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has anybody cobbled up a fork brace for the 1960s TLS forks?


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Originally Posted by kevin
has anybody cobbled up a fork brace for the 1960s TLS forks?

Does a VW steering dampener count? laughing

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 09/20/22 4:02 pm.

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lol

that part is easy

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

one of these things, except modifiable for a 1969 A65

[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]

. . . or something that accomplishes th esame thing

Last edited by kevin; 09/20/22 1:10 am.

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Norman Hyde used to do a fork brace--- but I dont know if they fitted those forks.
HTH

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Originally Posted by kevin
lol

that part is easy

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

one of these things, except modifiable for a 1969 A65

[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]

. . . or something that accomplishes th esame thing

Damn you kevin….now I have dampener envy!!!! laughing

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 09/20/22 4:03 pm.

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iirc, that norman hyde brace was for disc brake models, bur something like it would be perfect

gordon, look up el cheapo chinese steering dampers on ebay. i use a cognito moto damper on my LSR, but 20 chinese units might have been a better deal


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kevin…..I went with the VW bit because that’s what other rig owners recommended. My first real trip (500+ miles) I got a wheel wobble leaving a gas stop…….first time it had happened and boy oh boy was that a surprise. 0 to maybe 15 mph and I was struggling to hold on. It smoothed out but I had to find a way to keep that from happening again. Asked around and came up with the VW dampener. Hadn’t had the wobble since ( only experienced it that one time…but that was enough)

BUT…….that unit you pictured looks like a trick….I’m going to lust after something like that….it’s a curse and this time around….your fault

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 09/20/22 4:04 pm.

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Fist of all can I say that I admire people that go for the uncoventional ie fitting a sidecar to a bike that BSA never really intended to have one.But now that your project seems to be nearing completion you should may be start thinking about the handling of an outfit like yours, reading your first post you say that you are going to use it for your campnig adventures. So I assume that you are going to use the sidecar to carry your camping gear, if that is so then you need to realise that sidecars were designed to carry people and there will be a significant difference in weight between an adult in the sidecar and camping gear. This will have an effect on the handling over there in the USA your sidecar is going to be on the right hand side of the bike so going round right hand corners you will have to be careful that the sidecar wheel does not leave the ground otherwise you will lose complete control of the outfit. I am speaking from experience having in the past had a few scary moments when adjusting from riding solo to a combination. The previous post said that you do not need a steering damper well back in the day when I rode a few combinations one of the first things you did when fitting a sidecar was to tighten the steering damper you needed much stiffer steering than a solo machine to counteract steering wobble.

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photobob…. kevin dug up an old thread of mine. This thread started back in February of 2010.

The rig did around 4000 miles before I took it down for an engine rebuild. ( long story)

Today it’s waiting on an engine from Ed V. It’s engine is on the bench and is too pretty to put back in the bike ( told you it was a long story). I have upgraded the front end and now have a TLS brake up front.

You have never camped with me……we could change that? I carry a LOT of gear and you’d be surprised how much the kitchen sink weights. I didn’t have any problem with ballast. Even when I wasn’t camping I carry enough tools and spares that no extra weight was needed.

My experience is the same as yours when it comes to a steering dampener. I only experienced wheel wobble ( at very low speed) once but adding the dampener was a big plus on how the rig “felt” going down the road. To date no more wobble.

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 09/20/22 4:07 pm.

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Yes-- tighten the steering damper down hard.
If you then get a steering shake-- a bit like a tank slapper on a solo then accelerate--that gets rid of it.

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Originally Posted by Tridentman
Yes-- tighten the steering damper down hard.
If you then get a steering shake-- a bit like a tank slapper on a solo then accelerate--that gets rid of it.

I realize we’re talking about two different things?

Adjustable steering dampener vs a dampening strut?

My B44 didn’t come with a steering dampener. I added a dampening strut to stiffen up the steering……..so maybe they are doing the same job? I’ve never had a bike ( that I remember?) that had an adjustable steering dampener.

The wobble I experienced was on start up and like Tridentman said……increasing speed smoothed it out. I believe if it would have happened at 50-60 mph I might not be here typing.

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 09/20/22 5:35 pm.

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dammit, ive been trying to put these pictures up for thirty minutes. slow-fi tonight

im not concerned about setup. you learn as much as you can, put it on, mess with it, learn more.

this indian one is in texas, just a no-frills tub with simple four-point frame mount, no fancy stuff, but looks like it could easily be adapted to a subframe. 20-gauge sheet metal, not fibreglas.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

frame is just a rectangle , swingarm has a vertical pillar to mount the upper end of the shock.

current price is US$2200, including shipping and universal mounts


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my kids race a 250 ninja that has a tendency to wobble. even with a straight chassis, correctly loaded steering head bearings , no odd weights, it will shake its head gently at 40mph and oscillate to a tank slapper if not restrained. a single fingertip on the bars will prevent the wobble.

the little ninjas are famous for this. the only cure for mine is a new front tire, no matter how much rubber is left to go. i get about 1000 to 1500 miles before the wobble reappears. il experiment with dampers eventually, but for the moment i just tell the kids to keep their hands on the bars.

i use dampers on whatever i race as well. sometimes the rules require them. i fell down at 115mph once on my bonneville because of a wobble, so i take them seriously.


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Pureblood wrote “Heres a video showing the sidecar I was talking about. He needs to start all over again with fixing it to his bike. I would not take that out on the road. smile



Photographic proof……..it’s not as easy as one might think. wink or at least as some might think

My guess is that thing will go down the road……but his mounts are an absolute mess IMO. He starts out with his front lower looking okay…then it all goes to hell But…..he thinks it’s good enough to actually document it…..kinda reminds me of a build thread on here recently.

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 09/21/22 3:47 pm.

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Originally Posted by Pureblood
Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
Photographic proof……..it’s not as easy as one might think. wink or at least as some might think

My guess is that thing will go down the road……but his mounts are an absolute mess IMO. He starts out with his front lower looking okay…then it all goes to hell But…..he thinks it’s good enough to actually document it…..kinda reminds me of a build thread on here lately.

The upright connection thing looks familiar.

Where he has a universal mount standing upright? Very clever. cool

To quote the builder “Its quite a job”

More like……..” I started off with the front lower strut mount on the opposite side of the bike……by the time I got over to the chair side…..the mushrooms started kicking in” laughing

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 09/21/22 3:52 pm.

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so im ignorant. i see 90 degree mounts rather than straight runs. i see pretty thin metal brackets being used to attach struts.

what else should i be seeing here? aside from the fact that his welding is as bad as mine? maybe worse?

nice sidecar body, though. i have read that inder sidecars are a step up in quality from cozy. either seem better built than the no-name one i bave pictured above. js that the case?


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Go back to pureblood’s photo of the bottom side of his Harley rig. (one of his other threads) His two lower struts are parallel to each other and level. IMO this is ideal. You adjust the front strut for toe in/out.(the chair) With them parallel and level adjustments are a snap.

Now you go to the uppers.

The optimum location for the uppers IMO are to be angled away from their connection at the chair’s frame. Angled up and outward. Picture a 45 degree knee brace. With universal mounts your choices of mount locations are limited to free space on the frame…..and that’s not always the ideal location.

You adjust the uppers for lean in/out. ( the bike not the chair) But be sure you recheck the lowers. You might have pulled/pushed them out of level. Following up with what’s been said….if you have to adjust a lot…..one or more of the other struts might need readjusting.

His J strut should be connected to that 1” rod…..there should be no third front mount…….that thing is useless and can’t be adjusted.

The rear mounts??????? Lord hopefully you’re getting the picture.

The more I think about it……..the more I realize it’s really NOT that difficult but you need to understand that the struts need to do a job and be able to be adjusted. If you put them in a cockeyed fashion they might not move the chair/bike the way you need them to……when trying to adjust them.

See…….a man sets just one rig up and he becomes an overnight expert!!!!!

Once you have it in front of you…….and figure out what each strut’s job is……it starts to make sense.

God I should have never started this reply because I probably missed a lot…… but now I’m too stubborn to delete it.

Hopefully some of the REAL side car jockeys ( we know who are) will chime in and correct me if I got it wrong.

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 09/21/22 7:05 pm.

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the sputnik looks like a velorex clone, and while it may be up to date, the appearance of both really doesnt do anythjing for me.

ive looked at inder and cozy sidecars for years. still looking at whats available. the ural/dnepr chairs come up on craigslist. they look pretty sturdy. dunno about the rear wheel lead on those tho

im open though

https://velorexusa.com/

Last edited by kevin; 09/21/22 6:54 pm.

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Bite the bullet and get a Steib.

Used Ural are probably the best bang for the buck but since I never carry a human in my chair I don’t need that passenger access.

But you did hurt my feelings about the Velorex…….me and a hundred Jawa riders.

laughing clap beerchug laughing

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 09/21/22 7:04 pm.

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velorex mounts look better-engineered than any ive seen

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

im beginning to understand the geometry a bit better. the indian stuff all mounts to a single bar parallel to the bike frame, with only the front J-bar there to resist the sidecar folding up and in. velorex has a rigid subframe in ^^^this application, and then struts mounted higher up to triangulate the sidecar attachments.


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Originally Posted by Gordon Gray
Bite the bullet and get a Steib.

Used Ural are probably the best bang for the buck but since I never carry a human in my chair I don’t need that passenger access.

But you did hurt my feelings about the Velorex…….me and a hundred Jawa riders.

laughing clap beerchug laughing


lol

i laugh at jawas everytime i still see one.

except on a flat track, that is. i havent seen one n the street since i was 16 years old

but the more i look at the velorex, the better i like the design. theyre way expensive new, but im looking at used right now on searchtempest

Last edited by kevin; 09/21/22 7:45 pm.

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ive asked the sputnik guy if his very-affordable sidecar comes with any of th mounting hardware


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Those photos of the mounts……a lot going on there. Absolutely three lower struts and it looks like a tube running up from the frame to the front upper strut????? Never saw that before but makes me feel better about my design.

I got mine in 2010 for $500. Passed on a couple before that for the same price. I’m thinking $1000-1500 now????? But you might do better you just might have to remove some awful painted lady with lions on a leash.

There’s a member on here……lives in Ohio that picked one (560) up at a OVBSAOC rally a few years back. Don’t think he got around to ever mounting it. I asked awhile back if he’d sell……he said no back then. Want me to ask him again?


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The Velorex was designed to be used on 250/350 cc bikes. So they are lightweight. Not something you’d want to mount on a big bike IMO. But one of the nicest rigs I’ve seen was a KZ1000 Police with a 560…just had the look.

If money was not factor…….. I’d love a Steib


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[quote=kevin]velorex mounts look better-engineered than any ive seen

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Other than these mounts are cool as hell and mine are cobbled together.

My rear upper strut is at the same angle as this front strut, but in the opposite direction. The universal clamps wouldn’t let me do that so I made something to connect to that was rearward of the shock mount.

Straight like the one in the photo is fine IMO but if you moved the top of the strut towards the front of the bike……..that’s not good IMO

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 09/21/22 8:31 pm.

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