Britbike forum Forums British Motorcycle specific Brands Bsa bulletin board Sidecar on a BSA unit single

Ah, thanks Gordon, I'd totally missed that thread, very nice, thanks.
I assume the B60 is a modified B50, a very spiffy outfit.

Sidecar? How come we haven't seen any BritTrikes yet?

It's only a matter of time, heck, you're halfway there, keep up the good work.

Saw a Triumph Rocket 3 Trike at Daytona this year. That ought to "Get 'er Done!"

I presume the exhaust pipe clears.

Larry, that's a fair question. When I look back over the thread I realize I hadn't posted any photos showing the muffler mocked up. I also only mention the muffler breifly concerning the sub frame having to be it two pieces.

So the answer to your queestion is yes....there's a muffler/head pipe that will fit.

Let me explain since I haven't mentioned it yet....here's the story. (and I'm sticking to it)

One of the things I REALLY wanted to do with this rig was to KEEP the SS down pipe and muffler, it's one of the things I love about the bike. So when planning the sub frame/car attachment I kept that as one of my top priorities. At first it seemed do-able (and it probably is for somebdoy) but when it came time to fab up the metal for the front strut, my first plan didn't work out so I had to come up with a plan "B"....in doing so I had to bite the bullet and I will be using the high pipe set up instead of the low.

It won't be too bad a swap....gota weld a tab on the upper rear strut's sub frame to attach the later VS muffler to.

There's still a slim chance I can fit the low pipe (I need about 1/4")...and I haven't completly given up but will look at it again when the engine is back in. Worst case it, I have the high pipe set up if all else fails.

No progress (well, I did get it all welded up) yet, my Mc Master-Carr order was messed up and I had to re-order. Bits should be here by Monday and I can start on it again

Take care......Gordon Gray in NC, USA

Ya know Gordon, with the sidecar mounted up the pipe and muffler will be hard to see anyway. I like the Roadster or Shooting Star low exhaust as much as you do. Perhaps you could have a primary side pipe fabbed up. Maybe modify a unit twin pipe to fit or have one made from stainless...

OK. The SS exhaust did not look like it would fit to me the way you have it. I didn't want to be the fly in the ointment at this late stage.

Yea Don, you and I talked about it before. I wanted the down pipe but when I moved the 1 1/2" tube to the car side and away from the middle...I had to take the head pipe off the bike to just to fab it up...I knew it wasn't going back like it was and just decided to live with it.

You have to pick your battles and I figured that one wouldn't be to hard to live with.

I've welded the sub frame up and installed back on the bike....just to be sure everything's still in the same place before I drill and install the lower rod ends (when and if they get here).

Since it was brought up....I put the stock Roadster's head pipe and muffler back on just for shits and giggles...and it's close...but still probably won't fit up without some more work. I'm pretty much convinced....I can live with the high pipe.



All these are unit single pipes...the one on the far right is a custom B50 pipe by ED V....so something like that is an option. I figure I'll get the car frame mounted...reinstall the engine and then figure out what pipe/muffler will work the best. But as you can see...I have a way out no matter what.

It's pretty much the least of my worries.

It was over 80 degrees here today...I'm going to have to mow grass tomorrow.

Take care....your friend in NC, USA Gordon Gray

Well Larry I liked the idea that somebody was actually paying attention :bigt.

I really love the low pipe and muffler....and it still might happen but I've pretty much talked myself into dealing with it later...I want to RIDE/DRIVE this thing.

Take care and thanks for taking the time to ask....I've never minded somebody looking over my shoulder. If I get something right they see it...and sometimes they can save me a LOT of grief.

Your friend in NC, Gordon Gray

Crikey, you have quite the collection of unit singles bits...including pipes and mufflers. Where does that 6 sided thing go, I have all the parts books,but can't find it.

I saw mufflers at /www.classicbikeshop.co.uk that look ok..have you experience with that store and those mufflers?

...........

Back a while ago I said I'd seen some European campouts from the SR500 forum, I found one, and it's a video I posted in the 'Motorcycle Camping' thread.
camping video: http://rei97.de/film/soelk2009.wmv

There are some sidecar rigs there, no real closeups, but there was a picture collection from the same site that had lots..still looking.

Project looks good!

Bodger...man oh man I love that video. :bigt I could almost smell the wood smoke and feel the rain. It made me want this rig ready NOW. I'm going to have to go back to work soon (one way or the other) and won't have all this free time on my hands. So the sooner the better.

I've never shopped at Classic Bike Shop so have no opinion on them.

The 6 sided thing??? It's a Suspended Triumph Decorating Devise or a STDD....you fill it with sunflower seeds or some other seed/grain then hang it over your neighbor's Triumph (heaven knows you wouldn't own one!) and let the flying critters feed...and decorate....simple...heh?

Take care...Gordon Gray in NC, USA

Well...I'm waiting on parts for the sidecar frame attachmnet, and the dew to dry off the grass so I can mow so I thought I'd mess around with this muffler/head pipe deal a little.

Here's the stock set up...and you can see how far off it is. I could have down sized the 1 1/2" tube to 1 1/4" and "maybe" it would have worked.






Here's the high pipe's head pipe...with plenty of room to spare.




Here's a homemade pipe off the floor joist storage that might work.




OH....or have ED V make one up that followed the same angle of the sub frame's 1 1/2" tubing???

It'll all work out one way or the other...it's part of the fun....Take care...Gordon Gray in NC, USA

PS...I can tell you this, that some day my mentor D.Bacthel is going to fab up a sub frame to a BSA unit single frame...it's going to be a lot nicer than the one I've made (he's an artist when it comes to this stuff) and once he's got it finished we'll post photo's of it to this thread. Again, in hopes one day to help somebody else through this process. The way he plans on doing the forward upper strut shouldn't interfere with any stock BSA unit single head pipe/muffler set up.

Well....sometimes I just hate myself. I can be dumber than a box of rocks and this time around I've really out done myself.... to quote one of my favorite entertainers (Pink)

"Don't let me get me"

I'd rather not explain it, but there's not going to be any car frame attachment this weekend...I'll have to wait until Monday when I can make a quick trip to the machine shop.

Oh well....at least the weather's nice and I have PLENTY of yard work to do.

Pissed in NC,USA.... Gordon Gray

Fess up! What happened?

Awwww Larry, I'm just suffering through a spell of IdontknowwhatthehellImdoingitis.

I thought I had it figured out.

The car's struts come with clevis's at the end of the four struts. I got 4-12mm solid rod end eyes from Sonny (aka Floyd) when I picked up the sidecar. I promply misplaced one. I had it out measuring it and musta laid it down somewhere...I can't find it. So....I try my best to find some more through the Internet. Solid rod ends/eyes, you would think that would be easy....well for me it wasn't. Finding the right eye with the correct width and hole size (for the bolt that holds the eye and clevis together)was a chore, in fact I never really found what I was looking for and finally figured I could get one a little bigger and cut it down. Oh yea, this is where I really turn into ME. I get the eyes today...rework one just fine, took my time and made sure it fit up right...but I'm still not feeling warm and fuzzy about it because of the way I'm having to remove the metal...a 4 1/2" angle grinder. Yea..."don't let me get me". Well with the first one out of the way I start on the second (I only had to do two!).....this time I'm in a hurry, it's getting late and there are dogs to feed...so instead of taking my time I rush it and bugger it all up. I'm really not telling the whole story because I'm to embarrassed...the rod ends I was trying to use weren't the right ones to use to begin with..I should have never tried to "adjust" them. Live and learn....but sometimes I'm not sure I'll live long enough. I sorta feel like I messed up the second one because I KNEW they weren't right to begin with.

Now....I have the right way to do this...sitting right here in the shop. But I'll need to go to the machine shop Monday because I don't have the 14mm tap and die to do what I need to....to get it right. Monday afternoon...all will be well and I will be over myself...until the next time.

Thanks for the shoulder to cry on....I'm a cobbler, I'll admit it...I'm guilty.

Later....w/pictures (not of the mess I made today) Gordon

Clevis ends, male and female, 14mm with a 12mm bolt.
Not rod eyes or spherical or heim joints...thas different hardware.
Gotta get them from Velorex(Mark) and we know how that worked out for ya last time.

Okay let's try to clear this up a bit.

Keep in mind that all side car attachments aren't the same, what I have is what I got with my car, a 1979 Velorex 562E.
Also keep in mind this problem I'm having is with just the two lower struts...mainly because I misplaced one of the bits that came with it and I was trying to transfer the load to both sides of the sub frame.

Here we go:

First this is the lower rear strut. What you see on the end (right side) is what D.Bachtel is calling the male end of the clevis...it goes on the bike's frame or sub frame. It attaches to the female end which is screwed into the sidecar's strut, the strut is attached to the sidecar's frame. This is where some of the confussion starts. I call both of these "rod ends". One (the female) a "clevis" rod end and the other (male) a "solid" rod end.



Here's both of the lower attachment points. The clevis you see on the right goes with a curved bar that is still attached to the sidecar's frame. The male end...with the eye and threaded end closest to the sub frame is what I misplaced. Here's where the problem started. I'm missing one of the male ends. (I'll find it 6 months from now). Also, at the same time it was mentioned that I needed to help transfer the load across the sub frame by running the male end all the way to the other side of the sub frame. (please keep in mind I've never done this before and I'm pretty much clueless)



So I scratched my head and butt for awhile and looked at a BUNCH of suppliers and couldn't find the correct size male end to fit into the female clevis end, have the same size bolt hole and be long enough to reach the other side of the sub frame. I had ordered some bits from Velorex, but had trouble getting stuff from them and was pretty sure they didn't have a 6" long male end anyway. So here's what I tried, a female threaded rod end and threaded rod (would have had nuts on the inside of the sub frame too) to make sure I was transfering the load across to the other side of the sub frame.



What was wrong about that rod end is it wasn't the correct thickness and I had to grind it down...AND it was a "ball joint rod end" not a "solid rod end". I figured if I had to grind down just the portion of the "ball" so the end would except the female "clevis rod end" once I put a bolt through it it would be okay. ( I had to take off 2mm of material from each side of the ball which made it the same thickness as the rod end's body) Looking back...it probably would have worked, but it wasn't right and I buggered up the second one anyway.


So....here is what I'm working on now.



This is actually a male (solid) rod end for the side car's frame that I finally got from Velorex. If I were to use them and still worry about trying to transfer the load to the other side of the sub frame, I would have to come up with something to connect it to the other side. I think that since it's so close to the end of the subframe (on both ends) the force would transfer anyway????????

I'm open for suggestions....

Okay...that took WAY to long to try to explain.....sorry.

Whatcha think???....do I need to attach the male (solid) rod end to the opposite side of the subframe or not????

Take care...and PLEASE BE SAFE out there....we need all of you around for a LONG time....Gordon Gray in NC, USA

Does not the end member of the subframe already transfer the load to the other side?

Larry, I'm not an engineer but I think it would because of how close the rod end would be to the end of the sub frame. (It's positioned in the photos correctly)

BUT if that rod end was long enough, it sure wouldn't hurt if it went all the way to the other side (like the photo where I had the threaded rod in place).

BUT....it's not long enough and I couldn't find anything "off the shelf" that was. So I came up with the threaded rod idea.

To attach it all the way across now...I'd have to drill and tap a solid piece that I could weld in place. It couldn't hurt...BUT I don't have any metric taps and dies that size...oh and since there are several different metric 14mm threads, I'm not 100% sure what size it is anyway. Hence the trip to the machine shop.

Or...does somebody have another idea?????

I think the load would transfer anyway....but DO like the idea of it connecting to the other side.

I'm in Commercial Construction and over engineering is an everyday thing we deal with.

Take care....Gordon Gray in NC, USA

Well, it took awhile but I finally have the lower side car struts attached to the sub frame.

I had these made up by a friend of mine.



The part that has the eye and threads, Velorex calls an "eye bolt"...D Bachtel calls them "male clevis ends" and I call them "a shouldered solid rod end" . At this point...I don't care what we call them because they're history.



Here's the side car attached (temporarily). I have to weld those pieces in place (for the "eye bolts") and have the front upper strut lengthened....and I'm ready to go. UH....well I'm still waiting on a tire. Seems they are coming over from the old country...some fellow has a pile of them tied together and he's swimming and pulling them along with him.

I'm going to spend next week bolting the bike back together...hope I get some work before I have to sell it. But if it has to go...I'll put another one together.

Take care....Gordon Gray in NC, USA

Well, I FINALLY got the sub frame finished, struts lenghtened and the car's frame is attached to the bike via the subframe.




I would have never in a million years thought it would have taken this long...to do something that seemed so simple.



Now I have to take it back apart and do a little grinding and paint the darn thing. THEN I can put it back on and give it a try.



I've not tried to level it up..it's close in this picture but will still need tweaking once it's together. We'll go through that together...the set up.

I have to finish the engine up....I had it together then got to thinking about a couple of things I'd just said "aw, that's good enough" to and now I have it back apart....shouldn't take long to have it back in the bike. Funny thing is....I've had this bike for YEARS....and have never had a chance to ride it...not once...never. Others have, but not me so I'm really looking forward to it.

Now if I can just talk Mr Healy into taking a look at the busted cases....it might be "whole" again some day. Yea, I know...I've heard it before, "It's only a Victor"....but some of us love em....no accounting for some people's taste...heh?

Take care....Gordon (aka GooberG) Gray in NC, USA

Possible solution to keep the std low level downpipe, the B25 and the C15 have lower exhust ports, fitting one of these to a B44 will raise the whole pipe by the difference in head heights. The front engine mounting bracket will be also raised by the same amount which will need sorting but you should get more clearance at the bottom.

The C15 pipe bottom run is straight unlike the B25/B44 which has a kink in it to allow a closer run to the frame, this may be a further advantage.

Kommando, thanks...I hadn't thought about that. But I do have a couple of low level 250 pipes and can give it a try.

If I had it to do over I think I would move the upper strut's support back to the middle like I had it before. The main reason I moved it is....I'm using the gussets (for lack of a better term) at the steering head that already have a hole in them (horn,reflectors) to attach the top part of the sub frame.

The problem is.....with the larger VR/SS tank those holes come very close to the front of the tank. I didn't like the idea of having a plate on both sides...with a bolt head and nut that close to the inside of the tank. A VS tank doesn't even come close and would clear easily. So with this in the back of my mind it sort of pushed (I did it to myself) me away from having the upper portion of the sub frame in the middle of the bike (running with the bike's downtube) and sandwiched between two new plates at the steering head gussets.

Like I said...If I had to do it over again I would come up with a way for it all to work that way but for now I'm going to live with what I have...and if it's going to be used on a VS instead of a VR/SS it would work okay like it is.

Thanks for taking the time to help....take care...Gordon Gray in NC, USA

Hi Gordon:

Just thought I'd let you know that I've been following along and am very impressed at all that you've done. I hope you're going to be pleased with the final outcome, and I should caution you that side cars can be addictive. Please return to your regularly scheduled program now!

Best Regards,

Floyd aka Sonny

You know Floyd, I brought the car home and flew into starting to set it up...figured I'd be riding it in a week...two tops. Well it didn't work out that way and to tell you the truth I'm glad it didn't. I've learned SO MUCH through this process...and that's priceless.


I'm close....very close to giving it a try. I'll be posting pictures of the set up process....and hopefully photos of it on the road.


Thank you for the help.....I couldn't have done it without ya.



Your friend in NC, USA Gordon GRay

Dude!

The only help I gave you was loading it into the back of your pickup and waving goodbye as you turned out of my driveway, but even that was definitely my pleasure! Best of luck as the project nears fruition.

Your friend

Floyd aka Sonny