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#583007 01/28/15 2:21 am
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Ger B Offline OP
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I've got an electric diagram of the A65T OIF in my Haynes book, Page 80, fig-6.3.
Is fig 6.2, energy transfer system an enlarged part of that system?

confused

Last edited by Ger B; 01/28/15 2:22 am.

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Hi Ger,

Did OIF BSA's have ET? shocked Triumph abandoned the system in the 1960's.

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Quote
Did OIF BSA's have ET?

You repeat my question, Stuart.
The two diagrams on one page in the handbook confuse me...
Do I have that or do I not have that system (fig 6.2 as a part of fig 6.3)?


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Haynes Christian Andersen

It took a moment but the nickle dropped... laughing

Thank you Nick.

Now all I need to do is rewire the key switch and hope the engine stops when I turn it off.

It's embarrassing when you need to pull the HT wires from the plugs. blush


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From the 71 Manual

[Linked Image]

Note the power to the ignition system goes up to a handlebar switch then returns as a white and yellow core from the kill switch, sounds like some one has by passed this on your bike.

HTH

Last edited by gavin eisler; 01/28/15 10:03 am.

71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
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Ger B Offline OP
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Thanks for the reminder, Gavin.

To be honest... I never stopped the engine with the kill switch.
I only turned the key... But certainly something to check.
A PO did remove the points ignition and installed a Boyer so who knows.

Something else:

I've seen some damage reports during my career but...
Looking at your diagram; did you write... mouse damage? confused


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Hi Ger,

Originally Posted by Ger B
Quote
Did OIF BSA's have ET?

You repeat my question,

Sorry, blush didn't understand ...

From the later posts, thinking about it, OIF can't have had ET; ET kill switches are completely different from 'normal' kill switches, OIF kill switches are incorporated in a handlebar cluster and Lucas never made a '71-on switch cluster with an ET kill switch?

Hth.

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Originally Posted by Ger B
Now all I need to do is rewire the key switch and hope the engine stops when I turn it off.
Originally Posted by Ger B
To be honest... I never stopped the engine with the kill switch.
I only turned the key... But certainly something to check.
A PO did remove the points ignition and installed a Boyer so who knows.

So this is a newer problem then? Had you done any work to the wiring yourself before the problem showed up?

The kill switch is the bottom button on the right handlebar switch gear, let us know if it works, that will really help to narrow things down.

Your key switch itself may be the problem, the connections to it shouldn't be though as they were correct in the past (assuming you hadn't made any changes there before the problem showed up).







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No ET system in my factory Manual. There is a separate diagram for the optional capacitor.
I've never had one, but I've read here that the multi-position ignitions switches can be problematic.


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The diagram I posted is correct for the OIF , its from the 71 Manual,yup thats mouse damage.
There is no ET system as far as I know for this model.

I am on my 2nd ignition switch , the replacement has only on or off, no lights position as shown on the diagram.
Drill out the rivets to access the switches guts. A quick test with an ohmeter before stripping will show how bad it is.


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Ger, look for a path from rectifier (or power box) negative to the Boyer box, NOT via the keyswitch; this could be your problem. This problem has no other noticeable symptoms; that is, as long as battery power is interrupted by the keyswitch, your battery will not run down when the engine is not running, it will charge when the engine IS running, and the engine will not start with the keyswitch OFF.

This can happen if the rectifier negative is connected to the load side of the ignition switch, along with the ignition wire, rather than the feed side (i.e., from the battery).



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Originally Posted by Mark Z
This can happen if the rectifier negative is connected to the load side of the ignition switch, along with the ignition wire, rather than the feed side (i.e., from the battery).



Hmm, forgot about the kill switch. In the above scenario, the kill switch should still kill the engine, unless the kill switch has been bypassed, sometimes done when a Boyer is installed, so there's no chance of the kill switch offering resistance in the ignition circuit.




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Ger B Offline OP
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Sorry,didn't understand
No worries, Stuart smile

Quote
So this is a newer problem then? Had you done any work to the wiring yourself before the problem showed up?

Correct.
The engine has been out and reinstalled. But even before that, during the nine years I have this bike I never used the kill button, only the key.
Why? Don't bother asking... I don't know why...

I marked wires on disassembly but probably not correct or not efficient enough. Between dissasembly and building back together,
the bike and boxes with parts moved from a shed to a garage I bought; I assembled in a hurry... So this may be what happened.
Quote
connected to the load side of the ignition switch, along with the ignition wire

Or the insides of the key switch are no good.

But bottom line is: last night I decided I will remove a birds nest from the headlamp, and a second birds nest from below the seat.
The local brit bike parts supplier has the front and aft wiring loom in house so I'll redo the complete wiring.
Plenty of tips in the posts above.

Thank you all, chaps.

Last edited by Ger B; 01/29/15 2:42 am.

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My understanding of the ET ignition system is this. It was initially introduced as a battery less ignition system for certaincompetition models of Triumph / BSA. As it wasn't fully understood by the average owner,due to development, the more user friendly capaciter ignition was introduced in the late sixties. So, therefore, definitely no ET for OIF models.

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The B50MX retained ET ignition, it had a 2 coil alternator with the other 4 coils just being an empty space.

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Hi Ger,

Originally Posted by Ger B
will remove a birds nest from the headlamp, and a second birds nest from below the seat.
The local brit bike parts supplier has the front and aft wiring loom in house so I'll redo the complete wiring.

Few other things you might want to consider:-

. Afaik, the key switch shown with three terminals in the oif wiring diagrams is the same as the 4-terminal one used in the T160, electric-start Commando and '79-on Triumph twins; certainly the 4-terminal will fit.

. You can then run a (Blue?) wire from terminal 4 on the ignition switch to feed the headlamp on/off switch, instead of taking the headlamp switch feed from the Brown/Green. If you use the 'parking lights' position on the key switch, then no chance of some naughty person turning on the headlamp and flattening the battery for you.

. The aforementioned models used a differently-shaped threaded ring to secure the key switch, which takes different seals and covers to keep water out of the switch. :bigt You can also get a seal for the terminals end of the switch, as used on the Commando.

Hth.

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Yes. Nickl is on the money. The bean counters held sway! Part of the story of the Brit motorcycle industry.

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But, havingsaid that, the capacitor system was more user friendly. Look, I'll tell you buggers this, if something is created to be idiot proof, the reality is that it only creates a new type of idiot!

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Ger B Offline OP
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I made a print of your diagram, Nickl, to check the differences between yours and the original.
I wonder what the use is of a parking light.
I don't know anyone who uses that.
Mandatory for type approval?
Thanks.


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Hi Ger,

Originally Posted by Ger B
I wonder what the use is of a parking light.

Certainly in GB, it is (or was) illegal to leave an unlit vehicle parked on an unlit (i.e. no street lamps) road during the hours of darkness. So the 'park' position on the ignition switch allowed the pilot lamp and tail lamp to be left on but the key could be removed (not possible - at least in theory wink - when the key was in one of the other 'on' positions (one and two clicks clockwise from 'off')).

Hth.

Regards,

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Ger B Offline OP
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Thanks Stuart. I think I can live without it.


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Originally Posted by Ger B


It's embarrassing when you need to pull the HT wires from the plugs. blush

but it warms you up when your gloves are wet
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it warms you up when your gloves are wet

laughing

May I ask how you found out? laughing


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Originally Posted by Ger B
[quote]


May I ask how you found out? laughing

perhaps this will come as no shock (actually it was to me) but
experience, bitter experience The occasion was a trip home from uni on a Norton jubilee in icy sleet so bad it froze the switches and I couldn't turn it off, still it was the second time that day It shocked me, the first was much worse, riding along a dual carriageway the bike cut onto one cylinder,I looked down to see a ball of ice had built up around the left plug lead which stuck out from the side of the cylinder, so without thinking I simply reached down and pulled the ice off.........a big mistake, the plug cap came with it and I became a conductor for 20,000 volts, resulting in every muscle in my body violently contracting and relaxing at engine speed, I couldn't let go and one of those muscles which was contracting controlled the throttle, fortunately after what felt like eternity but was probably only seconds or less, my out of control left arm contracted enough to pull the ht lead from the coil.
After stopping the bike I had to walk back up the road to find the ht lead/plug cap which I dropped for some reason,took about a half hour to find, don't know how I found it,but the light was gone by the time I got the bike running and the temperature had dropped
after another thirty minutes of slow careful riding Igot back hometo find all switches were frozen, and the ice in the back yard was so bad I couldnt stall it, it sat there with its back wheel spinning when I dumped the clutch,so...being very cold and wet and tired I decided to flip the ht leadss of with a screwdriver and that my friend is how I know
well you did ask
yosemite
sitting watching the coal fire, and the snow gently falling outside and contemplating a 25 mile ride to work tomorrow
still at least my waterproofs these days are less like a sponge


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not only is it cold, but it makes getting around impossible in some places.

here i am with about 80,000 pounds stuck crossways in the road the other day.

[Linked Image]



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