Britbike forum Forums British Motorcycle specific Brands Bsa bulletin board Rocket Goldstars

All those PIX? No vin? (brit= S/N)

Here is one of my 3 A-10 also have 61 Gold Flash and 63 SR.
GA10 below 62 or 63?

Dave C. that's a '63 road frame.

I missed this post what RGSDave listed as what was different about the RGS vs the Super Rocket or other models at the time. One thing that should be pointed out is the East coast version was usually the same as the home market spec where the West coast version had some variations. Different rear fender and braces, dual header pipes, narrow seat, small 2 gal fuel tank, and other same items. There were BSA parts service sheets no. N8 and N9 that listed the different parts for West and East coast versions of RGS's and Gold Stars.


Bill B...

Road frame can tell from pix, but is it 63 by VIN? or 62?
Strange but my 63 SR has cast lugs top and bottom on front down tubes..
On 61 GF are cast lug top and welded tube on bottom as expected.

I think the "4-lug" GA7 frame was introduced for the 1962 model year. The RGS GA10 4-lug frame was a variation on that.
The frame designation usually tied in with the frame specification (e.g. CB32 with rearset mounts for Gold Star, CB34 with no pillion footrest loops for Alloy Competition/Clipper), but apparently the GA10 numbering was used for both the road and off-road RGS frames.


Hmm, Morgan's serial number page shows the GA7 frame from 1960 on, so my 1962 is way off.

Hopefully, Bill will be able to provide more insights.

The early GA7 frames only had two cast lugs. I think that the four lug frame came in 1962.

Thanks.
There must have been something else in the fittings or dimensions that BSA considered worth changing the frame designation for.

If you do a simple search for BSA numbers you will find that your frame number is in the '63 range. For '63 GA10 frame numbers started at GA10 390 for both road and scrambler models.


Bill B...

I call it a frame number and not a VIN number because Oregon, and a few other states, used the engine number as the VIN. During the GA10 era BSA did not match engine and frame numbers.

Always some interesting replys. Here in Mass, only on old "harlys" the engine # is used, otherwise here the VIN is the same as the VIN as entered on the current Federal certificate of origin. Most people have not seen this document but I have copied 3 of them on new vehicles before surrendering it at RMV for new titleing and registration.
Since all these brit bikes are imports to the USA. As far as registration procedures, I consider them to be 50 little countries (states) and all are similar or different. LOL

The brits call it a serial number but they do what pleases them for their "home market".

Remember: when the U.S Constitution was adopted it was by 13 "little countries" who agreed to merge to become one, for their common defense.

But they reserved the rights to make their own laws and regulations for their own citizens in their own jurisdictions.

How does on get a copy of that Federal Certificate or Origin?
I assume it is issued as a type of receipt for payment of import tariffs?

Think the original certificate winds up at the first DMV that registers the vehicle.

I have been reading this thread but still do not see the answer to my question.. I would like to build a BSA Rocket Goldstar replica from a BSA Road Rocket I have. What I am looking for are the exact differences between the frames. I am not going to change the frame number but I would like the physical looks of the Road Rocket frame be identical to a BSA Rocket Goldstar. Can you find that info anywhere?

The biggest difference is the swing arm. The Road Rocket, except for the early '54/'55 models, used a full width rear brake that was actuated by a cable. It had a different brake lever and fittings added to facilitate the cable. The front lugs and added mounts for rearset pegs in the passenger peg loops were also distinctive.

There has always been a reluctance to spell out or publish all of the exact details on the RGS for the reason of just what you are doing, making a replica. The old saying of "out of the 1500 RGS's built only 2500 remain" (or something to that effect) comes to mind. I think it was an issue that may be overstated but there were a lot of unscrupulous builders out there that were trying to pass off their replicas as original to buyers to make more money. This was made easier with the frame model designation being the only official identifier, the engines were pulled off the Super Rocket engine build line randomly with no sequence.


Bill B...

I have the despatch records for 1957 Spitfire Scramblers, but for exactly this reason I'll tell people if their engine and frame left the factory together, but I won't tell them what the corresponding number should be if they aren't correct.

One guy, whose numbers weren't correct, tried to convince me to tell him the correct frame number to match his engine "in case I run across the correct frame." Yeh, sure, with just ~400 of those machines made over a half-century ago, like that would happen. I should have been offended that he thought I was stupid enough to fall for that.

OTOH
Henk runs a section on the WM20 web forum for people who have mismatched numbers in order that the original engine & frames can be reunited
And of course it also identifies who has the offening orphaned parts which makes attemping to fake difficult because the owners names are there on the web.
HAs been very successful in reuniting engines & frames
Of course we are talking different animals and vastly different quantities and prices .

ARE YOU SAYING THERE ARE DISPATCH RECORDS FOR 400 57 SPITFIRES? I OWN A WELL-DOCUMENTED 57SPITFIRE AND WHILE I DO NOT HAVE THE DISPATCH RECORDS ALL OF THE RESEARCH I HAVE DONE AND INFORMATION I HAVE RECEIVED RECEIVED OVER THE PAST 15 YEAR PUTS THE NUMBER AT AROUND 215. WHAT DO THE DISPATCH RECORDS ACTUALLY SHOW?

There were 424 of them, all but one sent in calendar year 1957. However, the engine of one of those 424, that had been sent to the U.S. in 1957, appeared again in the records three years later in a different frame and sent to Japan. So, that would make the total 423½.