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Eric Offline OP
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What is the last known (frame & engine) serial number for the DBD ?
Catalina?

BSA Goldstar on eBay
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Originally Posted by Eric
What is the last known (frame & engine) serial number for the DBD ?
Catalina?
The indespensible "The Gold Star Buyer's Companion" has the answers to this question.

The last DBD Clubmans shipped had frame -11793 and engine number -7160.

The last Catalina had frame -900 and engine -7151. However, the one with the highest numbers was shipped three months earlier and had frame -901 and engine -7160.

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Yeah. Magnetoman's book is pretty good for such information.

Get the Brian Main-Smith book if you wish to learn more in depth stuff about these neat old bikes.


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Eric Offline OP
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Engine # 7160 in 2 different bikes ?

So ,, about 900 Catalina's built. And 5160 Clubman and/or Touring models ?

Also- please see auction item # 12140307431, shipped in 1965 ??

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Originally Posted by Eric
Engine # 7160 in 2 different bikes ?
Typo.

Originally Posted by Eric
Also- please see auction item # 12140307431, shipped in 1965 ??
There must be a typo in this number.

What is your interest in knowing these production figures?

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I think the ending numbers are not accurate on purpose... too many people that would fake it.. There are accurate records, but for that reason the info is not made public. Both the BSAOC and the GSOC have info, but you need to give them the info and they will verify it.. if one of the numbers is wrong, they will not tell you what it is supposed to be.

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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BSA-Gold-...t=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item1c442fe708


Bit like a tangled fishing line.....I have no idea on what this listing is about.



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Originally Posted by rick e.
I have no idea on what this listing is about.
I'm not sure what is the source of your confusion. The ad clearly says "This is not a restoration - it is a brand new "old stock" bike!!" Further, it is "Absolute 100% correct, original and more importantly unused." What could be clearer?

Like every brand new old stock bike that "No one ever ran," it "has scratches on exhaust, (where kick start has caught it , and boot marks as well as blueing on exhaust from when bike was running." But, "other than that as brand new." Of course "one day the tank or bike was dropped , damaging the tank. To get the dent out, they had cut a hole in the bottom and rewelded it," which is just what would be expected on a bike that is "Unmessed with, not repaired" and is "Absolutely standard and original." Oh, and because it is brand new it has "New clutch, valves, seals, new piston rings,) carb slide and all small moving things )." You know, just trivial things like clutch, valves, piston rings and carb slides that obviously need to be replaced on every brand new bike that has never been run and been "Kept in perfect condition."

Another great feature of this bike is since the seller "made all necessary enquiries when I bought it" all you have to do is give him the £21,995 and you can ride home knowing you are on a brand new, never been used, never been repaired, never been run Gold Star. What could be better than that?

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"It had been internally dismantled to stop the bike being started when on display as people...."



Thank god someone had the foresight. And I thought I was safe by not having fuel in the tank on mine.

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Originally Posted by rick e.
And I thought I was safe by not having fuel in the tank on mine.
No, at a minimum you need to remove the piston, valves, and clutch if you plan on leaving it unattended for more than a few minutes. I thought everyone knew that.

Note that the seller clearly knows a lot more about this than most people, given that he's been on eBay for almost a decade and has a 100% positive rating with over 1400 sales. This eBay listing should be read in the context of an ongoing discussion about sellers of Triumph TTs that is taking place on the Triumph Forum

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Its a classified ad not an auction for the 'unused' Goldie, so no comeback if the description is wrong as there is no Ebay protection which normally means the description form parts of a legal contract when part of their auction scheme. Buyer beware.

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Originally Posted by kommando
Buyer beware.
The Gold Star ad nicely illustrates why it is always up to buyers to vet the purchase of any old motorcycle for themselves despite what the seller might have told them, and whether or not some sort of legal remedy might be available to them later. In the case of the TT being discussed on the Triumph Forum the possible inaccurate representation by the seller actually is fairly subtle. TTs do sell for more than standard Bonnevilles, so it's a question of how much, if any, "additionally-inflated" the value might be if a TT is represented by a seller to be 1 in X rather than 1 in Y.

While the issue with the TT's value might be subtle, the G.S. ad should make the buyer's own responsibility in a transaction completely obvious. If a buyer took at face value the first line of the ad "A brand new old stock Motorcycle in mint condition," and spent £21,995 based on the seller's assertion, it would be difficult for me to muster any sympathy whatever for a later complaint that the seller had misrepresented it. Even if the seller hadn't mentioned the new clutch, valves, and rings.

Because of this, it falls almost entirely on the buyer to figure out how much an old bike is worth to them irrespective of how it is represented by a seller. This is the case even if after spending lots of time and money in some legal proceeding they might be able to convince a judge to award them some X vs. Y difference in price. It's probably worth mentioning another "problem": even if a seller thinks a particular bike is worth £20,000 and a buyer knows it's only worth £15,000, they're just not going home with that motorcycle even if they are willing to pay £16,000.

Further, misrepresentation of an "intangible" like rarity is quite aside from tangible, quite relevant issues when buying an old motorcycle, such as if it has the correct carb(s), the electrical system has been changed, there's a heavily worn cam, the valve guides are worn, the rings are seized by sludge, there are missing teeth on some of the gears, etc., etc. Unfortunately, often the only way to learn the answer to some of the questions about mechanical condition is after a machine is in your own garage. Despite anything a seller tells you, and your own careful inspection, it would be foolish not to mentally factor in some additional cost to repair broken/worn parts.

Luckily, most internal issues can be fixed later if necessary without having to spend a fortune. What can't be fixed is if the 'Gold Star' you just bought has a B33 engine in a "reworked" A10 frame, DBD engine in a BB frame, 'Std' gearbox restamped 'RRT2', front wheel from an A65, etc. This is why it is foolish for a potential buyer of any old motorcycle, let alone a rare or "highly desirable" one, not to be armed with all relevant information that is available when inspecting it. When buying old motorcycles it's "trust, but verify," with a very strong emphasis on the "verify."

p.s. Seller beware. It's easy to forget the other side of the coin. While most people reading this probably know what their Gold Stars (and Triumph TTs, and Brough Superior SS100s, and...) are worth, that doesn't mean their spouses do. At some point when your future-widow becomes a seller you can be sure a potential buyer will try to convince her the useless old bike is worth only $2000. If she does sell it for $2000 it's entirely your fault for not having informed her. You selfishly squandered $20,000 (or whatever, in 2014 dollars) of joint family money for something entirely for your own pleasure, and because you failed to provide her with relevant information she won't even see that money after you're dead and she is forced to apply for Food Stamps. Live with that guilt as you're turning over in your grave...

Last edited by Magnetoman; 08/09/14 2:18 pm. Reason: added p.s.
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Well the pictures look good.. but.. And that documentation sounds good.. but.. the seller sure got his years mixed up at a minimum.

However, if someone was serious, then for that kind of money you can hire an expert that will inspect the bike, then he can put the money in an escrow account until it arrives and is as promised. A bonifed seller may go for that.. Yes the sellers stats are impressive.. doubt you fake that.. not with that many...

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Originally Posted by Ron - in California
the seller sure got his years mixed up at a minimum.
The numbers are for a late machine, i.e. 1963. Although the heading calls it a 1965, the text says it is "As shipped to New Jersey USA in 1965." It doesn't actually claim it was shipped by BSA from the factory that year, only that someone shipped it.

Originally Posted by Ron - in California
for that kind of money you can hire an expert that will inspect the bike,
Or, you might look for one for ~$10k less, which seems to be the present high end of auction selling prices for Catalinas (including the 15% buyer's premium).


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