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Hi Gary,

I have come in possession of what looks like a fairly complete West Coast Hornet Frame. A65HA.8914

It has the large oil tank and all the tabs excepting the side stand lug. There are no tabs for the Hornet pipes on the back of the frame. There are dangling from the aft foot peg lug two longish pieces of metal which when turned up look like to be the right height for exhaust support. Also there are two shorter pieces from the same place that are perhaps TT pipe supports????

Here are pictures.

Exhaust supports?

[Linked Image]

It has a Bates headlamp installed bracket down which dented the front fender (arrgh)

[Linked Image]

Here is the oil tank which has the Odie clips. It looks like a wren made its nest inside!!!!

[Linked Image]

There are 4.00X19 K70's front and rear although the rear wheel looks to be off a Lightning Rocket (Narrow 19" rim like my 1964.)

The back one is worn out but the front one has good tread but is prolly unsafe for the track. Did I say track?

[Linked Image]

So tell me what I have I got? One the back is a 68 or 69 tail light assembly minus the lense. The fenders are rusted but look re-chromeable. As I said the Bates dented the top of the front fender but the rear fender is complete and un-cracked!

The winter project begins....


Last edited by Semper Gumby; 12/04/15 11:57 am.
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Nice one Bill. Great find. I do not have that number in my '67 Hornet registry data base. It's been added.

The bracket you have your 2 fingers on, the one with the rounded end, is a rear exhaust pipe mount for the Hornet west coast TT pipes. It likely has a slight bend to it at one end. The mounting holes at each end are oversize to allow for mounting adjustments to the typical BSA "not a very accurate fit" system of parts. The other longer bracket doesn't look to be a BSA part. There weren't any tabs on the west coast frame for mounting the pipes. The inside of the pillion peg mount is where that TT bracket mounts to (as in your image).

Correct oil tank for west coast Hornet. Is there a small "L" shaped bracket at the rear lower area of the west coast tank for mounting to the threaded boss which in the frame? If so, good, as they are a bit rare to source. I've had to make a few for other WC Hornet owners.

The front fender, stays and center brackets look to be correct west coast. The rear fender would need to be shorter than a standard (lightning, Thunderbolt, etc.) fender to be the correct fender.

A lot of potential there.


1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
1965 Cyclone Competition Build
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So West Coast Hornets only had the TT pipes? I believe the there is a L shaped tap on the lower outside of the oil tank connecting it to the frame. Yep its there. It is hard attached to the tank and then the tab splits around a robber grommet which is bolted to the frame?

What was the stock rear wheel and rim size?

Last edited by Semper Gumby; 12/03/15 11:33 pm.
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Nice score, I've never seen one of those frames for sale. That outside strap is just scrap somebody added for some reason, but the dogbone shape bracket looks like genuine article.

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Gary where's he gonna find pipes? That frame NEEDS them.

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My bad Gary. The frame number is A65HA.8941. Sorry. I also have a set of cases A65.HA9409-Y.

So TT pipes are hard to come by?

Last edited by Semper Gumby; 12/04/15 12:47 am.
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Originally Posted by Semper Gumby
So West Coast Hornets only had the TT pipes? I believe the there is a L shaped tap on the lower outside of the oil tank connecting it to the frame. Yep its there. It is hard attached to the tank and then the tab splits around a robber grommet which is bolted to the frame?

What was the stock rear wheel and rim size?


That's the correct oil tank mount tab then. Only west coast Hornets had the large oil tank. The frame is also specific to west coast model, as the oil tank saddle of the frame is different.

Rear wheel size is the same as all other A65/A50's: Jones 42-6361 WM3x18 with a Dunlop Gold Seal K70 tire. That tire is still available.


1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
1965 Cyclone Competition Build
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Originally Posted by leon bee
Gary where's he gonna find pipes? That frame NEEDS them.

That is going to be a tough one. TT pipes; very, very rare. My TT pipe registry data base only has a total of 45.5 sets, 8 of those are NOS. There are a few possibles though.


1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
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Originally Posted by Semper Gumby
My bad Gary. The frame number is A65HA.8941. Sorry. I also have a set of cases A65.HA9409-Y.

So TT pipes are hard to come by?

I made the number correction in the data base. It now fits right in with a group of West Coast Hornets. Added the engine case numbers also. It may be a WC engine, as it fits in with some other WC's

TT pipes. See my previous post.


1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
1965 Cyclone Competition Build
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The front rim to be a west coast would be a WM3x19 Jones 68-5558, not common to source. So, wider than the typical standard WM2x19 mounted on the east coast Hornet and other A65/A50 models. The west coast Hornet front tire is a 4.00x19, larger than the east coast Hornet 3.50x19 and other A65/A50 models 3.25x19. The 4.00x19 Dunlop K70 is no longer made, but there are NOS ones out there.

The Jones rim numbers are stamped in, so a little chrome polish or an SOS pad and water might clean the rim in the number stamped spot to see what you have.

Having the correct front fender, stays and brackets is a biggie. Nice find.


1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
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The front rim is wider than the WM2 on my Firebird next to it. So there is a good chance this is the original tire! I have access to another Hornet frame I will scarf the correct bits off. The rear axle came off an OIF I suspect and is loose and hanging out the right side. On a good note the rear drum spins freely but the brake plate is frozen. The rear sprocket is worn down to the nubbs. Prolly driven till it wouldn't go and then left for dead.


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Yes, the rim does look to be a WM3. The front fender looks like it is on backwards.


1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
1965 Cyclone Competition Build
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Originally Posted by Gary E
The front fender looks like it is on backwards.


Isn't archaeology fun?! wink

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Last edited by Semper Gumby; 12/04/15 4:05 pm.
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Originally Posted by Semper Gumby

Those are the ones. Didn't know anyone was making them again. But read my posts in the first 64 pages of the original thread about repops not fitting of the repops set I had. There are some differences to the originals, as front and rear mounts are not the same.

What are your plans for the bike? Restore back to original or make a rider. I could check with a few sources on original TT pipes if you are going for a restoration back to original.

Note: I've got a note into John as I couldn't get the first 64 pages (a link located in the first post of this "restored" thread) of the original thread to load.


1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
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1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
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Well you know me - I like to Ride 'em.

I have visions of being on the Flat track at Aonia or perhaps some AHRMA vintage motocross (at the back of the pack). But I'm pretty sure a set of TT pipes are in its future.

Oogh the oil tank is a terrible mess. Oi vey!

Last edited by Semper Gumby; 12/04/15 5:57 pm.
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Originally Posted by Semper Gumby
Well you know me - I like to Ride 'em.

I have visions of being on the Flat track at Aonia or perhaps some AHRMA vintage motocross (at the back of the pack). But I'm pretty sure a set of TT pipes are in its future.

Oogh the oil tank is a terrible mess. Oi vey!

Well, a set of reproduction TT pipes might be better for you if you're going to race it. Especially MX. Those TT pipe stick down there in front and just under the frame. The first crash and the pipes are toast. That is why there aren't many of them around.

The Hornet might not be a good machine to do MX. Big and heavy, wouldn't handle multiple jumps very well. Maybe TT races where there is only a jump or two and turns both directions.


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Nice find Bill.......

But since that first BSA followed you home some time ago....I am seeing a trend.....hopefully we don't see you on reality TV about hoarding laughing

Like I should talk......... eek


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Man, those pipes look good even if you had to jack around some to fit them. I'd not ever seen them, bookmarked that site.

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The high pipes get in the way though. The best pipes for running about are the Firebird headers. At about 5000 rpms they acually seem to get quieter as the bike gets on the cam. And I do have an extra Firebird hanger on the wall just sittin there.

No decisions made yet still thinkin'.

Gary - I know people say that the A65 is too big to be MX'ing. But I've ridden Beno Rodi's P11 Norton and I know it's not as quick as say a Rickman VR Montesa but it was still fun. Still it's a great sound and when you hit the straights well...

All I'm sayin' is if you are grinning it OK.

Rich - I know I'm a BSA nut. No apologies. Can't get enough of them.

Ps - Thank you Gary for this thread. This afternoon I copied every picture in it to file on my computer. Thank you!

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Originally Posted by Gary E
Well, a set of reproduction TT pipes might be better for you if you're going to race it. Especially MX. Those TT pipe stick down there in front and just under the frame. The first crash and the pipes are toast. That is why there aren't many of them around.


Funny I though they would be out of the way. Humm. But if I increase the front forks an inch and the aft shocks an inch there would be more ground clearance.

Originally Posted by Gary E
The Hornet might not be a good machine to do MX. Big and heavy, wouldn't handle multiple jumps very well. Maybe TT races where there is only a jump or two and turns both directions.


Luckily Vintage MX courses in AHRMA do not do jumps. They are more like Bumps. You must be thinking of a Modern Course Sir! That would be funny. Can you imagine an A65 coming off a triple with the rider doing a suparman!? But I digress and return to ebay. Rh folding foot peg ... check. Single Tacho binical mount...check. The oil tank worries me though.

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As you say, nothing beats the sound of a British twin up on the pipe. Maybe MXing without much of jumps would be ok. It's just the pipes are bit out in front of the frame so exposed to damage. MXing though no rocks to hit, just hay bales, so the TT pipes may be fine.

As long as the oil tank is not rusted thru, it ought to be salvageable. Maybe after its cleaned fairly well, get it boiled out at a radiator shop.

Responding to Rich's post, us old guys, can't own just one BSA.

Were you able to get into The original 64 page thread via the link in the first post of this thread to work? I could not get the link to work. Got a response from John G. about it:

"The Hornet thread is a bit of a problem at the moment, I'm in the Philippines and won't be home until the end of January. There must have been a power outage at home, unfortunately the best I can do is offer an apology. It will be back up as soon as I get home. Going forward, perhaps we can get Morgan to host those pages on the same server that the main forum is on. That would be the best and
is where they really should be, with good backup of course."


The issue with the reproduction pipes fitting, is the original pipes barely clear the frame and the oil sump plate studs/nuts. As in they practically touch both at the same time. Hence the reproduction pipes have to be "dead nuts" on accurate reproduction of the originals, or they won't fit. It's very hard to change a compound curve like what the TT pipes are shaped into. Heck, I had trouble getting an original NOS set to fit right. The left pipe is against the frame and the oil sump plate bots, so the pipe has to come off to remove the oil sump plate. The right side touches the frame as it curves under the right frame down tube. And that is after relocating the pipe front mounting tab hole at the front thru engine mount stud. The reproduction set of pipes I had, just wouldn't go on. Bad fit. Sold them, told the guy good luck on getting them to fit. Got them back. Sold them to a forum member that said he would not send them back. But maybe reproduction pipes are best to MX with. I'd hate to see a set of originals out there on the track getting thrashed.

[Linked Image]


1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
1965 Cyclone Competition Build
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I actually got rid of a couple bikes this year. Traded this one to my old pal Bob:

[Linked Image]

Edit: realized tank wasn't level right after I took the picture.

Last edited by leon bee; 12/05/15 12:35 am.
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What I really want to know: BSA had a habit of just building what it thought the market wanted(?). And along comes Hap Alzina and he specks out the West Coast Hornet and BSA builds the thing and sends him bunch of them. Is there a story there or am I just romantisizing the whole thing?

Last edited by Semper Gumby; 12/05/15 1:43 am.
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Originally Posted by Gary E

The issue with the reproduction pipes fitting, is the original pipes barely clear the frame and the oil sump plate studs/nuts. As in they practically touch both at the same time. Hence the reproduction pipes have to be "dead nuts" on accurate reproduction of the originals, or they won't fit. It's very hard to change a compound curve like what the TT pipes are shaped into. Heck, I had trouble getting an original NOS set to fit right. The left pipe is against the frame and the oil sump plate bots, so the pipe has to come off to remove the oil sump plate. The right side touches the frame as it curves under the right frame down tube. And that is after relocating the pipe front mounting tab hole at the front thru engine mount stud. The reproduction set of pipes I had, just wouldn't go on. Bad fit. Sold them, told the guy good luck on getting them to fit. Got them back. Sold them to a forum member that said he would not send them back. But maybe reproduction pipes are best to MX with. I'd hate to see a set of orignals out there on the track getting thrashed.


I understand your concern Gary. But high pipes are just so in the way of tweeking the carbs. If I go the TT pipe route I try the repos first and do my best to make em work. At this point I don't exactly know what the motor is going to look like so I've got a ways to go.

Last edited by Semper Gumby; 12/05/15 2:11 pm.
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