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Boo #636702 01/23/16 5:36 pm
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Originally Posted by Boo
Took the case off again, torn oil seal. WHY? I took my time putting on the case yesterday and even took it off again to check. All was ok, yet today, this. I have now fitted yet another seal, again double checking all is well.


At the risk of be-laboring a point, I had asked earlier if it is a PW (Pioneer Weston) seal?

There are oil seals and there are Oil Seals.....

Cheers,

Steve


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Boo #636703 01/23/16 5:42 pm
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https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=P+W+seals+britbike.com+site:www.britbike.com

The above link will take you to almost every conversation about that damn seal. Hopefully one of them turns a light bulb on. I hate it when you think you are doing everything right and things are still wrong.


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Unfortunately we cannot seem to locate PW seals. Where in the UK can I get some?
Started her up this morning, 85 PSI and no reduction when it got hot. God knows why this is as the pressure release valve is a known to work item from my mates Bonny. There was no difference when both were used last time so there should be no difference this time.
Next I will try the other valve and try both springs to see if there is a difference in them.
Originally Posted by JubeePrince
Originally Posted by Boo
Took the case off again, torn oil seal. WHY? I took my time putting on the case yesterday and even took it off again to check. All was ok, yet today, this. I have now fitted yet another seal, again double checking all is well.


At the risk of be-laboring a point, I had asked earlier if it is a PW (Pioneer Weston) seal?

There are oil seals and there are Oil Seals.....

Cheers,

Steve

Boo #636863 01/24/16 4:40 pm
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https://www.google.com/webhp?source...p;ie=UTF-8#q=Pioneer+Weston+oil+seals+UK
Hope this helps.
Welcome to the mysteries of the Triumph Bonneville.


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Boo #636864 01/24/16 4:41 pm
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When you thread in a new pressure relief valve there is a HUGE chance of disturbing debris from the threads. The very first start up, the valve may have locked up, and is not opening.

It would pay to chase out the threads, and clean the debris with brake/carb clean before installing a new/rebuilt valve.

Also, I prefer pipe dope/Yama bond, perfect seal, ect, on these sort of joints vs. Teflon tape. The tape can cut off in the thread, and end up in the valve.

Boo #636888 01/24/16 6:41 pm
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Erik's own PW seals.

kommando #636904 01/24/16 8:23 pm
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Just looked at Eriks. What if he doesn't need 500 seals?


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Boo #636945 01/25/16 2:07 am
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Hi,

Originally Posted by Boo
cannot seem to locate PW seals. Where in the UK can I get some?

Have you tried Reg Allen or Phil at L.P. Williams?

Originally Posted by Boo
85 PSI and no reduction when it got hot. God knows why this is as the pressure release valve is a known to work item from my mates Bonny. There was no difference when both were used last time so there should be no difference this time.

Unfortunately, the Triumph OPRV is a mortally piss-poor design. frown If you don't separate the domed cap from the valve itself before loosening or tightening the valve, you will almost certainly loosen and tighten the whole assembly with the cap hex., which can distort the valve and lock the piston ... cry

Originally Posted by Zombie
chase out the threads,

OPRV thread is Unified Constant Pitch, 24 tpi iirc; tap would be a fortune, any other method increased likelihood of damaging rather than fixing thread. frown I clean with old toothbrush and degreaser.

Hth.

Regards,

NickL #636955 01/25/16 3:47 am
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Hi Nick,

Originally Posted by NickL
OR... if a manufacturer wants to be bloody awkward with threads on his gear!

OR... if a manufacturer has come across shade-tree 'mekaniks' who'll replace an OPRV with a standard-thread bolt to 'improve' the oil pressure ...? smile

Also, what exactly are the Tracy Tools taps 'n' die for? confused "Brass" (BSB) isn't the same as "Cycle" (CEI/BSC) and neither is the same as Unified. I've used a 1/4" Brass tap to clean up a 1/4" BSF cover fastening thread but I'd hardly want to try the same on a Unified thread supposedly resisting oil pressure for the sake of possibly removing a few bits of loose swarf?

Regards,

Stuart #636964 01/25/16 6:22 am
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Originally Posted by Stuart
I clean with old toothbrush and degreaser.

Hth.

Regards,


A favourite practice of mine (well with kero anyway). I feel it has done some good at times smile RR


'72 Bonneville
"He who praises you for what you lack wishes to take from you what you have." - Don Juan Manuel
Boo #636966 01/25/16 6:38 am
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Quote
Just looked at Eriks. What if he doesn't need 500 seals?


They have lots of local counters in the UK to service the factories in the area quickly, I have bought single engine sets of seals and bearings from them. Minimum order over the counter was £15 last time I used them so I go prepared with a list and leave it with them. You may have to wait a few days for them to get the funny sizes/clearances from the central warehouse.

kommando #637057 01/25/16 5:01 pm
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I did thik of L P Williams, he does brilliant sump pluds with a good sharp thread. Ideal for when your old one is a bit tired. Will strip and clean the valve next weekend and try all the different springs and combinations. worst case I can add some fibre washers to lower the pressure and see how it goes.

NickL #637129 01/26/16 3:39 am
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Hi Nick,

Originally Posted by NickL
The Tap is 7/8 x 16 UNS. Not BSB, where did you get that from?
I suggest you actually have a look at the link

Errrm ... if you look at the actual link you posted, it says, "brass-cycle-special" ... "brass" is aka "BSB" - British Standard Brass. "brass", "cycle" and (Unified?) "special" are three different threadforms. From previous first-hand experience, I know that Cycle and Unified do not fit together, even when they are the same tpi, due to other difference in the the threadforms; given BSB is even more different from Unified than Cycle is ...

Hence my question, "what exactly are the Tracy Tools taps 'n' die for?"; it cannot be for all the three threadforms in the link because they're all different. I appreciate it says, "UNS" on the linked page but, having had problems in the past with Tracy's accuracy, and only some lengthy detective work involving a microscope will tell what the actual threadform is, I'm merely pointing out the discrepancies?

Hth.

Regards,

Boo #637880 01/31/16 4:08 pm
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Tried another pressure valve today, 80 psi, did not move much when hot, so, put in another one. Same again, so packed dome nut off with two more washers. 65 psi now, still no reduction when hot. I will take it or a run next weekend and see if it goes down after a few miles of running. Does it matter if it stays that high? It has mostly new internals and I was expecting a good pressure, but this seems a little on the high side. At least the seal is working well!

Boo #637951 01/31/16 10:48 pm
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Unless I'm missing something, I would think adding washers would raise the blowoff pressure not lower it, because you are increasing the resistance of the spring requiring higher pressure to move the valve. I think you may be going in the wrong direction adding washers to lower the blowoff pressure.


1978 Bonneville T140E
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1971 Norton Commando
1972 Norton Commando
1973 Norton Commando
1974 Norton Commando
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htown #637968 02/01/16 4:36 am
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Packing the dome nut out would relieve spring pressure. Washers behind the spring would increase spring tension.

Boo #638051 02/01/16 3:57 pm
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I assumed he meant washers under the spring not between the dome nut and the housing piece.


1978 Bonneville T140E
1974 Trident
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
1971 Norton Commando
1972 Norton Commando
1973 Norton Commando
1974 Norton Commando
2018 Kawasaki Z900RS


Everything will be alright in the end. If its not alright, its not the end.
htown #638066 02/01/16 5:22 pm
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Originally Posted by htown
I assumed he meant washers under the spring not between the dome nut and the housing piece.

No. If you add washers between the dome and the body part, then it reduces the tension on the spring allowing it to blow off at a lower pressure, hence now only 65 psi.
If I were to add washers under the spring then it would put more tension on the spring and up would go the pressure blow off limit.

Boo #638139 02/02/16 1:28 am
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Hi,

Originally Posted by Boo
Tried another pressure valve today, 80 psi, did not move much when hot, so, put in another one.

Just as a matter of interest, how are you deciding it's "hot"? I use the pressure drop indicated by the gauge as an indication that the whole engine is properly warmed-up (and can then be thraped). When I've ridden on cold days, I can go dozens of miles before I see the gauge indicate a pressure drop from cold and, on a triple, that usually involves blocking off the oil cooler. How many miles are you riding before deciding the engine's "hot"?

Regards,

Boo #638148 02/02/16 3:49 am
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Paranoia about oil pressure begins with installation of oil pressure gauges.
Ted Simon knew nothing about the workings of his engine yet it carried him faithfully around the world.

I bought my '70 T100R in a very well-used condition more than 25 years ago and have been flogging it hard ever since, yet have only ever had the primary cover off.


When people who should have known better cautioned me about the dangers of motorcycle racing, I always told them that a fear of death is nothing more than a fear of life in disguise.
Nick #638152 02/02/16 5:31 am
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Hi Nick,

Originally Posted by Nick
Paranoia about oil pressure begins with installation of oil pressure gauges.

Depends. Switches turning lamps on/off and gauges tell you different things.

Given the number of speed limits in most First World countries, and the penalties for exceeding them, would you really replace the speedo. with a lamp that goes off above just 7 mph?

Do you use the speedo. to make a judgement about appropriate speed given the conditions or do you ride with the speedo. needle precisely indicating the prevailing limit, irrespective of other conditions?

I'd much rather have too much information on a gauge and make an adult and experienced judgement about ignoring it, than the engine indicate the inadequacy of the o.p. switch/lamp by making a new crankcase vent with the mutilated end of a conrod ...

Hth.

Regards,

Triless #638159 02/02/16 7:42 am
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I know guys would put washers under the relief spring in auto engines.. let's get technical, shimming the stock spring increases preload, does it increase the spring rate as the valve opens?? Shortening the spring slightly and shimming it to original length will increase the spring rate from what I know..

I've had oil pressure gauges on many Triumphs including my race bike. Like Stuart says it takes a bit of riding to heat up the oil and see a pressure drop if the bearing clearances are reasonable.


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
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As I mentioned earlier, I have not yet taken a long ride to get it properly warmed up. All I did was run it in the shed for ten minutes. I was not expecting it to get to proper operating temperature, but I did expect at least some drop in pressure.
With a good motor recently rebuilt, am I correct in thinking that this is most likely not a problem?
All will be revealed if I can get out on it at the weekend. Bike show, Norton rebuild and car to sort first, no rush then?

Boo #638255 02/02/16 9:46 pm
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Hi,

Originally Posted by Boo
All I did was run it in the shed for ten minutes. I was not expecting it to get to proper operating temperature, but I did expect at least some drop in pressure.

Mmmm ... I know you're in tropical Cornwall, but I used to live next-door in Devon and I don't recall it being particularly warm in January ...? Bear in mind that not only is the engine radiating heat, so is the large surface area of the oil tank.

You might've "expect[ed] at least some drop in pressure" after ten minutes of tickover ... but not seeing it in January is hardly a basis for extrapolating to 'a problem', swapping oprv, fiddling with washers, etc.?

You got one of those meat thermometers - gauge on the end of a long spike? If you'd had that in the oil tank filler, the other end reached into the oil in the tank and it was showing 85C, 90C or more, you might've seen the pressure start to fall?

Originally Posted by Boo
All will be revealed if I can get out on it at the weekend.

Mmmm ... I wouldn't bank on it even then, depends on the air temperature and whether it warms up before your extremities cool down ... smile

Fwiw, I normally have three litres of oil in the triples or the T100. When I rode in winter, I used to only put 2.5 litres in.

Hth.

Regards,

Stuart #638679 02/05/16 4:56 pm
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I have a hexagon custom oil tank that will accept a temp gauge from the HD. I will give that a try when I can get the time. 180 to 220F is pretty normal temp. Torrential rain this weekend, also Shepton bike show. Busy on the Commando and T90, god will I ever learn not to take on so many things at once. Probably not!
I think 80 psi was just a little ott but 65 I can live with or a while. I will see how it goes and let you know.

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