Britbike forum Forums British Motorcycle specific Brands Bsa bulletin board Rocket Goldstars

I am looking to create a new topic about RGS' specifically. Of the 1,584 Rocket Goldstar's produced, I'm aware that there are only about 3,000 left.

I just thought that I would start a list of the RGS' that are documented or not. I will start off with my Rocket Goldstar "Special" which I still have not been informed what exactly is special about it, but was stated in my dating certificate to be one.

http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u289/wade-o27z/?albumview=grid&fullsize=red3.png

http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u289/wade-o27z/?albumview=grid&fullsize=IMG_6702.png

Wade-O's RGS collection.

Alright guys,
These are the RGS's that I'm aware of on this forum and are very nice examples.

I hope no one is offended that I took their pictures and copied them to this thread. I would like to encourage anyone else with any RGS' to contribute pictures and/or information so that we can document actual information that is difficult to find on the RGS's.

Thank you to all that contribute!

Dave

Hi Dave tried to email you a picture and discovered that this new site does not allow for that at least i could not find a way to email you directly. Also annoyingly bounces you out of a topic when you wish to log in and comment. I like the idea of an RGS reference file. will need to ask morgan to anchor it near the top if there is enough interest.

Here are some pics that my good friend Wade emailed to me to add more to the list.

Les Josey's 1962 Rocket Goldstar



Picture taken by Walt Malec of an original Goldstar Twin



Hi Rob,
Thanks for the effort to email a picture. How about you post a picture of your bike here.

If anyone is aware of other RGS', please post pictures, links, or you can email me from BritBike and I will post them.

Thanks,
Dave

This is an email I received from Bob Gaukel along with the pics he sent.

"I think I have the longest running RGS project in history (my kids may need to finish it). Got it in the late 70's, didn't know what it was until about the mid-80's, and been trying to piece it together ever since. The attached pics are basically what I started with. Lots of chrome including the frame, not much more than the engine and frame (have the engine top end bits). Luckily, BSAOC England confirmed that the match #s. Dispatched Feb 1963 to New Jersey.

Stripped the chrome off of the frame and had it straightened. Been buying parts for a long time - still looking for a few more bits."

Here is another one of the remnants of an RGS in pretty rough shape, but it shows a lot of the key elements. Thanks Wade.

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/553507272wPUZWX?start=0



Dave

Geoff Ullmann's Goldstar Spitfire Scramler







These pictures were taken in 1964 and are about as original as you can get. The bike belonged to Geoff's brother and Geoff still has the pink on it and the frame # was GA10 1538 and he would love to one day locate the bike again. It was purchased new in N.J. in 1964. The only modifications his brother had done to it, was to add the baffles to the exhaust. As he remembers it was really loud even with the baffles! He also had the primary cover chrome plated and I'm not sure about the chainguard. The rest is as he purchased it. The light kit had already been installed. Geoff owns a 1970 A65T and is in the process of restoring a 1969 TR6R but would love to get his hands on a 63 Spitfire! Write to him at [email protected] if you know of one for sale!

Hi Dave, the pictures that Wade sent you clearly show the correct under seat bracket detail you were looking for.
Just an aside I clearly remember having a 420 main jet in the 1 5/32 Monobloc in the rgs I owned in UK. That was without an air filter. On my current RGs I am running a 410 main jet with a K&N. with the standard airfilter I believe I ran a 350 main jet .
Does anybody have any other data or settings?
Also how do you email one another directly on this new board?
My digital connection to the brain must be severely compromised because I cannot find a way to do it

Peter Dietrich's 1962 BSA A10 Goldstar Spitfire Scrambler





BSA A10 GSS has correct numbers, as well as the tank, seat, and all the hard to find bits. The bike runs very strongly, and is a first kick starter. The overall condition is not original, however all the important pieces are there. It comes with original light kit, and has the factory Dynamo, and Regulator installed. Frame# GA10 327 Engine # DA10R 7390 Transmission # ASCT.

Here is a picture of an RGS that I took back in the early 80's -- about 20 years before I knew what an RGS was.

I've had some requests about posting some picture of the NOS RGS wiring harness that I have. Here they are.







Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,
Dave

Can anyone tell me if these are the correct petrol taps for a 1963 RGS? These are the original ones that came with my bike, I just want to make sure that they are right. Also, if anyone knows, is there anyone that rebuilds these because they were leaking?



Thanks,
Dave

Dave, they are correct. They are known as "taper cocks". You should be able to buy them from a tube fitting supplier or similar such as engineering supplier. Here in Oz they are readily available.
Alternatively, you could try lapping the taper to the bore with fine paste and finish with Brasso or similar metal polish. Go carefully and you should get them to seal. If you remove too much metal, the spring will stand proud of the body and you will not have any tension on the taper. I know from experience and had to file the end of the taper to restore tension but the taps did seaTrev.

Thanks for the info Trev,the bike sat for alot of years.I will try a good cleaning and lapping.I would like to keep the bike as original as possible.
Thanks again Dave

Yep I concur with Trev, definitely right. Try and reclaim them as the satin chrome finish seems to be unavailable-replacements usually chrome.
On lapping you can re-establish the spring pressure by carefully
shimming . If the small end of the taper is dead ending with the washer that control rotation limits you can carefully file the shoulder for clearance.
Then you can re-shim.

Only question on originality from the picture is the lever itself.
They appear to be straight where I think the originals might have been like mini baseball bats in profile.
Probably the angle that picture is taken at.

Mainjet sizes!
Like to get some feedback on main jets that are fitted to RGS's?
I would like to know what you guys have found and whether jet is with or without air filter.
I am upto a 400 with a K and N filter .
Bike seems to run very well but did seem reluctant to rev much past 5000.
Some hint of clutch slip in the lower gears and a tach that seems to zero out at 800 revs when engine stops may be disguising the real problem.
(Clutch slip)

Hey Rob
This is just a guess but I think these taps are plated with hard chrome.Do you know if the taper was originally plated or brass.I was thinking I could lap the tapers and have them re-hard chromed.
Thanks Dave

pretty sure it is not hard chrome. originals were a gray plated, finish -known as satin chrome.If yours clean up as shiny , decorative chrome they are probably not the ones BSA put on.
If you need to see some- Norton used satin chrome on most of their hardware in the fifties and sixties .Velocette used it on their rocker oil feeds and handlebar bolts.
And of course Gold stars had the the same tap.
Your lapping will be brass on brass if you are going with original stuff

Thanks for the info Rob,I think I will leave them how they are and just get them working right.I will need to do something about the filters,they have a couple of splits.
Thanks Dave

I found another RGS this weekend about 60 miles from my house. Owned by forum member 'BritTwit'. Besides the RGS, Dan has has an incredible collection of Goldstars and A-10s.











Here are a few shots of Dan's other bikes:

Continued:

great resource, its nice to gather all the pics in one place!

so, I know my bike is not standardly named an RGS, but I see so many parts that are the same, I really wonder what the official differences that make an A10 Rocketly Golden? I'm sure it's been discusses at length, but since this thread is dedicated, it might be nice to collect that too? hopefully I haven't doomed the thread to rivet counting and disputation...

is it the big valves? is it the 8" half width brakes? is it the... ??

is it just what the factory records say it is?! I like the first line in your first post, of the 1584 made, we only know 3000--> good stuff!

Hey Snow,
Good Question. I'll gather up some of my information. I'd like to pull together the most correct info and put something together in the next day or two.

Thanks,
Dave

Okay, here we go.

According to the heading from the BSA Parts Service Bulletin No. G21:

"All parts except those listed below are as shown in the Super rocket or Gold Star Part Catalog. Parts marked with + are new components for the Rocket Gold Star and not used on other models."

So, according to the bulletin, there are 39 parts that distinguish the RGS from other models.

Based on my research, a lot of what makes an RGS are letters and numbers. There are very particular parts, but many variations within the RGS model. All RGS' had engine number 'DA10R' as the prefix and all frame numbers had 'GA10'.

Frames were specific to RGS for the following reasons:
* Four lug cast front motor mounts
* Large front neck gusset
* Gusset for rear sets
* No pillion loops on RGS Scramblers
* Center Stand

It has been stated many times that all RGS' were equipped with the RRT2 transmission. I believe this to be false because I've seen so many variations. For example: STB, ARRT, STBT.

I've also seen it stated that all RGS' have the large Goldstar type tank painted in silver, which many models, including the RGS Scrambler, RGS Special and RGS came with a small tank painted in red, black and silver depending on where it was dispatched to. I have no facts to back this up, this is merely based upon the research that I've done.

The fenders, front and rear, are specific to RGS only. Rear fender stays are arrowhead type, also specific to RGS.

Front forks are the same as the Goldstar with the upper triple tree not having a fork lock. And either chrome headlight shrouds with fork gators, or tubular headlight bracket with clip-on bars. Tachometer and speedometer were specific to RGS USA and UK versions.

Brake options were standard 8" front or 190 mm with hammer tone finish. Rear brake is quick disconnect with finned cast iron drum. Rear brake pedal is different for forward or rear controls operated by brake rod instead of cable.

Rims are 19" chrome/steel or alloy front and rear.

The engine is a Super Rocket A-10 with some upgrades; 9:1 pistons, 1 1/2" intake valves, 1 5/32" mono-block carb (389/94 for 1963), thick flange cylinder barrel and I believe that the cylinder head was specific to RGS. Twin exhaust pipes for the US model with Siamese as an option.

This is all based upon my 5 years of research in rebuilding my RGS. Given the fact that I was born four years after the last one rolled of the assembly line and never saw an original one, I welcome and encourage any corrections and additions to the listing above.

Thanks,
Dave

Hi dave, that is a really good list- congrats.
couple of extra comments, The late super rockets also had the extra cast lug front engine mounts so these frames are the ones that the better forgers look for.
Thete is also a subtle difference in the positioning of the battery tray supports and the frame cross tube just above it.I caanot recall if it is closer or wider but if you jam a couple of fingers between these on a std frame then compare to a genuine RGS there is a difference.

Nice list,

Also: Inner primary cover, rear chain guard, taillight/license plate bracket (also used on some Bantams), one of the four rear fender mounting brackets (other three same as on A10), front fender mounting brackets, Speedo & tach mounting brackets, plus there are other parts that are shared with the Gold Star.

How about decals for the RGS, are there any that are unique to this bike? On the top of taillight housing, I've seen; 1) stacked rifles, 2) stacked rifles with 650cc under the rifles and 3) stacked rifles with 650cc Twin under the rifles. Anyone know which came on the bike?

Hi Bob,I contacted Classic Transfers in the UK an told them I needed decal set for an RGS.The set they sent me had the stacked rifles with 650cc below.I believe this to be correct for RGS.

Hey Dave,do you know where your Spitfire was originally dispatched to?I have heard that the west coast USA bikes got the 18" rear rims.
If your interested I have a decent Jones rear 18" rim you can have for the price of shipping.
Thanks Dave

Can't find any images of motorcycles on the link RGSdave posted.

It seems to the frame and engine numbers would be the most difficult to fake.

Bob

Hi if anyone need tocheck there numbers i have a copy of the factory records .

Would you possibly have a copy of the Competition Shop records?

Lloyd I don't think those have been found since John Gardner's demise. I was recently told from a very good source that he actually told his wife to destroy the records upon his death. Seems there was some conflict between him and others that wanted the records.


Bill B...

Yes, I know but it does not hurt to ask.

Hi i dont have the comp records ,yes John did tell wendy to get rid of all his records .

To destroy valuable historical documents for some petty dispute is, in my opinion, a CRIME.

He has cheated future generations of needed information by doing so.

https://image.ibb.co/iKzNKJ/FCC294-CF-9258-42-BC-B788-35-A96357435-A.jpg

My bike

Is it ridable with the bars at that angle?

What angle should they be at? Jeff

All those PIX? No vin? (brit= S/N)

Here is one of my 3 A-10 also have 61 Gold Flash and 63 SR.
GA10 below 62 or 63?

Dave C. that's a '63 road frame.

I missed this post what RGSDave listed as what was different about the RGS vs the Super Rocket or other models at the time. One thing that should be pointed out is the East coast version was usually the same as the home market spec where the West coast version had some variations. Different rear fender and braces, dual header pipes, narrow seat, small 2 gal fuel tank, and other same items. There were BSA parts service sheets no. N8 and N9 that listed the different parts for West and East coast versions of RGS's and Gold Stars.


Bill B...

Road frame can tell from pix, but is it 63 by VIN? or 62?
Strange but my 63 SR has cast lugs top and bottom on front down tubes..
On 61 GF are cast lug top and welded tube on bottom as expected.

I think the "4-lug" GA7 frame was introduced for the 1962 model year. The RGS GA10 4-lug frame was a variation on that.
The frame designation usually tied in with the frame specification (e.g. CB32 with rearset mounts for Gold Star, CB34 with no pillion footrest loops for Alloy Competition/Clipper), but apparently the GA10 numbering was used for both the road and off-road RGS frames.


Hmm, Morgan's serial number page shows the GA7 frame from 1960 on, so my 1962 is way off.

Hopefully, Bill will be able to provide more insights.

The early GA7 frames only had two cast lugs. I think that the four lug frame came in 1962.

Thanks.
There must have been something else in the fittings or dimensions that BSA considered worth changing the frame designation for.

If you do a simple search for BSA numbers you will find that your frame number is in the '63 range. For '63 GA10 frame numbers started at GA10 390 for both road and scrambler models.


Bill B...

I call it a frame number and not a VIN number because Oregon, and a few other states, used the engine number as the VIN. During the GA10 era BSA did not match engine and frame numbers.

Always some interesting replys. Here in Mass, only on old "harlys" the engine # is used, otherwise here the VIN is the same as the VIN as entered on the current Federal certificate of origin. Most people have not seen this document but I have copied 3 of them on new vehicles before surrendering it at RMV for new titleing and registration.
Since all these brit bikes are imports to the USA. As far as registration procedures, I consider them to be 50 little countries (states) and all are similar or different. LOL

The brits call it a serial number but they do what pleases them for their "home market".

Remember: when the U.S Constitution was adopted it was by 13 "little countries" who agreed to merge to become one, for their common defense.

But they reserved the rights to make their own laws and regulations for their own citizens in their own jurisdictions.

How does on get a copy of that Federal Certificate or Origin?
I assume it is issued as a type of receipt for payment of import tariffs?

Think the original certificate winds up at the first DMV that registers the vehicle.

I have been reading this thread but still do not see the answer to my question.. I would like to build a BSA Rocket Goldstar replica from a BSA Road Rocket I have. What I am looking for are the exact differences between the frames. I am not going to change the frame number but I would like the physical looks of the Road Rocket frame be identical to a BSA Rocket Goldstar. Can you find that info anywhere?

The biggest difference is the swing arm. The Road Rocket, except for the early '54/'55 models, used a full width rear brake that was actuated by a cable. It had a different brake lever and fittings added to facilitate the cable. The front lugs and added mounts for rearset pegs in the passenger peg loops were also distinctive.

There has always been a reluctance to spell out or publish all of the exact details on the RGS for the reason of just what you are doing, making a replica. The old saying of "out of the 1500 RGS's built only 2500 remain" (or something to that effect) comes to mind. I think it was an issue that may be overstated but there were a lot of unscrupulous builders out there that were trying to pass off their replicas as original to buyers to make more money. This was made easier with the frame model designation being the only official identifier, the engines were pulled off the Super Rocket engine build line randomly with no sequence.


Bill B...

I have the despatch records for 1957 Spitfire Scramblers, but for exactly this reason I'll tell people if their engine and frame left the factory together, but I won't tell them what the corresponding number should be if they aren't correct.

One guy, whose numbers weren't correct, tried to convince me to tell him the correct frame number to match his engine "in case I run across the correct frame." Yeh, sure, with just ~400 of those machines made over a half-century ago, like that would happen. I should have been offended that he thought I was stupid enough to fall for that.

OTOH
Henk runs a section on the WM20 web forum for people who have mismatched numbers in order that the original engine & frames can be reunited
And of course it also identifies who has the offening orphaned parts which makes attemping to fake difficult because the owners names are there on the web.
HAs been very successful in reuniting engines & frames
Of course we are talking different animals and vastly different quantities and prices .

ARE YOU SAYING THERE ARE DISPATCH RECORDS FOR 400 57 SPITFIRES? I OWN A WELL-DOCUMENTED 57SPITFIRE AND WHILE I DO NOT HAVE THE DISPATCH RECORDS ALL OF THE RESEARCH I HAVE DONE AND INFORMATION I HAVE RECEIVED RECEIVED OVER THE PAST 15 YEAR PUTS THE NUMBER AT AROUND 215. WHAT DO THE DISPATCH RECORDS ACTUALLY SHOW?

There were 424 of them, all but one sent in calendar year 1957. However, the engine of one of those 424, that had been sent to the U.S. in 1957, appeared again in the records three years later in a different frame and sent to Japan. So, that would make the total 423½.