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#230638 01/01/09 2:20 pm
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HUGOCT #230747 01/01/09 11:46 pm
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this is where i have gotton alot of my racing supplies over the years about 80 miles from home but they carry a large supply of many different name brand items gloves leathers boots helmets and yes motorcycle parts probably the coolest shop around the mid-west thanks for adding this HUGOT.

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Thanks Hugoct a very nice link
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very cool

wfo900 #235259 01/30/09 3:25 pm
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Interesting B40 with a B44 crank... Mann's trials bike. Anyone know details of this modded engine? I have heard of something similar through EV Eng, but wondering if its an easy conversion or requires lots of machine work.

Kyle#44x


Kyle#44x

1969 T100R Daytona
2005 CRF450 flattracker (w/Athena 490 big bore)
2002 Yamaha TTR250 (woods/hare scramble)
kboyd #235311 01/30/09 7:36 pm
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Originally Posted by kboyd
Interesting B40 with a B44 crank... Mann's trials bike. Anyone know details of this modded engine? I have heard of something similar through EV Eng, but wondering if its an easy conversion or requires lots of machine work.

Kyle#44x


That's kindof a puzzler there....something is amiss...since a B40 with a B44 crank pretty much gives you a B44....and 441 cc. I think I've heard of other people putting B44 cranks in B25's and with Triumph 500 pistons (69 mm) getting a long-stroking 350 for trials. Wonder if there's a typo or something there.


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
Alex #236215 02/05/09 9:14 pm
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I thought it was a BSA 250 bottom end and a 441 top end that made a 343cc stroker. I don't know what rod/piston/crank is used for it though...

Kyle#44x


Kyle#44x

1969 T100R Daytona
2005 CRF450 flattracker (w/Athena 490 big bore)
2002 Yamaha TTR250 (woods/hare scramble)
kboyd #236218 02/05/09 9:26 pm
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Nah, B40 (343 cc) has the same stroke as a 250 (70 mm), and same bore as a 441 (79mm), so if you put a 441 crank (90 mm) in a B40 (which has the same bore as a 441) all you get is a 441 (79X90 mm).

Unless, of course, I'm just completely missing something here...


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
Alex #236221 02/05/09 9:49 pm
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B40 cases are bushing on the timing side like an A65
B44 cases are ball bearing with positive feed to the crank
B40 military crankshafts are ball bearing with positive feed
B44 cases + B40 military crankshaft + B44 cylinder (shortened) gives you are very nice 350 (same as what Dick Mann used when they changed the shorttrack rules to 360 and the the factory Triumph flattrackers in 1975)

HUGOCT #236230 02/05/09 10:27 pm
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See, now THAT makes sense. Exactly what I was doing when I was going to build a B40 GP bike. B40G crank in a Victor motor. Should rev like a B25. Still think it would make a fun track bike, but I just don't think it could match the power of all the cammy competition...


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
Alex #236306 02/06/09 3:38 pm
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Thanks for the info, Bill & Alex. That does sound like a fun project and would fit in my 0-400cc class (they bumped it in '09 up from 125-375cc), same as the Stockton vintage lightweight class from last year. Still would get left in the dust by Pat Orman built xl350's or Snyders Bultacos. Might even have an RD350 in my class this year... yikes! I'm on the RT2 360 this year, but considering a YZ/DT400 if I come across one cheap...

I'd rather do up a Brit single though! Are the BSA B40 and Victor parts hard to find or expensive to buy/build? Would one bolt into a dry Tri 250 frame?

Thanks,
Kyle#44x


Kyle#44x

1969 T100R Daytona
2005 CRF450 flattracker (w/Athena 490 big bore)
2002 Yamaha TTR250 (woods/hare scramble)
kboyd #236368 02/06/09 9:23 pm
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there is a reason that almost nobody competed on the 350 CR Sprints and even less people competed on the 350 Triumphs...they are slow...compared to the 2 stroke 360s or even the 2 stroke 250 twins that ran in that period...and they cost a lot to keep running at a competitive level

HUGOCT #236628 02/08/09 12:21 pm
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'See, now THAT makes sense. Exactly what I was doing when I was going to build a B40 GP bike. B40G crank in a Victor motor. Should rev like a B25. Still think it would make a fun track bike, but I just don't think it could match the power of all the cammy competition...'
Alex, are Goldstars competitive with the cammy competition? Pushrods can work, they aren't particularly a limiting factor. It sounds like it would have a lot of potential esp if the B44 is a lot like an A65 in valve angles and combustion chamber, which it probably is seeing how the B44 pistons fit in A65s. The bore stroke would sure be good if the rest could handle the revs, and you had gears enough to keep it in power all the time, why wouldn't it be able to be competitive?


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Mark,
The 360 two stroke singles and the 250 two stroke twins just eat the 350 four stroke singles alive
When I talked to John Hately, Rob Morrison, and Mark Williams about their experiences with the 3 works specials they were all underwhelmed by the power going up against Yamaha MX and YZ 360s as well as the Bultaco 360 Astros.

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Hey guys dont forget Greg Sassaman on his 350 Powell Hassel Harley - Davidson sprints he was able to acheive success with them as he was reginal class champion around 1974-75

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Hugoct, Alex I think was talking of a road racer, do they allow the two strokes in that as well? Or might they have a 4stroke only class? Or maybe have a displacement variation between the two?


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I think the success of the Powel Hassel Sprints had a lot more to do with Greg's ability than the motorcycle
If I was building a bike today for flattrack (I don't know jack about the current vintage roadrace thing) it would be a 360 Bultaco Astro or an MX/YZ 360 Yamaha...they are available in quatity and comparitively cheap to operate
There were only 3 Triumph/BSAs built for the factory guys and they only rode them because they were part of the deal
One of the reasons Gary Scott left Harley after winning the championship was he felt the Sprint was no longer competitive on the GNC level (no one had won a shorttrack national with one since 1970)
I really like Sprints..have 2 X Nix, 2 X Lawwill, 1 Markel, 1 McMurren and 3 CRTTs, but they are fragile and very very expensive to maintain and tend to make very expensive noises from time to time
The Sprint works against other 250s in the rigid frame brakeless class but as a 350 it would not be my choice of weapon

Alex #236809 02/09/09 2:32 pm
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Yea, I was talking about roadrace in 350 GP (sorry about the topic drift). Mark, I think you are right that it could be done. Particularly since the 350 GP championship has been won by a pushrod 350 three times in the last 10 years (Aermacchi/Harley). The amount of money and effort required, not to mention the riding competition means that I'm not the one to do it. I've got other irons in the fire and I think I'm going to concentrate on twins, where I have now a lot more expertise and parts stock.


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
Alex #237024 02/10/09 8:32 pm
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Thanks for all the good input. For money reasons I'm going to proceed with the Yam RT2 360cc motor, either with the head skimmed a bit or the MX360 head, which really bumps the compression up when used with the RT cylinder. The 250 I used the last two years is just too pipey and wants to throw me off coming out of the corners.

I have a Bultaco 360 motor and a Pursang frame for it, but it is too pricey for me to rebuild right now. It needs gone through from the crank out... but that short rod and fat piston sure look like it would be a real hoot to ride. Now I know why Snyder's Bultacos sound like a 4-stroke when he blasts by me!

Kyle#44x


Kyle#44x

1969 T100R Daytona
2005 CRF450 flattracker (w/Athena 490 big bore)
2002 Yamaha TTR250 (woods/hare scramble)
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Here is the latest crunch for me I had high hopes this year for a great shot in Ahrma 250 gp but my guy just sold the 250 crtt Harley Aermacchi it was in a Drixon frame and was really fast it had all kinds of exotic parts in it from Holland and would rev 12,000 rpm one of Dave Ropers buddies that used to race a Norton seeley bought it im sure he paid 15,000 to 20,000 for it. now we just have a John Bazore framed street 350 engine for 350gp with a n6 camshaft and high comp. piston i call it old reliable it handles really nice but it has no where near the speed or performance of that 250 I thought he told me he was at least going to keep the 250 engine for the Bazore Frame so we could run both 250gp and 350 gp with it and sell the guy another cr250 engine he had. That engine was fast enough to put us in the hunt I guess it comes down to money these days cash seams slow everwhere so sometimes the good thing must go, what really sucks is i will have to compete against that bike in 350gp and It seem pointless for me to spend alot of money myself for travel expenses,hotels and everything else that goes with it to end up in 7th -10th place and riding it to the extreme (riding over ones head) to get that 7th-10th place. dont get me wrong its still a blast to do and i enjoy it but im still in my 30's pushing 40 and would like a taste of the champain again Now my mind is thinking dig out my ex Wayne Rainy-Jim Filice 93 Tz 250 and shoot for open 2 stroke

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First day back after a computer crash and surprised to see the new forum location.Great improvement! For Flattrackers content, Is there going to be any Vintage flattracking at, or near, Daytona during bike week coming up? I'm longing to hear a Triumph Twin snarling out of a corner on dirt somewhere.Is that still possible anywhere?

Ed Johnson
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Ed Johnson #237594 02/14/09 12:45 am
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In Remembrance
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Ed,

AHRMA Vintage Flattrack events during bike week are scheduled for March 1st at Jasper Fla and at Orlando Fla on March 4th.

I agree with you that there is nothing quite like the Triumph snarl coming out of a corner for some reason - especially at a flattrack!

I hope to be a spectator at the Orlando event.
beerchug


Last edited by Britbodger; 02/14/09 1:05 am.

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