think it was miles above any of the competition based on my own rather severe testing and it actually fits our bikes without banging and grinding against parts down there.

I've heard good things about the Jwis chains, and although I've never had the opportunity to use it, I think it could be a winner.

By the way, how do you pronounce that, anyway? I've always thought it might be Gee whiz.....or something.

Now, riding in the rain is the best way to ruin a chain. You would really need some continuous lube if you rode every day in the rain or you would be changing chains monthly.

Oddly enough, the fastest wearing chain I've ever had was an O ring chain. I paid 50$ for it and it was pretty with a gold plated finish, but it was basically junk. Just saying, you might just get what you pay for....

Cheers,

Bill

As mentioned above spraying chain lube on a cold chain, and going for a ride, lubes everything, but the chain. It just flings off from centripetal force.

Not if you bought a bike from our dealership. We encouraged owners to lubricate their chain just before putting the bike away after a ride. Also when riding in the rain to lubricate the chain at intervals during the ride. Owning a shop the only time I got to ride long distances was when the weather forecast predicted several days of rain. With the shop quiet my wife, and the help, would set me off to get me out of the way... Always got cranky when things were slow. Dunking the chain in melted chain lube, and using TriCor chain lube during those rainy days, I got damn good service from chains.

When we raced we would keep two chains and swap them out before each race weekend. When we took one off it went straight into the can of melted chain lubricant and left hang to dry. This way we would get several racing seasons out of these chains.

David Holder holds large stocks of that Renold chain.

I agree with Dave. I spray mine with Chain Wax after a ride, while the chain is still warm.

Maybe once a year, I pull the chain (using an old chain as described above). I coil the chain into a round 9" metal cake pan that I stole from the kitchen. I got caught the first time, and the wife rolled her eyes and said she didn't want the pan back. I clean the chain in mineral spirits, letting it soak and then scrubbing it with a stiff parts cleaning brush. When it is clean, I blow it off with compressed air and let it dry. Then I clean out the cake pan and coil the chain back into it. I heat it up with my heat gun till it is maybe a little warmer than it would be after a ride. While it is good and warm I spray it liberally with the Chain Wax and let it set up.

Well, that's what I do -- Stuart's Scott Chain Oiler is probably the more sensible way to go, but I never claimed to be the sharpest crayon in the box. Plus, there is no throw-off with the Maxima Chain Wax.

Ray

Hi Brett,

According to Renold's website, the head office address is "Trident 2, Trident Business Park, Styal Road, Wythenshawe, Manchester M22 5XB. Afaict, this is Google Street View.

Couldn't find anything on the Renold website specifically relating to motorcycle chains?

Regards,

Hi Owen,


Unfortunately, these old heaps pre-date certainly the wide availability of '-ring' chains, the designers of the engines didn't leave enough clearance for the additional width of '-ring' chains so, if you want to use one, you have to faff around having sprockets ground so you can use a 520 or 525 chain.

Otoh, Fraser Scott advised me back in the 1990's that a Scottoiler'd work perfectly well with a conventional non'-ring' chain.

Hth.

Regards,

I got decidedly different service from race bike chains as opposed to street bike chains and the service I gave them differed, too.

My Speedway chains got thoroughly cleaned then cooked in a pot of various types of lubricants mixed together, just like a lot of folks here do, as frequently as I could. I raced as many as four nights a week and it just wasn't possible to do it after each race. The thing was to get it REALLY clean before lubing it.

Which casts some suspicion on spray lubing a street bike chain in situ whether hot or cold. You just might be chasing dirt INTO the rollers and doing more harm than good. Perhaps it would be better to use a high pressure wand with solvent before you ever sprayed the chain down with lube.

However, we're talking about street bikes here, not race bikes and not bikes that make 150bhp, either. However, the power is not always the culprit when it comes to rapid wear, either. Big displacement singles are in my opinion much harder on chains that multis....

But dirt is a killer of chains, so combining high bhp with dirt means a short life for a chain. Nothing could be harsher on a chain than a Speedway bike, I think.

Knock on wood, I've never thrown a chain. But, lots of folks have based on the basket cases I've worked on over the years. Seems like it was common occurance...

I should have thought that my 850 Commando would eat chains for lunch, but it has not been the case. Near 60k miles now and only two chains means to me that the shock absorber in the wheel hub is doing its job nicely. Without that, no chain could last very long, chain lube or not.

Cheers,

Bill

This has been an elucidating discussion on chain lubes and oiling techniques, but...

Brett said that the observable problem is rust, and there's only one way that can happen: Water or moisture was allowed to remain on the chain.

No matter what your lube of choice (FWIW, I like Chainwax), the chain must be lubricated any and every time it gets wet, either from riding in the rain or washing the bike. Make sure the chain is well lubricated when put up for storage, especially if stored in a damp place.

Thanks for all the help Folks.

I've only ever once been caught in a short downpour, obviously did not lube it enough after. I'm going to try it in melted grease type stuff just for the hell of i, along with better oiling afterwards.

Here is a pic of the Renolds Chain Packaging.

Might have been old Stock?

Hmm, that's another possibility, that the rust was there when you got it.

If there isn't much corrosion, the chain can be salvaged, but before greasing, I would soak it in kerosene, then hang it up and blow it out with compressed air.

I use the old fashioned system but with a more modern lubricant. Every 1000 miles I clean the chain really thoroughly in a solvent bath and then use Putoline chain wax that you heat up. When the chain is soaked in this it gets right in to the moving parts. I then use Wurth dry chain lube every so often. This latter stuff is the best one I have found in a spray can. It is very thin when it goes on and could probably be used on its own. My chain hardly ever needs adjusting.

In the past I have had terrible trouble when using a spray other than the Wurth and no chain bath. If I left the bike a week after a ride the chain would be seized up in parts with patches of rust. It's the salt on the winter roads, I think.

Stuart's Scott oiler is a good idea.

dave

Here's one chain discussion from '14. A good subject to re-visit now and then to see what people are doing.

http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=564640

Hi Brett,

Post about Renold trade mark.

Regards,

I used to ride my 67 650 about 3000 miles a year...I changed the oil twice during the riding season..I took the chain off and soaked it in the engine drain oil for an hour then hung it up overnight....The chain lasted 5 years..

Hi Folks, reviving an old thread but I thought about this question (reynolds chain quality) this weekend and did a bit of googling, it seems there was a public spat some years ago regarding the fact that the reynolds chains were alleged to not meet the relevant standards. This was later retracted.

FYI, here is the link I found.

http://www.jampot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13660

Regards

Brett