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Hi all,

I am building a Morgo "long rod" 750. The engine is a 1970 TR6.

I have read Mr. Healy's suggestion of using the 1973 T140 rocker shafts for better oiling...
"So if you want more oil to flow through the rockers, either lengthen the oil galley on the rocker shaft or get a set of T140 rocker shafts (or cut a groove in you old shaft) and reverse the thrust washer and thackery. If you choose to use your old rocker arms you will have to grind a chamfer in the end faces of the rocker and cut a small path to direct the oil toward the valve and push rod."

I intend to use the 1969-70 large valve 650 head, and my question is this.
Can I use the entire T140 rocker box, and its components or just the shafts?

I have the head but I do not have access to either style rocker box to compare. I have to order these, and I have a good price offer for the T140 boxes complete.

Thanks in advance.

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You'll have problems if you try to use T140 rocker box castings with a '70 or earlier head.
Use the internals from the T140 (buy 2 extra 1/2" ID thrust washers), but use the early rocker box castings.

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Thank you for the help sir.
The price is good enough, and the condition looks to be very good so there is nothing lost in purchasing them for their internals, and re selling the stripped boxes.
Now to get lucky, and find a set of '70 TR6 boxes at a reasonable price, and condition.

Just for clarification, what sort of problems would there be? Sealing matters or positioning of the rockers themselves?

Curious cats are always scratching about. :-}

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I was going to use the later boxes with the earlier headbolts so i could retain the earlier head steadies on a 1970 650 going into a 1964 frame. My 1970 had the later boxes.

The later boxes have a different footprint that relies on the two-part headbolt to clamp the head down on the inner four holes. Using an earlier headbolt applies clamping force only around the periphery of the rocker box, because the late rocker boxes are relieved inside for the two-part bolt.

I got some earlier boxes on eBay, so i think i've avoided the problem.

Last edited by kevin; 06/02/15 12:00 am.

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Thanks Kevin but I am a little confused.

You have a 1970 with the 650 with the T140 style boxes?

I have a 1969 or 1970 t120 head going on a Morgo 750 big bore kit.

Honestly it does not matter which style I use (looks wise). I'm just trying to avoid buying more than I need.
Since I needed the T140 innards, and I found the entire assembly for 80 bucks, I saved there.

Your post both confirms what Pete R said, and If I read correctly you cay the 140 boxes worked.

I'm confused... Sorry sir.

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sorry worked all night

from about 1970 through 73 triumph did all sorts of stuff to the heads. spigot exhaust became pipe in head, screw in carb manifolds became two-hole bolt ons. 650 rocker boxes developed an inner relief to accommodate the new two-piece inner head bolts, which let you clamp the head down without using the rocker box as an intermediate piece. in 1970 the rocker boxes also had a side window for a feeler gauge, which went away immediately. T140s got the extra head bolt in the middle.

i have a 1972 650 (morgo 750) with the two piece bolts and the relieved rocker boxes. also two 650 motors with 1970 crankcases, one with relieved rockers and windows, one without windows.

by this time there's no telling what interchanges you'll find on old motors, because people like me-- and you-- mix and match. you just have to look and see what's there.

the late 650 standard 750 rocker boxes will work on any 650 heads, but you have to match the inner head bolts to the box. early one-piece head bolts don't clamp the head without an early rocker box, but i have never tried it out. i located early rocker boxes instead to use in my application.

i'm no good on rocker shaft changes-- still learning


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Ok, Now I understand.

I don't have any of the mounting hardware, and I was also unaware of all the different options available.

I should have my 140 boxes in a few days so I'll start looking for head bolts, and mounting hardware after I get them.

I'm sure I will have to buy several items I didn't really need thru the course of this build after all. I did consider buying a whole bike for parts but then I would have to deal w/ parting out 80-90% of it anyway.

I appreciate the detailed info. Thank goodness for you all, and the forum. I'd be up to my knees in useless parts.

Thanks!

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The OIF rocker box is cast differently to give internal clearance for the two stage head bolt system. The two short rocker box bolts screw intothe threaded part of the head bolt at 10 ft lb. They don't handle the 18 ft lb of the earlier long one piece head bolts, tending to collapse around the bolt holes. The earlier rocker boxes had cast in tunnels to give support here.

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This is also appreciated info. I'm very good at determining torque values as I have been wrenching for 43 years that I remember... I'm also trying to stay away from OIF parts. Call it ignorant prejudice but it reminds me of the AMF era Harley-s. I stayed away from them as well.

I figure IF you can make a huge mistake as in filling a steel frame w/ oil (rust issues/acids from the oil) then what else were you thinking back then.

Is there anyone reproducing top quality hardware kits for these bikes ('67-70)? Head bolts? Rod bolts? Or do I have to sort thru piles of 45 year old bits to find a few gems.?.

I've seen at least one hundred heads that are complete garbage posted for sale. I can only imagine the hardware that is floating around.

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Ah, well, Zombie, each to their own. I've owned my '76 T140V from new (39 years), and have never had any internal frame issues. I do, however, service the machine regularly and run an external ( Norton type ) oil filter.
And I personally prefer the architecture of the T140 engine. But I am interested the long rod conversion, as you are doing. MAP have a 650 lenghth ten stud barrel for T140's to enable the 6.5" conrods to be used.

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I thought about doing what you are talking about. Buying a T140 engine complete, and converting it to the long rod set up.

The ONLY thing that stopped me is my engine, and frame match. Dare I say that not one bit of my build will be OEM but i will have a matching numbers build. That's worth the extra effort to me.

The difficulty in finding both serviceable parts, and sellers that realize what they do or don't have is what almost made me buy a complete running engine. It would be easier to rebuild than to practically dig the ore, and forge new bits from the ground up.

I guess it is all in the finished product. If it makes a soul smile, it was worth the effort. I'm smiling already.

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"I'm also trying to stay away from OIF parts. Call it ignorant prejudice but it reminds me of the AMF era Harley-s. I stayed away from them as well.

I figure IF you can make a huge mistake as in filling a steel frame w/ oil (rust issues/acids from the oil) then what else were you thinking back then"

opinion from an expert who's research consists of 2 months on the inter web.

The OIF handles and stops far better than the non OIF. The 750 engine ( once derestricted from the USA regs) goes better than a 650.
creating a chopper or bobber with matching numbers is a complete waste of frame and cases. Those who want a bobber don't care, and those who want original numbs don't want it wrecked by a bodger

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Originally Posted by AngloBike
"I'm also trying to stay away from OIF parts. Call it ignorant prejudice but it reminds me of the AMF era Harley-s. I stayed away from them as well.

I figure IF you can make a huge mistake as in filling a steel frame w/ oil (rust issues/acids from the oil) then what else were you thinking back then"

opinion from an expert who's research consists of 2 months on the inter web.




This is where I take issue... You have no way of knowing what I do or or how much research I put into anything.

I myself declared my statement as "ignorant prejudice". Advice or constructive criticism is always welcome, and considered deeply by me. Snide remarks are not. Perhaps I misunderstood your statement or motive, and if I did I apologize for snapping back.


Originally Posted by AngloBike


The OIF handles and stops far better than the non OIF. The 750 engine ( once derestricted from the USA regs) goes better than a 650.
creating a chopper or bobber with matching numbers is a complete waste of frame and cases. Those who want a bobber don't care, and those who want original numbs don't want it wrecked by a bodger



My 1970 frame has been a hard tail since it rolled off the showroom floor 45 years ago. Any frame on the planet will handle, and stop better than this one ever did.
My intention is to modernize this, and create a bike that will out perform any OIF stock bike so the comparison is really a moot point. I have what I have, and it was MY choice to acquire it. Of course a 750 will outperform the 650. I happen to have a 650 that will eventually outperform the 750.

As far as a matching numbers bobber being a waste of time... Thank you for your opinion. I do not share the sentiment. I'm not a purist by any sense of the word EXCEPT when it comes to treating people with respect. If you have nothing constructive to say... say nothing.

As for "bodger??? You have some nerve passing judgement on a stranger that in most likely hood has 100 fold the skill sets you may or may not posses.

If your post was some sort of kind heart-ed way of saying something I missed the point by miles, and I again extend my apologies.
If it was meant a a string of insults to both myself, and my ideas for MY build, keep it under your hat next time or please find a less insulting method of expressing your thoughts.


Originally Posted by AngloBike
Those who want a bobber don't care,



Obviously sir, I do.

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my 1972 OIF has never had any oiling issues. at various times i've run coolers and filters on it, but right now i just change the oil and keep a magnet in the oil tank.

you can buy top-quality parts from raber's in san jose. Steadfast is also a good supplier and will have a kit available.

buy british ($$$$$) or asian ($$).


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Thank you Kevin.

Once I get to that point I will be asking about the oiling system. I do intend to use both a cooler (I have one in mind), and a remote filter kit (built into the oil tank).

I understand these engines have a rather peculiar oiling set up that has to be built just right.
It's a little intimidating seeing all the threads re: wet sump-ing, goop in the frame, check valves, T stats, dirt in pumps, 2 valve, 4 valve, rotary, OEM vent, pcv valves, reed valves, ect.

When the time comes I'll sort that.

Thanks again for the tips on hardware. I was a little scared they might not have new 'kits" available.

The $$$'s are pretty much what I expected going into this build. I can build a Harley bobber for 2 grand or less, an Asian for a grand or less but they are always worth nothing more than what you put into them. At least a Triumph has some intrinsic value just for what it is. I don't mind spending 7-8 k, and having a bike that is worth every penny invested, if not more.

I copied your suggestions into my "folder".

http://www.rabers.com/

http://stores.ebay.com/SteadfastCycles/?rmvSB=true


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Zombie, in my experience there are no real dramas in the Triumph twin oil systems.
In my '76 Bonnie I run a Lockhart oil cooler, with thermostat, and an external oil filter.The oilpump is a Morgo plunger type. Been running for a
few years now, no problems.
My special ( 1976 T 140 with Tr7 head in 1964 frame ) I built nine years ago. This runs std T140 two valve oil pump, and external filter. No problems.
The engine oil I run is Castrol Edge 25 /50.
For my T140 race project, I have a Morgo rotary pump, about which I have done a fair bit of research. Thus my decision for this choice. I have fitted this type of pump to two rebuids I have done for other people.
Compared to many people on the forum, I'm only a relative newcomer, only having been involved with British bikes since 1970 ( Matchless and a bit with BSA.........real ones, not unit twins! And Triumphs since 1976).
Anyway, back to the point, with Triumph twins oil system, straight forward. The Trident is another story though!

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Zombie Offline OP
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Appreciate the input Triless.

I read a lot on the rotary pumps, and the general opinion is they are good for race bikes but not so good for street bikes. I guess the definitions depend on how you build, and ride.

This led me to write to Morgo, and describe my proposed build, the expected HP, and rpm range for peak power.
Just to sum it up... 60-65HP @ 5-7k rpm. Highway cruise 70mph @ 4 - 4.5krpm. 5 speed, 750 kit w/ 650 head, Oil cooler, remote filter, 9.5:1 compression, medium cam profiles, and timings, 32-34mm carbs, open 37" headers. Bike lives in Fl. but will be ridden everywhere. Daily driver.

I asked Morgo what their opinion was on an oil pump. 2 valve Morgo, 4 valve OEM, rotary.

Their reply was the 2 valve is good. They do not make a 4 valve so they can not comment EXCEPT the 4 valve is simply a double duty 2 valve. Both are prone to the same benefits, and drawbacks.

Their recommendation was to run a rotary with my proposed set up.

It's hard to decide which pump based on "feelings". What gets worse is the Parrot effect on forums. One smart fella says something, and it gets repeated with no first hand experience. Therefore you see hundreds of posts slamming something based on ONE persons experience, and the tale grows bigger w/ each new post.

I'm inclined to go with either the Morgo rotary based on THEIR input or the OEM T140 4 valve.

I'm pretty mechanically inclined so it's easy to see the advantages and drawbacks of each design. I can work with either, and modify as needed to reduce the drawbacks of either. Not scared there...

I can install my oil tank low in the frame, and eliminate siphoning/dry fires, I've been advised how to properly fix the low oil issues into the rockers, and now I'm researching the crank. Cross drilling most likely will be in my cranks future.

At the risk of rambling on... There is a current thread where the OP is wet sumping constantly, and in a 2/4 valve pump I can see an issue. IF the return pump(s) gets scored or damaged but still works, I can see being fooled into believing the pump is fine. Actually it won't keep up w/ the feed rate.

I'd like to avoid issues like this... I'm leaning toward the rotary as of late. A single pressure gauge will tell all. No guessing.



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Zombie, with your experience building competition engines in other spheres, a Triumph twin will be duck soup! There is a plethora of information available, and from very clever people who post on this forum. But, there is a matter of sorting the wheat from the chaff. Soon, though, this does sort itself out.
I have a modicum of ability with a Triumph twin, but there ae four cognoscenti whose posts on this forum I devour. The tall elderly American gentleman, the no nonsense, to the point Australian from my home state of Victoria, the transplanted
Pom in Queensland with an eccentric sense of humour and deep intellect, and the down to earth, no [***], old school Amercan hotrodder from near NY.
These blokes are the real deal, I reckon.
And to those who disparage the Morgo rotary pump...... go and read Morgo's instructions, ya bloody throb merchants!
The Eaton type oil pump has done well in many forms of automotive competition for many years!
Look forward to progress posts on your Triumph project, Zombie.

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Originally Posted by Zombie
the 4 valve is simply a double duty 2 valve. Both are prone to the same benefits, and drawbacks.


Sounds like they've never seen a 4 valve pump.


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Originally Posted by Zombie


Their recommendation was to run a rotary with my proposed set up.



Quelle surprise!

What does it cost, again?


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Yes, I've seen a four valve oil pump. In a T140 E I rebuilt a couple of years back and my brother now owns!
It is interesting to note that Tiger Cubs, except the early models, had four ball valves, but in this case two were between the crankcase and pump.
I've always thought that the four valve pump in the later twins was to make up for owner ineptitude. [***] on ball valves is generally due to laxity in oil change intervals, or internal problems developing!

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Originally Posted by Triless
There is a plethora of information available, and from very clever people who post on this forum. But, there is a matter of sorting the wheat from the chaff. Soon, though, this does sort itself out.
And to those who disparage the Morgo rotary pump...... go and read Morgo's instructions, ya bloody throb merchants!

Look forward to progress posts on your Triumph project, Zombie.



Everywhere you look on the subject of vintage Triumph motorcycles, this forum is used as reference. How can anyone looking to build these machines ignore this fact?

There are lots of very kind, and helpful people here willing to share their time, and experience. You included Triless.

I do have a grasp on what I am doing but the info provided here has saved me hundreds of hours of re-inventing the wheel, and perhaps thousands of dollars in redundant or un-needed parts, and processes.

If I was going to rebuild a '48 Cadi, I'd research their site as well. How can it hurt to consult the people that have done this for decades?
I'm looking forward to beginning the build! I'm one of those fellas the do NOT hammer the jig saw puzzle together. If something does not fit the picture... find out why.


Originally Posted by triton thrasher
Originally Posted by Zombie


Their recommendation was to run a rotary with my proposed set up.



Quelle surprise!

What does it cost, again?



I look at it like this... If I wrote GM, and told them exactly what I expected in a new vehicle, and they suggested a Corvette to suit my needs above a Corsica... Why would I doubt them?

Should I buy the Corsica because tens of thousands of people say they are good enough?
In this case I have 3 people saying the 2/4 valve pumps are good enough, and the people that make a pump that have sold thousands of them saying the rotary is better for MY application.

I read several posts that claim the increased pump pressure will blow oil seals out. Not ONE of those posts said it happened to THEM. The other factor is NONE of those posts stated the installer did anything to either regulate the pressure or modify the oil flow in any manner.

From what I could find these hi performance pumps were simply bolted into low performance engines. OF COURSE there will be a problem.
Everyone that stated they use them in Race engines (aka: high performance) has stated they will use them again in similar situations.
That's good enough for me...

My build will be what I consider a "strong street" build. Some if not most would consider it a race build (aka: high performance).
For the cost??? If you have to worry about that than you shouldn't be building a performance engine.
You know the drill... Good aint cheap, and cheap aint good.
I'll probably have a grand in the clutch alone. Hydraulic kit, 350.00, alloy pressure plate, 300.00, twist grip, 50.00, hydraulic master 100.00, plate kit/springs,cables, hoses... A 400.00 performance oil pump to protect my build is a SMALL price to pay considering the investment in the build.
It's only a few dollars more than the above 4 valve that was only intended to supply for a low performance engine. The choice is obvious. (for me)

Edit: I will be running a dry belt primary so the oil pump has nothing to do w/ the clutch. I only use tthe clutch for an example. All in I expect 4-6 grand in the engine... Not counting my time which I bill at $80.00 @hr. Someone said 2 months of research... Even at 4 hours a day, I'm into this for $19,200.00, and I haven't lifted a wrench. (conservative estimate)

$400.00 for a pump??? No-brain-er! (zombie pun)

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Quote
From what I could find these hi performance pumps were simply bolted into low performance engines. OF COURSE there will be a problem.


I am sorry but I cannot connect those dots.

Quote
It's only a few dollars more than the above 4 valve that was only intended to supply for a low performance engine. The choice is obvious. (for me)


Nearly all of the Land Speed Records, the many road and dirt track races and championships with Triumphs were done with the standard 2 valve pump. So it is hardly obvious.

Quote
I read several posts that claim the increased pump pressure will blow oil seals out. Not ONE of those posts said it happened to THEM. The other factor is NONE of those posts stated the installer did anything to either regulate the pressure or modify the oil flow in any manner.


I had extensive experience with the rotary pump. I had one of the first ones and it would routinely invert the seal! It would especially invert most Taiwan after market seals (even the stock pump will invert some Taiwan copies. It was such a problem that I made up a gauge to test seals).

A Pioneer seal, with a tin support cup with a smaller i.d. would work better with the rotary pump, but even they failed. The volume was so great the porting for the pressure relief valve could handle the flow and would build excessive pressure. Plus you were dumping all of that extra oil through the pressure relief valve into the crankcase where it ended attaching to the flywheel and dragging on it. We lost HP. I finally ran a outside line from the pressure relief valve directly back to the oil pump. I still had hotter oil, but got back the HP lost to windage.

The later iterations of the rotary pump was better in this regard, pumping just a little more volume than the standard pump. Installation still required priming the oil lines and pump. A further bother with the o.i.f. models the pump would loose prime if you didn't clamp off the feed oil line from the bottom plate when cleaning the filter. IMHO the whole rotary thing was just too much bother and the 4 valve pump worked nearly as well and was self cleaning in case some swarf found its way into the sump. It was a win-win deal.

One of the things you get with the fact that a lot of oil is just churning into the pump and out the by-pass pressure relief valve is you were heating the oil that never saw the big end. The flow to the rod bearing is limited by the clearance in the bearing. The usual way of dealing with more flow is to increase the rod bearing clearance to make use of the extra flow. But nearly all Triumph rod bearings are already at .0015 to .002" (which is pretty big for such a small journal) this is not an option. Increasing the clearance more, hampers the oil from being able to form the hydrodynamic wedge essential for rod bearing life.

So you might have some insight that alluded me! It isn't so clear to me....


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In my view you cannot just look at the oil pump and engineer it several generations on from the original oil pump without considering the design of the whole engine and the whole oiling system.
Remember that these engines were designed in the mid 1930s when they were only one generation removed from total loss oiling systems.
The oil flow rate is very low by current engine design standards. Even the Trident engine had something like 8X the oil flow rate of the twins--and that is not a modern engine by any standards.
If you want a totally modern engine then buy Japanese or Hinckley Triumph.
These old Triumph engine designs were originally designed to be ride to work bikes for English guys who used them 7 days a week , kept them outside in the rain and did the maintenance in the street on a Saturday morning using by our standards very primitive tools.
And the engines and bikes did not only survive--they also set world records in all sorts of spheres--road racing, scrambles, trials, sprinting etc etc.
But don't apply what is known in English engineering circles as "Texan Engineering" to these motors (Texan Engineering says that if it is bigger it must be better). The whole concept of Brit bikes is that they are light, lithe and minimal.
Why increase the oil flow rate if all the extra oil does is to get hot and flow through the OPRV?
Keep the flow at the normal rate and then you don't need a cooler etc etc.
Frankly if Malcolm Uphill can lap the Isle of Man at over 100mph on one of these twins with a standard oil pump--that is good enough for me--- and that was in 1969 without all the improvements in tires etc that have taken place since then.
Just my 2 centsworth.

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Thank you for clarify some of these points w/ experience. I was just about to post a new thread on cross drilling the T120 cranks but some simple conversation may apply here as well due to the info on the rocker arms.


Originally Posted by John Healy
Quote
From what I could find these hi performance pumps were simply bolted into low performance engines. OF COURSE there will be a problem.


I am sorry but I cannot connect those dots.



To me it is equated to a fella that bolts a 750cfm carb on a Chevy Chevette, or a high flow/hi pressure oil pump in the same engine. Certain allowances have to be made or you get a negative net result. I see it exactly the same way in an unprepared Triumph or any MC engine. Morgo themselves list the issues you posted, and offers solutions.
"PRESSURE RELIEF VALVE
3a. Important to rider's likely to ride at high revs for long periods it is essential to
remove the crankcase pressure relief valve and ensure a minimum of 2 holes are
drilled in the body, for racing 4 holes are preferred to allow a more free flow of
excess oil back to the crankcase."

I will never debate your experience. I respect it.
I have read that Morgo did go thru "growing pains" with their initial offerings, and you were a large part in finding many of these issues.

For the old LSR's, and MANY championships won by Triumph (much of the reason I chose one as my pinnacle private build), I can't help but wonder "what if". It appears that the cranks failed MUCH more often than oil related issues. I 100% concede this as fact.
It still begs the question, why would Morgo suggest the rotary over the valve pump in my application? They manufacture both types. the profit margin has to be so close as to negate "greed" as the answer... (head you off at the pass Triton Thrasher):-}
Another question that needs addressing is how long were these championship bikes run on the same pump or how long between total rebuilds of the pumps?

I currently build endurance race scooters, and 24 hours kills everything. Off shore, drag, moto-x, street drag... Not one piece in these engines is left as is or left until failure.
I'm not attempting to be argumentative, just looking for complete clarification on the concept of running a rotary.

Since I will be running a dry primary, I need to install a drive side seal. I will of course find a method to install the best seal available. Most likely I will end up installing two seals (if I can find/make the room). This applies to both sides of the crank. In a perfect world "E" clips will also be used to retain the seals.
I'm not using an OEM stator so I can weld/machine the drive side but I have not laid eyes on the timing side to know what I will do there yet.

Now lets assume the seals are no longer part of the problem. You mentioned heating the oil... That effect will be so similar in both I can't see it being a major hurdle. Heat sink oil lines, and external coolers, and remote filter should negate this as a real issue. In running marine oil coolers I found wrapping copper tubing around the stainless oil lines helped.
Same with running Lenco automatic transmissions, and remote coolers on street machines. It's amazing how much heat a properly applied heat sink can pull. I have also seen lots of posts recommending a "T" stat if a cooler is used. This slight increase in pressure related heat could be a benefit, no? I have never liked the idea of a "T" stat in an oil system. How many thousands of failed thermostats I have replaced I can not begin to recall. A shotgun to the temple could not make me install one in an oil line.
I know the effects, and signs of condensation in an engine. Marine mechanic by trade...

Your thoughts on this are greatly appreciated.

[Linked Image]


Combining all of this with an innovative set up... Heat sink-ed oil feed/return system, cross drilling the crank mains, chamfering all the oil outlets, adjusting the PRV, and return restriction, using the improved rocker feed system, I believe the oil system can be re designed to flow better, and handle the slightly increased heat, and pressure.

I know you know your stuff. I'm just looking for input on my ideas for improving the 45yo design, and adapting it to modern tolerances, and technologies.

Keeping in mind this is a strong street bike that I don't mind working on, and tweaking. That's what I do anyway. I just don't want to deal w/ scored or spooky fitting parts, loose tolerances are not in my book.
Tight tolerances require high pressure to feed, and maintain shear strength in the oil, and I do use the best oils I can find.

Spectro oil is in the game plan. It has never failed me in 30 plus years. An oil pressure gauge goes a long way as well...

I ramble a bit, and daydream a bit more. It's how my mind works... Keep trying different approaches to an issue until it is no longer an issue.


Originally Posted by John Healy
Installation still required priming the oil lines and pump. A further bother with the o.i.f. models the pump would loose prime if you didn't clamp off the feed oil line from the bottom plate when cleaning the filter. IMHO the whole rotary thing was just too much bother and the 4 valve pump worked nearly as well and was self cleaning in case some swarf found its way into the sump. It was a win-win deal.






This is an aspect that I was involved on a thread about.

The OIF bike is not an issue for me. The priming of the pump is. In every 4t engine this is standard practice. I'm not concerned about that BUT the pump loosing prime or flowing thru to a wet sump is.

As I see it the only way to prevent the wet sump or siphon thru is a check valve or a manual shut off valve.
I still enjoy a cocktail or three at home but I never ride when I'v had even one so forgetting a shut off is not a concern. I actually prefer the idea over a check valve that you can not put eyes on to verify it works.
Plus IF a bike is stolen, I'd rather rebuild an engine than not see it again.

If you know of these rotary pumps failing in action more often than pump types that alone may change my mind in this whole topic. IF they are reliable in action...

I appreciate your thoughts on my concepts here.



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