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so im ignorant. i see 90 degree mounts rather than straight runs. i see pretty thin metal brackets being used to attach struts.

what else should i be seeing here? aside from the fact that his welding is as bad as mine? maybe worse?

nice sidecar body, though. i have read that inder sidecars are a step up in quality from cozy. either seem better built than the no-name one i bave pictured above. js that the case?


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Go back to pureblood’s photo of the bottom side of his Harley rig. (one of his other threads) His two lower struts are parallel to each other and level. IMO this is ideal. You adjust the front strut for toe in/out.(the chair) With them parallel and level adjustments are a snap.

Now you go to the uppers.

The optimum location for the uppers IMO are to be angled away from their connection at the chair’s frame. Angled up and outward. Picture a 45 degree knee brace. With universal mounts your choices of mount locations are limited to free space on the frame…..and that’s not always the ideal location.

You adjust the uppers for lean in/out. ( the bike not the chair) But be sure you recheck the lowers. You might have pulled/pushed them out of level. Following up with what’s been said….if you have to adjust a lot…..one or more of the other struts might need readjusting.

His J strut should be connected to that 1” rod…..there should be no third front mount…….that thing is useless and can’t be adjusted.

The rear mounts??????? Lord hopefully you’re getting the picture.

The more I think about it……..the more I realize it’s really NOT that difficult but you need to understand that the struts need to do a job and be able to be adjusted. If you put them in a cockeyed fashion they might not move the chair/bike the way you need them to……when trying to adjust them.

See…….a man sets just one rig up and he becomes an overnight expert!!!!!

Once you have it in front of you…….and figure out what each strut’s job is……it starts to make sense.

God I should have never started this reply because I probably missed a lot…… but now I’m too stubborn to delete it.

Hopefully some of the REAL side car jockeys ( we know who are) will chime in and correct me if I got it wrong.

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 09/21/22 7:05 pm.

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Originally Posted by kevin
so im ignorant. i see 90 degree mounts rather than straight runs. i see pretty thin metal brackets being used to attach struts.

what else should i be seeing here?

nice sidecar, btw. i have read that inder sidecars are a step up in quality from cozy. either seem better built than the one i bave pictured above. js that the case?

What you see is a tutorial on how not to attach a sidecar. I still can't make up my mind if it's meant to be a joke, or if he is serious.


It's the design of the Inder tub that I think is better, but not so much the frame, it looks light and flimsy.

I think the Sputnik is superior to both, and it has a brake !

Last edited by Pureblood; 09/21/22 7:34 pm.

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the sputnik looks like a velorex clone, and while it may be up to date, the appearance of both really doesnt do anythjing for me.

ive looked at inder and cozy sidecars for years. still looking at whats available. the ural/dnepr chairs come up on craigslist. they look pretty sturdy. dunno about the rear wheel lead on those tho

im open though

https://velorexusa.com/

Last edited by kevin; 09/21/22 6:54 pm.

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Bite the bullet and get a Steib.

Used Ural are probably the best bang for the buck but since I never carry a human in my chair I don’t need that passenger access.

But you did hurt my feelings about the Velorex…….me and a hundred Jawa riders.

laughing clap beerchug laughing

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 09/21/22 7:04 pm.

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velorex mounts look better-engineered than any ive seen

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

im beginning to understand the geometry a bit better. the indian stuff all mounts to a single bar parallel to the bike frame, with only the front J-bar there to resist the sidecar folding up and in. velorex has a rigid subframe in ^^^this application, and then struts mounted higher up to triangulate the sidecar attachments.


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Originally Posted by kevin
the sputnik looks like a velorex clone, and while it may be up to date, the appearance of both really doesnt do anythjing for me.

ive looked at inder and cozy sidecars for years. still looking at whats available. the ural/dnepr chairs come up on craigslist. they look pretty sturdy. dunno about the rear wheel lead on those tho

im open though

https://velorexusa.com/


I think it's hard to go wrong with a ural/ dnepr/ CJ chair, they are as solid as can be. I like the look of the Velorex Jawa 560 sidecar, it has style. I think the Sputnik has style too, least that one does compared with the newer ones. You get a lot for your money with that one, it's also practical.

Last edited by Pureblood; 09/21/22 7:49 pm.

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Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
Bite the bullet and get a Steib.

Used Ural are probably the best bang for the buck but since I never carry a human in my chair I don’t need that passenger access.

But you did hurt my feelings about the Velorex…….me and a hundred Jawa riders.

laughing clap beerchug laughing


lol

i laugh at jawas everytime i still see one.

except on a flat track, that is. i havent seen one n the street since i was 16 years old

but the more i look at the velorex, the better i like the design. theyre way expensive new, but im looking at used right now on searchtempest

Last edited by kevin; 09/21/22 7:45 pm.

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Originally Posted by kevin
velorex mounts look better-engineered than any ive seen

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

im beginning to understand the geometry a bit better. the indian stuff all mounts to a single bar parallel to the bike frame, with only the front J-bar there to resist the sidecar folding in. velorex has a rigid subframe in ^^^this application, and then struts mounted higher up to triangulate the sidecar attachments.


I don't know where the mounts on my Harley came from, most came with the bike when I bought it complete with the sidecar. It was a total disaster of an effort, with struts at weird angles and things that doing things that to this day I can not understand.

I stripped everything off and started again from scratch. I ended up with something that looks quite similar to the pics you just posted above. It's easier to start afresh rather than try to make the best of a bad job.

I had to make alterations to the sidecar so as to get everything leveled up with the subframe on the bike.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The subframe on the bike was the least straightforward but worked out fine.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by Pureblood; 09/21/22 8:23 pm.

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ive asked the sputnik guy if his very-affordable sidecar comes with any of th mounting hardware


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Those photos of the mounts……a lot going on there. Absolutely three lower struts and it looks like a tube running up from the frame to the front upper strut????? Never saw that before but makes me feel better about my design.

I got mine in 2010 for $500. Passed on a couple before that for the same price. I’m thinking $1000-1500 now????? But you might do better you just might have to remove some awful painted lady with lions on a leash.

There’s a member on here……lives in Ohio that picked one (560) up at a OVBSAOC rally a few years back. Don’t think he got around to ever mounting it. I asked awhile back if he’d sell……he said no back then. Want me to ask him again?


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The Velorex was designed to be used on 250/350 cc bikes. So they are lightweight. Not something you’d want to mount on a big bike IMO. But one of the nicest rigs I’ve seen was a KZ1000 Police with a 560…just had the look.

If money was not factor…….. I’d love a Steib


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Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
The Velorex was designed to be used on 250/350 cc bikes. So they are lightweight. Not something you’d want to mount on a big bike IMO. But one of the nicest rigs I’ve seen was a KZ1000 Police with a 560…just had the look.

If money was not factor…….. I’d love a Steib


Lightweight rigs can easily be made as heavy as desired. My lightweight Bingham is not so lightweight now.


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[quote=kevin]velorex mounts look better-engineered than any ive seen

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Other than these mounts are cool as hell and mine are cobbled together.

My rear upper strut is at the same angle as this front strut, but in the opposite direction. The universal clamps wouldn’t let me do that so I made something to connect to that was rearward of the shock mount.

Straight like the one in the photo is fine IMO but if you moved the top of the strut towards the front of the bike……..that’s not good IMO

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 09/21/22 8:31 pm.

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Originally Posted by Pureblood
Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
The Velorex was designed to be used on 250/350 cc bikes. So they are lightweight. Not something you’d want to mount on a big bike IMO. But one of the nicest rigs I’ve seen was a KZ1000 Police with a 560…just had the look.

If money was not factor…….. I’d love a Steib


Lightweight rigs can easily be made as heavy as desired. My lightweight Bingham is not so lightweight now.

True but the lightweight frame might not be up to the task. New Velorex frames are stronger than the 70s models. So some stiffening might need to be done too.

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 09/21/22 8:30 pm.

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Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
I got mine in 2010 for $500. Passed on a couple before that for the same price. I’m thinking $1000-1500 now????? But you might do better you just might have to remove some awful painted lady with lions on a leash. . . .

There’s a member on here……lives in Ohio that picked one (560) up at a OVBSAOC rally a few years back. Don’t think he got around to ever mounting it. I asked awhile back if he’d sell……he said no back then. Want me to ask him again?

absolutely. the more i look at the velorex the more i consider my aesthetic objections to be bullsh it.

i used to paint cars for a living. you cannot show me a weird paint job that can intimidate me.


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Originally Posted by kevin
the sputnik looks like a velorex clone, and while it may be up to date, the appearance of both really doesnt do anythjing for me.

ive looked at inder and cozy sidecars for years. still looking at whats available. the ural/dnepr chairs come up on craigslist. they look pretty sturdy. dunno about the rear wheel lead on those tho

im open though

https://velorexusa.com/

The wheel lead depends on the position you mount the sidecar, it makes no difference if the sidecar came off a 2 wheel drive outfit or not.


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i see.

i thought the urals/dneprs were set up to require the rear wheels in line.

learning every day here.


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Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
Originally Posted by Pureblood
Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
The Velorex was designed to be used on 250/350 cc bikes. So they are lightweight. Not something you’d want to mount on a big bike IMO. But one of the nicest rigs I’ve seen was a KZ1000 Police with a 560…just had the look.

If money was not factor…….. I’d love a Steib


Lightweight rigs can easily be made as heavy as desired. My lightweight Bingham is not so lightweight now.

True but the lightweight frame might not be up to the task. New Velorex frames are stronger than the 70s models. So some stiffening might need to be done too.


Adding weight with steel sheet can strengthen the frame considerably. That's how I did it anyway.


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Originally Posted by kevin
i see.

i thought the urals/dneprs were set up to require the rear wheels in line.

learning every day here.

Unless I'm missing something, it's only the 2 wheel drive outfits that need to have the sidecar wheel in line with the rear wheel of the bike.


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nah i thought they were all like that


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Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
Those photos of the mounts……a lot going on there. Absolutely three lower struts and it looks like a tube running up from the frame to the front upper strut????? Never saw that before but makes me feel better about my design.

I got mine in 2010 for $500. Passed on a couple before that for the same price. I’m thinking $1000-1500 now????? But you might do better you just might have to remove some awful painted lady with lions on a leash.

There’s a member on here……lives in Ohio that picked one (560) up at a OVBSAOC rally a few years back. Don’t think he got around to ever mounting it. I asked awhile back if he’d sell……he said no back then. Want me to ask him again?

From what I can see it tooks like the subframe is attached to the frame of the bike underneath, in two places, only about eight inches apart. I'm not really sure what the purpose of the upright tube is, I can only assume it's to give further strength to the subframe as its strength is in doubt. I can see that it is clamped to the frame in the normal forward strut mounting position.

It looks to me like whoever put that together made it unnecessarily complex. Maybe he just had a load of expensive sidecar mounts he wanted to get rid of ?

Last edited by Pureblood; 09/21/22 9:49 pm.

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I kept up with Velorex USA for awhile and purchased a few pieces from them. I don't remember seeing anything like that. But it's been a long time since I visited them (online) so I don't know what's available now.

We're just gona disagree (and that's not a bad thing) about using the down tube as a mounting point.....by itself. I already admitted I knew nothing about sidecars......LOVED them at 16 but never rode/drove a rig until around 2010..........so I don't have a bank of knowledge. I put a LOT of metal in my subframe....but I was trying to spread the stress across it instead of the frame.....and I tend to over do things. (ya think?)

I haven't shown a closeup of my rear upper strut sub frame...........because it's embarrassingly thick. The bike could be broken in two and that sucker will still look like the day I bodged it. It runs from the swing arm spindle to the shock mount.......then a tang to the rear for the mount. I love it but it is embarrassing.

I have a work background that includes cast in place concrete.....I learned the hard way you can never put to much bracing on a form, but you certainly can put too little.


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Originally Posted by kevin
i used to paint cars for a living. you cannot show me a weird paint job that can intimidate me.

That's the BEST laugh I've had in YEARS!!!!!!!! I'm still laughing laughing

You look at some and all you can think is "WHY????????" Knowing all along someone else stepped back and said "DAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMNNNNN"

I'll check with him......but he could have let it go by now......he's gota few wrenches in his family.

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 09/21/22 11:09 pm.

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Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
I kept up with Velorex USA for awhile and purchased a few pieces from them. I don't remember seeing anything like that. But it's been a long time since I visited them (online) so I don't know what's available now.

We're just gona disagree (and that's not a bad thing) about using the down tube as a mounting point.....by itself. I already admitted I knew nothing about sidecars......LOVED them at 16 but never rode/drove a rig until around 2010..........so I don't have a bank of knowledge. I put a LOT of metal in my subframe....but I was trying to spread the stress across it instead of the frame.....and I tend to over do things. (ya think?)

I haven't shown a closeup of my rear upper strut sub frame...........because it's embarrassingly thick. The bike could be broken in two and that sucker will still look like the day I bodged it. It runs from the swing arm spindle to the shock mount.......then a tang to the rear for the mount. I love it but it is embarrassing.

I have a work background that includes cast in place concrete.....I learned the hard way you can never put to much bracing on a form, but you certainly can put too little.

In the pics posted by Kevin show the front upper strut is mounted to the frame of the bike. It's not like your design.


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