Britbike forum Forums British Motorcycle specific Brands Bsa bulletin board First BSA, 1972 A65L, Engine troubles

Hi, my name is zoltan and I just picked up my first BSA, british bikes were what got me into motorcycles but could never afford anything but a japanese bike until recently. I have been working on japanese bikes for a while now, but this is my first british bike. I acquired this bike in Connecticut from a big british bike fan who told me the bike runs and rides but theres a clanking noise inside the engine and hasn't dealt with it or care too. I got the bike started, however its not idling, though I have yet to clean the carbs and do some basic maintenance on it. What is more concerning to me is the engine clanking, which increases with revving. I am not against pulling and opening the engine. This is going to be a fun winter project for me. The sound, sounds like it is on the top but maybe you guys can give me some further insight from the video below.

Any general tips regarding british bikes or common issues with this model would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

Could be something simple, check the valve clearances, taking the valve cover off and looking for something loose is also quick and easy. On the idle get hold of a #78 drill, mount it in a wd40 plastic tube using glue, remove the pilot mixture screw and then finger twist the drill through the pilot jet to remove the crud.

Does sound top endy.

Welcome, Zoltan, and congratulations, the bike looks very nice. I bought my first BSA, a 1971 A65L, three years ago, and this forum has been a great help. The sounds coming out of my BSA are different than the sounds that come out of my Triumphs, I am still getting used to that.

First thing I did after getting the BSA was to buy a FACTORY shop manual, a genuine parts book, and an original owners handbook. You should be able to get them from some of the forum sponsors, or resort to eBay (I confess!).

Thanks for posting the pic and the vid, it really helps. Please post lots more pics, or link to an album, I for one will be glad to look them over. If I lived closer, I'd offer to have a look in person.

It sounds like it is running on one cylinder -- are both head pipes getting hot? If it is running on only one, the clank could be the sound of the piston in the dead cylinder slapping around. Since you have worked on other bikes I'm assuming that you know how to check for spark and check compression.

Before starting my bike the first time, I pulled the carbs off and apart for cleaning and to check all the components. Lots of help on this forum on what to look for if you do.

But "clanking" may be cause for alarm. Might just be time for that winter project you mentioned.

Please tell us what are the two letters after "A65L" in your frame and engine numbers. That way we can tell you if it is a '71 or a '72. A few things on it look like '71 at first glance.

In your clip, one thing I hear is intake noise. Your air cleaner covers are swapped right-for-left so that the rubber hoses are not connected between the air boxes and the carbs. Here's mine:


Hope that helps, others may comment with different views, I expect,

Kurt

PS -- My bike was a total rat when I got it, then after cleaning it up, fixing it up, and getting it running, I rode it 20 miles, then decided to tear down the motor, and it is in pieces now, my winter project. In retrospect, I think it would have been better if I had taken it apart before riding it. I found broken valves springs, and the exhaust valves are very loose in their guides.

Sounds like valve clipping the piston crown to me

Sounds similar to mine which was that very problem.

Zoltan, it sounds like you are saying that the seller told you about the noise? I recall a BSA for sale recently on Craigs List in East Hartford I think it was, seller said that the motor had issues. Looking more and more like winter project time. More running just might cause more damage. I'm lucky that I didn't destroy mine in those first 20 miles.

-----i would definetly say --"excessive valve clearance"---take off the valve cover and adjust the valve lash----easy fix----dont get excited

It's only running on one cylinder, sounds like. All kinds of weird sounds can come out when that happens.

After running it a few seconds like that, one header pipe will be so hot you can't keep your hand on it, and the other will be stone cold.

Is that what's happening?

Lannis

Like others have said, start with the valve clearance and getting both cylinders running somewhat even. While the rocker cover is off, make sure the pushrods and rocker arms are properly seated. Also make sure the washers and springs for the rocker arms are installed correctly. Here is where you need a manual.

Good luck

Welcome to the forum! BSA's are the way to go! Looks like a 1971 model, could be wrong

And while you can run the bike without the rocker cover off it will be very messy.

Remove the rocker cover the primary cover and the spark plugs.
Put a socket on the big nut on the end of the alternator rotor and turn the motor over. Just sit , look & listen.
Every thing should go up & down in a nice uniform motion and be the same left & right.
Then close your eyes and feel with one hand on the head, left side then right side.
Every thing should be happening smoothly if you feel a click then you have found the problem

Don't be in too much of a hurry to pull the engine apart. Rebuilding a BSA is a major project compared to a Japanese bike. Check all the stuff listed above first. You may be able to fix it without splitting the cases.

Mine was making an awful clanking noise when I got it. Turned out it was a worn primary sprocket (the splines on the sprocket mounted on the crankshaft, on the left side.) If you put the bike in gear with the engine off and rock the bike back and forth and it goes 'clank,' 'clank', it may be a worn sprocket.

Wow, thanks for all the replies and suggestions everyone. Looking to get some work done on it this weekend and will then give an update.



This sounds just like it actually.

Yep I picked it up from east hartford at a flea market

Glad it showed up, when I pressed submit post on the iPhone all it gives me is a blank area.

Take the plugs out and turn the motor over slowly ( by the kicker is fine) mine made a ping when the valve touched the piston. I have a video of that somewhere.

See if this works.

Allan, its showing as a private video on my screen.

If it's not excessive valve noise I'd be looking at the pinion marks. These dashes, and one (crank pinion) dot must line up for correct valve timing. If they don't... it's trouble. Your inner timing cover needs to come off to access these.

Thanks Kommando, it should be visible now. Unfortunately I can't see them on any I device.



I disagree with the comment, with standard valves, cam and correctly recessed valve cut aways you can actually time the cam 1 tooth either way and it will not connect valve to piston, the problem I had was because I was using over sized valves with a cam which had a very wide lobe separation.

The cam being too far advanced by one tooth would give a lot of low down power
The cam being too far retarded would make the bike slow to get going and run better at higher revs.

Never assume anything is as it should be though. (Meaning bola could still be right)

So, since I've been on break I have gotten some time too work on the BSA. I plan on making this bike into a flat tracker with modifications done that can always be reverted back to the stock bike.

The image attached is a little old but I cleaned the carbs and put them on and the bike is idling well. The left spark plug was fouled and I think that was the cause for it not idling along with messing with the jets. The carbs probably didn't need a cleaning, good to do anyways however.

So I got under the cover and I found a free large washer I looked hard but it really didn't see a free nut or something of that nature or anything missing something like that. Not sure if the past owner just accidentally left it in there or what, but it is a little concerning. The valve clearances all checked out to spec but I redid all of them anyways and the knocking noise does seem less prominent but I feel like its still there and or now that both cylinders are running they're maybe muffling the sound a bit making the sound less prominent. No metal flakes anywhere or anything loose though. Now that the bike is idling, even with the engine issue its may be hard to resist to take the bike up and down the road since its going to be 50 degrees on christmas tomorrow here in NYC . Though, I may wait to not cause further damages and problems down the road, I will post a video of the current engine sounds and I have my fingers crossed its just normal bsa valve noises.



left side:

right side:



Also need a new gasket

You don't need to open the timing case to check valve timing. You can check it if you remove the rocker cover.
Bring the engine to TDC. On one cylinder, both valves will be open a little over 1/8". The intake valve should be open slightly more than the exhaust (maybe 0.040" more), but they will be close to the same lift. If you're out by one tooth, the difference in valve lift at TDC will be huge, more like 1/8".

"I plan on making this bike into a flat tracker with modifications done that can always be reverted back to the stock bike."

Zoltan, this is a whole nuther ball of wax, unless perhaps you meant "street tracker". If you really meant flattracker, and you want to be competitive, even in vintage racing, you might as well tear it down to nuts and bolts right now, and you'll undoubtedly have to make internal engine modifications that will be more or less irreversible.

Haha, yes I meant aesthetically, I'm in no shape to make or even know to make race modifications for this bike, maybe eventually though

Though, after I fix the engine clammoring, I do plan on tearing the bike down and doing a frame up rebuild painting and re-nickeling things, as well as removing excess weight.

Allan, how did you go about fixing this? Was it caused from excessive valve clearance?
I've gone through my clearances twice as per the manual directions, my clearances are good. However it really sounds top endy, I'm hoping it isn't piston slap.
I probably really shouldn't even be running the engine but some things I've came across from messing with the bike:
(bike is very lean running)
-small white smoke coming out of right carb (idk if this has anything to do with it not running for many years)
-major kick back from the kick pedal when try to start it sometimes, could be the timing is off?

The noise I had was the over sized valve clipping the piston, the wide lobe wide seperation high lift cam combination was the cause, a change to standard valves worked better with the cam I had fitted.


Any spitting back through the carb is a lean mixture as you have surmised. I run with 010" inlet and exhaust for valve clearances ( years ago in one of the classic mechanics mags there was an article covering the spitfire cam stating to run .002" bigger clearence for improved performance, and the book settings for a reduction in valve noise) the settings I run work the best out of what I have tried ( and I have tried a lot of different settings) I also don't find any increase in valve clatter. This being the case I don't see valve clatter being your problem but I wouldn't rule it out until you have checked these settings but .002" either way won't make a difference, a heavily worn valve train ( everything from cam pinions to cam lobes and cam followers) will show more clatter than a slight gap increase.

I'd start at the top, checking everything is within spec, removing rocker cover and working down till the head is off.

Serious pinking being from lean mixture might be the noise your getting, is the noise worse under load?
Lean mixture could simply be from an air leak around the carb mounting, spraying some wd40 or some "easy start" will show this up as it will effect the idle speed.

Incorrectly set pilot mixture could also be your cause of lean mixture conditions.

Hi Zoltan,

Welcome.

There are large flat washers in the valve running gear. They are next to the spring that holds pressure on the valve rocker on the rocker shafts. It's easy when re-assembling the valve gear to lose the flat washer. Get a parts manual as well as the shop manual so you can see how things go together.

Also there is a slim chance that one of the lifter retaining circlips could have come off the lifter (there are four of these in new motors) and is bouncing around down at the bottom of the pushrod tunnel. Most people put the lifters back in the bike without the circlips. Fish around with a long magnet to see if there is anything down in the bottom of the pushrod tunnel.

BTW - When setting the valve clearance on the BSA, for setting the LH exhaust valve, rotate the motor untill the RH exhaust valve is fully down (open) and stopped and then set the LH valve clearence. Same for the intake valve. I'm using .010" for the exhaust and .008" for the intake.

There is one other possibility on that valve noise: no oil to the head. On the back of the head there is a thin oil line. Remove it at the head and crank the motor. Oil should start dribbling out in a couple of seconds. If nothing comes out then there is your problem. No oil to the head would make that noise I heard on the video.

How many miles do you think are on this motor?


Regards,

PS - the OIF BSA is the Best handling BSA out there. Was this the bike that was on Craigslist the last year up in Connecticut?

A lot of good ideas in this thread, one other possibility for the noise is a bent valve stem , this would cause lazy closing and a bit of clatter, a compression test with a gauge will show any big differences up. or possibly a broken spring.

I think , after a compression check a top end strip may be a good idea.

The occasional kickback may be a sticky advance /retard mechanism if it is still fitted with points.

I agree. While you can make styling changes which are easy enough to reverse, making a competitive racing bike is an all-or-nothing effort.


Not even the stock frame, a Trackmaster. I've never seen an OIF used for this purpose.

I was tempted..

Good luck. I put 8500 miles on my OIF this last year riding all over the country.

There were a lot of smiles in all those miles. :bigt

I helped build several Triumph based OIF flat track bikes in the 70's/early 80's. No one wanted them, we didn't have the money for an XR750. For a junior class bike, a Triumph in a stock frame would get the job done. Longer Shocks, Betor front end, glass seat/tank, and remove every unnecessary bit. We also played around with Trackmaster, Astro, and Redline swing arms to improve the handling.

I also had my own Trackmaster Triumph. What a sweet handling bike. Very predictable, very stable, and awesome hole shot frame......never rode anything that would start better. I still liked the Astro better for pure handling. Never rode anything on dirt track that would set up like an Astro in the corner. And was more forgiving. But the Trackmaster was pretty close.

And the OIF bikes......not bad, maybe a touch slow steering, but not bad. I know where 2 of the bikes I helped build are still sitting....too bad really, they did work surprisingly well

Tracker aesthetically, without any irreversible changes, no I don't plan on racing it, for those who keep bringing up the tracker thing up.. didn't mean to step on any toes haha.

Anyways, some more info on the bike: title says its a 1972 lightning, and the engine has a little over 2000 miles on it.

Engine knock is still there! Rockers and everything appear to be assembled correctly, and valve clearances are correct as per the manual.

Oil is getting to the top end, I know this because I ran it without the rocker cover on :p. Nothing dangling around in the tunnel. Everthing simple seems to be out of the question, however I haven't checked for the loose rotor, though it just seems to top - endy to be that, but may be worth a check anyways..



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFYl1_bhl-8&feature=em-upload_owner


any other ideas before I have to really dig into this engine and remove the head! thanks in advance!

it still sounds like a single in the video.

The rotor nut is worth a check before you open up the top end.

Which cylinder is missing?

Zoltan, good buddy, getting back to what I said about the air boxes being upside-down in your first pic, I am really dubious of the abilities of the previous owner(s), so I wouldn't be surprised if there are many "surprises" awaiting you as you dig further into it. If it wuz me, I'd have the primary cover off and both right-hand covers as well, for starters. You can only tell so much without opening it up. Further running might could cause damage. Just my opinion based on my recent A65L experience.

So, some bad news! I called a british bike shop in Connecticut (maciag) and they have the bike on file and it had piston slap. Called a couple places and a full engine rebuild is really out of my budget. One place said that the piston slap is probably from something about starvation of oil and the crank, a 3-4 thousand dollar job. Now I could tear the engine down, maybe get the cylinders honed / bored with new pistons, but it seemed that the crank issue is what most likely caused the piston slap in the first place, so I don't wanna put a bunch of money into the top end and have the same issue not too far down the road. Do you guys think it'd be worth it too tear it down anyways?

Are all A65 engines interchangeable from various years? Was thinking it might be worth just finding a new engine entirely as a full rebuild would be far more expensive... than even an entire new bike really. Let me know what you guys think.

The new engine would need a rebuild.

This engine runs on one cylinder only making this racket.
It could be clogged pilot jet in one of your carbs or lack of compression in the cylinder, you can start with finding which cylinder doesn't work.
You can do it by touching lightly exhaust pipes after you start a cold engine. Only a few minutes id necessary to find out which exhaust pipe is getting hotter.
If you do not have a pressure tester you could just take spark plugs out and by covering their holes with a thumb during a few kicks determine if you feel any difference in pressure between cylinders, if you get any gas or oil on your thumbs from working and not working cylinder.

It's quite obvious this engine needs a rebuild, and you can make this cheaper for you doing all the dismantling and cleaning work and using machine shop for measuring and machining.
After machining work is done you can build the engine yourself with a help of this forum.
These are easy engines to build if you have a proper information.

I paid $1100 for my 1971 A65L, then spent at least $1500 to get it roadworthy. And now the motor is apart, another $2K? "In for a dime, in for a dollar," as we say hereabouts.

Piston slap is not typically caused by lower end problems; it's typically caused by excessive clearance between the piston and cylinder wall.

That's not to say you DON'T have lower end problems.

Yes, if you call a shop and say, I want a total engine rebuild, the price tag is going to be staggering. If, however, you do all of the disassembly and assembly yourself, and only farm out the things you can't do, you might get away with in the vicinity of $1K. And, if you take your time, you can dole out the money in smaller doses, which may be less painful.

Here are the things you'll probably need to contract out: 1. Cylinder head refurbishing. 2. Replacing/fitting the timing side main bush if it needs it. 3. Crank journal grinding if it needs it (let's hope not). 4. Cylinder boring/honing/fitting pistons.

On my last couple of rebuilds, I had the rebuilder assemble the crankcase - not the timing gears, oil pump, gearbox, primary drive, clutch, etc., just the crankcase with crank and camshaft. This is a quick operation and doesn't add much to the bill.

But be prepared to become a motorcycle mechanic, to acquire tools and materials as needed, and to devote a few hundred hours on this project.

thanks for the input everyone

Yes I know it is still firing on only one cylinder, the left ones not firing... didn't think it had anything to do with the noise, and its hard for me too notice the difference I'm not use to bsa's idle - along with this engine clammer..

I just ordered some 2 dvd course off eBay on a65 engine rebuilding haha... manual finally came in the other day as well..

looks like I got myself a project ahead of me... I'll be posting lots of pictures in hope for suggestions.

pulling the engine tomorrow

right, i was just quoting what this shop in nyc was trying to say to me I'm not exactly sure what they were talking about but works engineering in brooklyn was saying something about a crank issue causing oil starvation and ultimately piston slap... he was talking about 3-4 grand for a complete engine rebuild... forr 'worst case scenario' it climbed to 8-$10,000 .... lol wtf... i really don't know if he was feeding me some bs or what

Yes, he was feeding you bs .

Good plan. I hope that's the genuine FACTORY service manual you are getting. A parts book is a good item, too, I find it essential. I, too, bought the DVD before tearing my A65 down. It is helpful, my words of caution have to do with the ease with which he swings a hammer -- maybe OK if you've done it before. Also, I felt queasy as the motor rolled around on the workbench while he went at it -- you can build a simple box of short 2x4 lengths for the lower end to sit in (I think it is mentioned in the factory service manual.). (I also cringed at the shots showing the open electrical box above his workbench, but my shop is no showplace, either haha).

One thing I did to make the heavy lifting a little lighter was to strip the motor in the frame before unbolting the lower end, like this:



But you can pull it out in one piece, too, someone to help lift it out is a good idea, frame clearance is tight.

that does sound bad, first i would do a compression test on both cylinders to see haw they compare,left side might be well down stopping it running on that side,if comp is good on both check carbs and electrics if poor you need to pull the top end off check the head and bore sizes but to me that does not sound like piston slap.

how did you do that? weren't the seats cut oversize to fit the oversize valves?

Cool i'm glad it was useful either way haha.

WOW, thought that taking the engine of the frame would be the easy part.. those bolts near the center back bone are impossible to reach and loosen.. especially when you are alone.

Engine is off the bike and I let the frame and engine drain oil over night, going to bring it in the house tonight and hopefully get a little start.

found a random free washer in the valves.. someone threw this thing together

pistons look good no hot spots, also no cracks in valves.. the most "burnt" looking one is individually picture below.

still need to check spring sizes and bore size















Sort of disappointed by the DVD as one of its slogans was you just need basic tools...yet theres about 5-6 tools he made himself / bought.

Also I don't feel any play on the rods so fingers crossed i don't have to split the cases...

having trouble getting the pistons of the rods

however I believe the pistons look a bit scored? However it feels smooth theres not pitted scoring

not pitted scoring on the cylinders either..



cylinders:
























Some advice I got about the noise and rebuild:

Zoltan,
If you're going to pull the head off, I should tell you this: If the engine did not suffer oil starvation, and simply ran enough miles to wear the cylinders past normal wear limits, then with just the head off you'll see cylinders that look reasonably smooth. They would be actually worn oval, but you'd probably need to measure them to tell they were worn oval shaped.
If, as you were told, the problem was oil starvation, then you will no doubt find severe scoring and grooves worn into the cylinder wall. If you do see such scoring, then you may well need more than a top end rebuild.


Zoltan,

Without having the engine here to look at, this is all guesswork, but, I can tell you that I've seen very few A65 engines suffer from oil starvation. Also, I haven't run into a lot of those engines that have cylinders worn so far that you hear the piston slap about in the cylinder. It is much more common to have loose gudgeon pins, AKA wrist pins. It isn't actually the pins, but the small end bushing or the hole in the piston itself that gets worn and the noise is referred to as 'loose wrist pin'.

There is a way to get a good indication of whether or not you need a total rebuild versus just a top end rebuild and it's not very hard to do.

Do this: Remove the round cover located in the primary case over the alternator rotor. It's just forward of the brake pedal and has the BSA logo cast in it. (Of course, this assumes that no one has put a different year cover on your engine.) With the cover off, you be looking a the end of the crankshaft and a large nut holding the alternator rotor in place. Now, get a large pair of vise grips and lock them onto that nut. Once you've got a firm hold on that nut, push and pull it back and forth to see how far the crankshaft will slide, in and out. You should find almost no movement as the proper end float should only be 0.001 to 0.003 of an inch. If you find the crank moves only this small amount, then the crankshaft assembly is probably ok. Putting an oil pressure gauge on it to test the running pressure would be the next procedure, but that would be more involved.
If the crank moves in and out much more, like 0.050 inch or more, then you may need a complete rebuild. I say 'may need' because I have seen engines with way too much end float on the crankshaft, but the top ends were just fine.

bottom of followers


no wear on the cam though

from what I've been reading I am starting to think its small end bush wear but the manual is pretty vague about how to determine if wear is there or not, any help would be appreciated.

It also states that small end bush wear can cause high pitched tapping sounds. hm

You need lifters and a cam.....holy crap that is ugly

care to elaborate? thanks in advance

The cam would need to be replaced as well?

Unless you split the cases and clean the sludge trap, any money you spend now will have to be spent again on a full rebuild very soon. A while back I bought a "fully rebuilt, zero mile" engine, which had obviously been worked on - very clean, new bolts, new gaskets, obviously new valve caps and springs etc. I won't go into the horror details, but within a few weeks of fitting the engine (with an oil filter and good oil) it was totalled. All the bearings were shot, the crank oil feed had blocked and the heat popped the left hand gudgeon circlip and destroyed the barrel. Looking at the remains, the big end bearings had been replaced (along with valves and so on) but the sludge trap had never been removed in the life of the engine. End result was around $4000 in repairs. It doesn't take much to split the cases once the engine is out of the frame and the extra couple of hours is time well spent. With the damage to that tappet I'd be very wary of spending anything without a full pulldown.

thanks for the reply.. I was hoping not to split the cases but its probably the right thing to do and that chip is probably somewhere down there as well.

I guess now I need the special tools to split the cases.

If you have a local BSA guy, take the inner timing case off along with the oil pump and so on, remove the primary case cover and take the plates out of the clutch then take the remaining lump over and let him split it. It really only takes about 20 minutes for an experienced BSA mech to dismantle one, so it shouldn't cost much. You'll need someone used to the engines to set the crank end float etc during reassembly.

If you're going to do all that, it isn't much more involved to split the cases.
Just take your time and pay attention to what goes where, maybe take pictures as you go. While you might get away with new cam followers, the cam is probably damaged looking at the cam followers I'd say the PO was a POS when it comes to maintenance. As others have said here take the time now to do the whole job and you'll thank yourself later.
FWIW the sludge trap in the basket case I'm working on now was clogged and it took out the left side rod journal, rod, piston, and put a hole in the left side case. There are videos online of sludge trap cleaning, check those out.

Have fun

When I split my A65 cases in December, I did need a clutch hub puller (very commonly available, I used the one I had for my Triumphs) and garden-variety gear pullers that you can get from Sears or HF. And heat. And that forked tool ("pickle fork" I think it was) for the crank pinion helped, per the DVD (Harbor Freight has it). Good to have gear pullers anyway, and you will want the clutch hub puller for your tool chest. (An impact wrench isn't necessary but helps in some cases, I have air, and the electrics are good.)

If you do it yourself, take your time, and be judicious before you apply heat, hammer, and impact.

Oh, yeah, be sure that you have removed ALL the Fasteners before you start hammering the cases apart. Check again and again and ... .

BTW, that one cam follower especially is especially hideous, worst I've seen in the past 52 years. How about a pic of the cam?

I'll be purchasing the pickle fork at HF they have it there cheapest for $10.

How does the rest of this cart look, anything else I could need you can think of?






Here are some pics of the cam: there doesn't appear to be any chipping or visual damage however I don't know what cam wear looks like anyways
hoping not a lot of things need replacing only 2000 miles on the engine but it appears it was abused.












they're smooth to the touch

would me not being able to take out the grudeon pins from the small end bushings mean that they're good since they probably need to be pressed out.. meaning theres no play / wear ?

Because I feel like I still ned to identify the problem for making the noise

The pins should be a sliding fit in the bushes, not stiff. They are sometimes tight in a cold piston, but can be pushed out when you warm the piston. That's normal.

Zoltan,
As much scoring as I see on the cam lobes, that was a dirty engine, rarely getting the oil changed often enough.
The pistons and cylinder exhibit this as well.

I too, recommend that you get the sludge trap cleaned out; I once had three A65 cranks in a row that were nearly clogged shut.

Any more, if I don't know the engines' history, they get split and the trap cleaned out.
Everything gets inspected this way, and you are assured of the engine's integrity.

If you happen to have the oil tank that was with this engine, I'd suggest that you get the sludge out of it as well....

I'll suggest the 'dry' valve, as the side of the engine that didn't have as much of an oil leak past the valves, or rings....

Yes, you need to be looking for another set of followers... That one is gone, gone, GONE!
Let us know where you find the piece?

Uhmm.. DO NOT try to remove the crank/split the cases, while the pinion gear is still on the crank. The pinion puller is not an easy tool to find, and sometimes [ MOST of the time in my experience! ], the pinion gear has to have the puller to get it off.

Zoltan, what they said ^^

Yes, remove the wrist pin clips, heat the piston, then push (don't hammer) the wrist pin out. You can buy a wrist pin puller, but with heat you most likely won't need one.

Your tool list looks good.

I was able to remove the crank pinion with the technique shown in the DVD (my Triumph puller wouldn't catch it). Again, if you follow the DVD technique, be judicious in using the hammer.



I'd guess that your noise might be related to the tappet with the chunk o' hardface metal missing, that would make one heckuva clickety-clack, I would think.

If it's been suffering oil starvation at the cylinders then the whole motor is buggered TBH.

One of my cylinder sets had to go from std to 060" in one hit because the bore was so far out of round.

The scratching on the Pistons is because the bores had not been properly cleaned and they are showing evidence of grit from honing.

For end float .050" is mentioned, 018" is far too much tollerence.

The cam: until you remove it and mic each lobe you will not know the extent of any wear, those followers are complete toast as you know.

What evidence would suggest oil starvation at the cylinders? The oil was extremely dirty and wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't changed the entire 2000 mile length of this bikes life.

If I clean the sludge trap can I assume the pistons and cylinders are still useable (assuming they will get the proper oil in the future and prevent further scoring once I clean the sludge trap) the scoring is smooth and if the cylinders and piston clearance spec out then they should be fine to reuse right?

also as per the dvd he had some type of clutch plate tool he put in the clutch after removing some plates, what did you do for this?

In the pic I posted above somewhere, I described stripping the motor as far as I could go while still in the frame. That way, leaving the secondary (rear drive) chain in place, I could select a gear and apply the rear brake and lock things up so I could remove various Fasteners and things. And my 1/2" air impact. My garage is not heated also, but I did the work in late November when daytime temps soared to 40~45F. This doesn't help you now, though, sorry. Other than that or making the tool out of two clutch plates or buying one, I'm not sure what to suggest, others may know of workarounds.

But back to me, in my long story, I got my A65L of unknown history running and on the road, while some folks here told me I was only postponing the inevitable (of a total teardown). After riding it 20 miles, I decided to tear it down. As to which parts to replace, I'm going for everything (complete top end overhaul, and bearings and bushings, while cam and followers are OK in my case) with the attitude of, "I've come this far ..." and "I don't want to do this again anytime soon" and "in for a dime, in for a dollar."

Zoltan,
With only 2k miles on the engine, the pistons and bore should be FAR from worn out.
Likewise, the small end bushes...

But, the cylinder should have at least a light honing, and a thorough cleaning, then the clearance checked by someone who knows how to do this properly, then you can say weather or not it needs to be bored oversize...

Oil starvation... I have yet to see where this may have happened, I'll bet whoever said this to you, was fishing for higher profits.

..... Uhmmm.. If you have read any of the recent postings, there are aftermarket oil filters available, I'll suggest you try to have one on your parts purchase list, and get it installed.

..... Uhmmmm..........
I hate retracting my statement, and hesitate to do so...
With only 2k on the engine, the trap may not need to be cleaned so "early" in it's life...
But as much junk that has evidently been swirling around the engine shows, it appears the break-in services never were made to the engine, or a PO used used oil in an effort at 'economy'. _Dumb_!

Hmmm ...

You have to wonder if whoever "rebuilt" it cleaned the sludge trap.
Best to tear it down and measure everything, then you'll know what needs replacing.

So, right now I am going to strip the cases as much as I can with the tools I have available. I'm going to bring it to "sixth Street Special" here in new york city, who specialize in vintage british bikes.. I talked to the guy on the phone and it looks like he's going to split the cases for me, check for bushing / crank wear, clean the sludge trap, then reassemble the bottom end and end play and all that. He was thinking around a few hours of labor and they charge $90 an hour, granted if there is no real bottom end issues. I feel like $200-400 would be reasonable to pay for an expert to check it out and would ultimately probably cost the same with me buying some things like an impact wrench etc. I don't have the money to spend a few grand on a total rebuild at the moment so fingers crossed all the bushings and everything checks out with no wear or play. I'm also going to show him the pistons and barrels and hoping for just a honing on the barrels.

From many opinions on the web it looks like the past owner didn't ever change the oil as it was pretty sludgey when I drained it and didn't clean the barrels after the previous "rebuild" which Im hoping attributed to the slight scoring seen on the pistons and cylinders.

My worst case scenario Im hoping would be just replacing the cam follower and a top end rebuild.

took the engine to sixth street special downtown, very cool guy who specializes in british bikes. He didn't see anything that was concerning or in need to split the cases. He thought the cam was fine along with the pistons and barrels. He gave me a cam follower for $20 and I'm in the process of putting the engine back on the bike, fingers crossed the noise will be gone, though he really believed that too be the issue. No small end wear or play on the crank. Also thought no need to clean the sludge trap with only 2000+ miles. Also under all that carbon it appears that not too long ago someone did a valve job, he said they did it very well.

It's always worth while pulling the cases apart if the motor is at least half stripped.

I currently have an engine project under construction, came to me as a complete bottom end. The journals all measured up spot on and still on standard, however when removing the sludge trap it was full of crud. IF this gets any more blocked it will stop oil flow and trash the bottom end.

So it's always worth a look :bigt


Edit/addition

Reading the previous post you made, it is imperative that you strip the motor, it sounds like 6th street just don't want to take the work on even at 90$/hour. I will also add here, if you don't have the funds to get it right quickly, then prepare your self to spread the job out over a long time period or put it off till you have saved up. Do the job properly first time and save yourself the big bucks later down the road.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YrNG3wXK6b9w8KtQf7qw1GCoUXrXp_xnif0oj8VTTPo=w78-h140-p


Clogged sludge trap?? no problem.

Zoltan, good-buddy, not to pile on, but ...

I guess your plan makes sense if you don't plan to ride it much or keep it for long. I've mentioned my rebuild ('71 A65L) (probably mentioned it too many times), I'm going all the way since I plan to ride it a lot and keep it for a long time (I should live so long).

Also, how reliable is the information that the motor has only 2000 miles on it?