Classic British SparesKlempf British PartsBaxter CycleBritBike Sponsor SteadfastCyclesSRM EngineeringLucas Classic MotorcycleHepolite PistonsIndustrial tec supply

Upgrade your membership to: Premium Membership | Gold Membership | Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Welcome to BritBike Forum!
Britbike forum logo
Member Spotlight
Ron T. in KY
Ron T. in KY
Northern KY
Posts: 407
Joined: August 2001
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 12 of 47 1 2 10 11 12 13 14 46 47
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,142
Likes: 103
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,142
Likes: 103
Have an original mudguard on the Norton, all my other bikes get them fitted as it does work. Skimpy mudguards look cool but in West Scotland conditions do not work, so either move to sunnier climes or fit mudguards. Also another reason to stay with factory specified thin tyres instead of cool looking wide tyres.

Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!

Check out British motorcycles for sale: British Motorcycles on e-Bay UK, British motorcycles on e-Bay North America
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,723
Likes: 134
G
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
G
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,723
Likes: 134
The tanks back story, my old man was in the Polish 1st armoured division and captained one of these things. The allies kept the 1 st armoured div in Scotland until the final push in France, from 1940 -44 they were building coastal defenses in Scotland. No match for Tigers and Panzers the Cromwell was fast but under gunned and under armoured in comparison, I have a pic of my old mans tank somewhere showing welded on man hole covers as added Armour. He was invalided out with a leg full of shrapnel after the Battle of Falaise and met my mother to be in a hospital in Glasgow.

back to the bike.

The outrigger plate John supplies with the 5 speed cluster need careful fitting , he advises this is best done with the cases split, some trimming of the mounting flange may be needed.
Also John has found with the cluster fitted in his test bike , there are some minor clearance issues with subtle amounts of casing removal needed for the extra gears, this was very minor on his bike, but the later 71 castings are a little heavier all round so I expect I may have a little more work to do.
@kommando, i have been down the tyre width changes before, back to stock widths after pointless experimentation.

The alloy tank has been welded up at Ramsay ladders , I now need to find an oven large enough to anneal it, 390 -410 C ( I think?) , the pottery up the road may be able to help .

Last edited by gavin eisler; 01/26/16 6:11 am.

71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 13,804
Likes: 95
Well'ard Rocker
Offline
Well'ard Rocker
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 13,804
Likes: 95
Originally Posted by Adam M.
It's not a madness Gavin.
For me BSA has 2 flaws:
- pre OIF is the small bike and after I retire I'd like to take my wife with me from time to time,
- it still vibrates and this tires me so every trip longer than 200 km is a problem.
This is why I wanted to try a Trident, which is not as big and heavy as my old Japanese bruisers and its still a Britbike.


I've been in exactly the same situation.

As Allan says, the dry frame BSA can be made to be very smooth with dynamic crank balancing and an EI to make sure cylinder firing is synchronized.

However, be sure to sit on a Trident or Rocket with your wife before you make the plunge. The motor is certainly as smooth as anything you will find, and plenty of pull for two-up, but physically it's not really much longer than an A65 and will not have much more room. Check it out first.

In my situation, I bought a Commando. About 2" longer and two disc brakes ......

Lannis


"Why do you wear that thing, Dobby?" "This, sir? 'Tis a mark of the house-elf’s enslavement, sir."
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,681
S
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
S
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,681
I was reading about a guy moaning about the vibration of his Trident but after 35 years of riding twins when I get on my Trident I have to say "what vibration?"
But, no, it isn't any bigger than my OIF Bonnie


When given the choice between two evils I picked the one I haven't tried before
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,862
Likes: 123
Britbike forum member
Online Happy
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,862
Likes: 123
Originally Posted by Lannis



In my situation, I bought a Commando. About 2" longer and two disc brakes ......

Lannis


Yes, and Andover Norton do some lovely front end improvements too, it was very tempting to get one of their twin fully floating disc setups to squeeze into the beezer, very stylish!!


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,723
Likes: 134
G
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
G
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,723
Likes: 134
Strip down continues at a leisurely pace, today I removed the air boxes, chain guard , carbs, loom, battery carrier, rear mudguard with tail light and grab rail came off as one unit , handy.

Discovered an unknown defect, the coil carrier bracket has fractured where it mounts at the rubber on the timing side, weld needed. The TS airbox mount bracket has lost its captive nut, more welding.
Apart from being filthy everything came apart with no grief.

New carb brass plated slides still in A1 condition. Not much muck in the fuel filters at the banjos.

The skankiest part so far is the battery carrier rubber tray, this has turned into a sticky mess, the DS side panel rubber has seen better days as well.

An old original fault may be dealt with , I have never been able to stop the coil bracket from saying hello to the side panel, even with the panel as far outboard as the slot will allow, I think this and the added weight of the voltage reg rec may have caused the crack. needs a new location for the reg rec.

Much to my surprise all the loom connectors parted correctly, I will re use about 75% of the loom, replacing the ignition circuit and adding a few relays

I am considering 55% as a balance factor, this should move the sweet spot up the rev range a bit, currently starts getting rough at 5K plus.
No real surprises so far.
Note to self, run the loom under the coil bracket not over it.

Last edited by gavin eisler; 01/24/16 5:33 pm.

71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,723
Likes: 134
G
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
G
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,723
Likes: 134
Thanks for the gen Nick. My current gearbox shifts pretty well, but I have spent a fair bit of time setting it up, it does not shift well on the down change when the primary chain gets slack, other than that its good. I like the lathe plan, thats do -able.


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,723
Likes: 134
G
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
G
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,723
Likes: 134
Pics of new shiny bits.

5 speed cluster, lay shaft to fore showing needle roller for 1st.

[Linked Image]

Selector plate with lovely finish and extra track for selector.

[Linked Image]

Outrigger bearing and plate.
[Linked Image]

Outrigger plate mounted on mainshaft showing splined mount for clutch centre.

[Linked Image]

Main shaft sleeve gear needle roller bearings

[Linked Image]

Cluster with selector forks loose assembly

[Linked Image]

Fork stanchions , seal, lamp bucket, wires , gears.

[Linked Image]

Rear mudguard assembly and airbox

[Linked Image]

The end of the pencil indicates the cracked zone of the coil bracket
[Linked Image]

Carbon fiber side stand 133 grammes , £10 from China. I will not pay £100 for a steel club.
Better the stand is the weak point than the frame tab.
[Linked Image]

The camera certainly adds an extra scabbiness to the before pics. I will be treating rust with electrolysis, brown soup to follow.
Cheers
G


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,393
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,393
Insanely jealous of the five speed set up.

I'm waiting to find a complete engine for the price those sets are fetching.

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,055
Likes: 16
A
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
A
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,055
Likes: 16
Entertaining winter read as always, Gavin.
I just powdercoat my frames and hidden bits mainly for resistance to scratching and a low price.
Your decision to buy a five speed cluster still looks much better and cheaper to mine of buying another bike with a five speed smile.

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,723
Likes: 134
G
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
G
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,723
Likes: 134
Hi Adam, I am undecided about what type of paint to use for the frame. It wont be shotblasted, thinking of a Caustic Soda marinade after power washing with citric acid. Will probably use a brush for the frame and get the air boxes blasted and sprayed black locally.The list of frame repairs is increasing.

Manufacture and weld a slotted saddle for the tank centre mount.
Manufacture and weld a side stand bracket.
Same for footrest mounts, 2 x 1 inch OD bosses, radiused to frame tube OD tapped to suit peg mounts ( 3/8 th UNF).
Re weld the air box mounting fixed nut ( 1 x 5/16 UNF).

Trim the coil bracket and hanger brackets to prevent fouling with side panels.
Weld crack in coil bracket, trim coil bracket around perimeter to prevent fouling with side panels.

The good news is the Swing arm bearings are OK, I replaced them in 1983, and have greased them with a zealousness that can only be attained after pounding out the seized solid previous swinging arm spindle..
I am very curious to know how well the taper roller headstock bearings have lasted. I have never had to replace these , I did add fresh grease once about 20 years ago. there is no untoward play or notchiness.



71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,640
Likes: 12
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,640
Likes: 12
Originally Posted by gavin eisler
The good news is the Swing arm bearings are OK, I replaced them in 1983, and have greased them with a zealousness that can only be attained after pounding out the seized solid previous swinging arm spindle..
I am very curious to know how well the taper roller headstock bearings have lasted. I have never had to replace these , I did add fresh grease once about 20 years ago. there is no untoward play or notchiness.

gavin,

I saw this and wondered how many people in the world still have the motorcycle that they owned 33 years ago -- some do, I'm sure. Out of that number, how many remember that they replaced the swing arm bearing that year -- a lesser number, I'm sure.

Like me, you must keep a "bike diary" for each one. You often make me chuckle as I read your thread, but I always do read it. I'm still trying to decide if you wrench on your BSA so that you can ride it, or if you ride it so you'll have a reason to spanner it. Both, I suspect.

Ray


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,723
Likes: 134
G
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
G
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,723
Likes: 134
i remember replacing the SA bearings very well, it took a weekend of heat and heavy hammers, ultimately i pre purchased a new spindle and bushes so that I could get serious with the old one, it was so seized that half the old bushes came out stuck on the steel spools. I had to make a special puller extractor and ream the finished item . It had never been lubed! No diary, just memory burned in.


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,815
T
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
T
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,815
Bit off topic, Ray, but I bought my Triumph T140 new in 1976, in fact did the pre delivery on it. It has a rather large note book! Forty years worth!
Oh, and has never been out of registration!

Last edited by Triless; 01/26/16 5:48 pm.
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,815
T
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
T
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,815
This is an interesting thread, Gavin. That gearbox is beautifully made. I'm aquiring all new gearbox bits for my T140 race project, and the bits look a touch agricultural compared those components if yours.
Looking forward to your impressions when its all up and running.

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,723
Likes: 134
G
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
G
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,723
Likes: 134
@ Zombie , re expense. heres how I budget. look at wrecks on e bay, add on the cost and hassle of fixing some one else's grief , then put that in the back of your mind, dont bid on it and get some quality , one off parts ( sourced from the town where I was educated, by a loon who had the same physics teacher as me) , at a fraction of the cost instead, simple.

Last edited by gavin eisler; 01/27/16 9:52 pm.

71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,142
Likes: 103
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,142
Likes: 103
That gearbox does look good, well engineered and well machined too. I see the PES on the outrigger plate, so they do them for twins too as well as the singles.

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,723
Likes: 134
G
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
G
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,723
Likes: 134
The clutch fitted is pretty fresh, replaced basket and hub with fresh steel plates and surflex friction plates, its behaving well, no slip or drag so its going back in, not shown in the pics is the clutch centre with female splines to suit. If the clutch was knackered I would fit an alloy item.


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,640
Likes: 12
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,640
Likes: 12
Triless: I've always thought that the best way to get a classic motorcycle is to buy a good one when it is brand new, and then age gracefully with it. So, I admire you for keeping your Matchless and your T140 for so long. You did the pre-delivery on the T140? That's even better.

Gavin: Pardon my ignorance on such things, but how do you seal your primary chaincase with that bearing in place of a seal? I see that it is a "sealed" bearing, but those plastic side pieces are really only good to keep most of the grease in place and most of the dirt out on wheel bearings. They are far from being a real dynamic seal. Also, the bearing is a slip fit on the shaft, so there is no sealing action there. Where does the seal fit?

Also, what is the process for aligning this bearing with the other two on the same shaft? Will there be any machining required to accomplish this?

I'm not being negative here. I hope it all works as you have planned it. Those are just the questions in my mind as I look at your pictures.

Ray


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 416
Likes: 6
J
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
J
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 416
Likes: 6
Hi Ray

Written in the assembly instructions describes how to go about the alignment set-up. Unlike early earlier Brg support plates which were on the gearbox mainshaft and indeed requiring the alignment of all three Brg's. On this one it the final drive gear Brg and the support plate which are aligned, while the mainshaft run on needle Brg's through the final drive gear, therefore the mainshaft has a little more tolerance.

With regards to the original seal, this sealed on the final drive gear bush, to ensure that no gearbox oil found its way out onto the rear tyre, as there is less likelyhood of primary chain oil by-passing the seal.

Hope this is of help

John

Last edited by JER.Hill; 01/28/16 2:26 pm.
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,640
Likes: 12
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,640
Likes: 12
Thank you for the reply, John. I somewhat follow that. I'm sure it will become even clearer as Gavin shows us his pictures here. Sounds very interesting. I can only imagine next year's riding season in Scotland!

Ray


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,723
Likes: 134
G
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
G
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,723
Likes: 134
I had the priviledge of a test cluster assembly on John's bench, JH also supplied a detailed write up as a memory jogger. Its not quite as simple as the 4 speed ,requiring a specific order of assembly to locate all the selectors.

I havent any major concerns over sealing the primary, hotted up unit singles ( CCM and the like) have used outrigger plates for years. There are 6 potential alignments using the mounting flange , I will use the least worst of these and if needs be modify the mounting spigot to suit. I am more concerned about the size of the outrigger plate Fasteners, ( stock is 6 x 2BA fine for a seal carrier , maybe a bit under-size for a bearing load)if there is enough meat on the casings I may enlarge the female threaded holes to 6mm or 1/4 UNC depending on which countersunk heads have a chance of fitting, these Fasteners will be fitted with Loctite, maybe stud lock grade. Once fitted I dont anticipate removing the plate until the next gearbox sprocket wears out. John has shown me a few pointers here, it may not be possible to enlarge all the Fasteners , on the GB Sprocket side there is space to fit nuts on some of the Fasteners if left oversize, but the sprocket gets in the way a bit.

Currently composing a shopping list.

Nyloc Nuts and bolts , misc 1/4" 5/16", 3/8" UNF . SS 1/4" washers, countersunk head 6 off x 1/4 " UNC, half size nylocs to suit.

battery and side panel rubbers, tray and strap, frame grommets.
Gasket set.
Seals.
Gearbox sprocket 21 T and chain. Kickstart cotter pin.
Copper Sulphate. Na OH Caustic soda. Zinc plating kit.
Black Paint ( for brushing on the frame, any favourites out there?).

Looking at the headstock zone, there is a bit of free space between the support gussets , I want to fit a breather catch bottle in here so I dont need 4 feet of oil tank breather hose.
Under the seat , space will be freed up by mounting the reg rec to the base of the battery carrier and fitting the Boyer EI pack into a side panel with sticky velcro.


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,142
Likes: 103
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,142
Likes: 103
Once you start using the outrigger plate the force that was bending the mainshaft now is placed on the fixing screws for the plate so how you attach the plate becomes a lot more important.

This thread gives some solutions for Unit Singles

http://www.b50.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4603&hilit=outrigger

Screws coming undone is not unknown so loctite or wiring is a must.

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,723
Likes: 134
G
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
G
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,723
Likes: 134
Nick, when you used 5mm screws , did you tap out the existing 2BA female threads or drill and tap new mountings?
Thanks for the link Kommando, very informative.


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,862
Likes: 123
Britbike forum member
Online Happy
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,862
Likes: 123
I could have sworn the original screws were 3/16


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Page 12 of 47 1 2 10 11 12 13 14 46 47

Moderated by  Richrd 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Job CycleBritish Cycle SupplyMorries PlaceKlempf British PartsPodtronicVintage MagazineBSA Unit SinglesBritBike SponsorBritish Tools & FastenersBritBike SponsorBritBike Sponsor






© 1996-2021 britbike.com
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5