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Hi Guys,

It’s Matthew in Toronto, not to be confused with Matthew in Fredericton.

First the good news and then the bad news, I had problems with my leaking pushrod tube seals a couple of weeks ago but I am glad to report I fixed the problem. Took the head off, got the appropriate squish between head and barrel, no more leaks, I was well pleased.

Did about a hundred miles on the bike and then took off on Friday morning with all the lads on big trip up north. On Sunday evening driving back to Toronto I had covered about five hundred miles and all weekend the bike just purred along.

Now the bad news, I was going up a hill and the bike started to get real sluggish, slowly losing power. I pulled over and there was black smoke pouring out the exhaust, and oil leaking out of the tacho connection. I opened up the oil tank and to my horror there was hardly any oil in the tank.

So had a coffee let her cool down and one of my buddies went to get some oil. After he returned I poured 2.5 liters in the oil tank. It was pretty dry!

So I limped along to a garage and got on the phone to my trusty wife to come and pick me up. This was about four miles; oil was streaming out of the breather tube, black smoke out of the exhaust. While I was waiting for my wife to come and pick me up I checked the oil, hardly any in there!

What is the process I should follow to get to the bottom of this and any clues on what my problem could be?

Cheers
Guys


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Matthew
1970 T100S
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clogged oil return line?

Wet sump?

Pull the sump plug. How much oil is there?

Steve


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Hi JubeePrince,

I will pull the sump plug tomorrow.

What I did notice after filling up with oil and re-starting the engine, the oil was pumping out of the return at the top of the oil tank.

Cheers
Matthew


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T100S -
Sad news. Hope you caught it in time.

Oil returning to the tank is a better sign than none, but that's about the extent of it. You really have to measure the amount in the sump to be sure the pump is doing its job.

This bike doesn't have an oil filter, does it?

:bigt:


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RF Whatley
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Hi Richard,

Just went out to the garage and drained the sump, yikes, a lot came out.

Quick guess, more than a litre less than two.

No oil filter.

Cheers
Matthew


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Matt from Canada #2 -

There are instructions on the GABMA site how to deal with this issue. A filter will cut the possibility of recurrance to nearly zero.

Highly suggest you steam clean the inside of the oil tank for extra safety. You can do this tank-on-the-bike if you disconnect the oil lines and put a plastic bag over the exposed ends.

Once back together, I'd ride the bike and test engine oil pressure to be between 50-80 with warm 20W50 or other common weight oil at ~3000 RPM. An oil pressure test is the quickest way to test for rod big end damage, which is your main concern.

Don't deal in speculation. Don't guess. Measure.

:bigt:


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Thanks Richard,

I will get stuck into this during the week.

Cheers
Matthew


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What is the process and equipment you need to test the oil pressure?

Will follow the info on the GAMBA site and see what is happening with the oil pump.


Cheers
Matthew


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There is a special gauge setup that shops use, but you can unscrew your oil pressure warning lamp sender, and screw in a 0-150 pressure gauge and crank the bike. (Borrow the gauge, you'll only need it for 2 minutes.) Have the oil warm from a mile or 2 of riding. Screw in the gauge just enough so that it doesn't blow out. Run the RPM up and read the pressure.

Fairly simple.

:bigt:


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Hi Guys,

I had just over 2 litres in the sump after draining it.

Will keep you posted after I have the oil pump out.

Cheers
Matthew


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I don't agree with RF that you NEED to check oil pressure after you fix the wet sump issue.
If it seems ok after fixing and the rods aren't knocking, (they won't be) and you're getting oil return, you're not going to take it apart to put new bearings in it.
If your oil pressure sending unit has never been off, the threads will probably strip on removal.
IMHO If it is working and the light goes out, you're more than OK.


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Well, the advice given is based on what I personally would do in this instance. I concede it is, first and foremost, my opinion only. But here's the "why" behind the thinking....

1) Big-end wear has got to be a concern. Not a huge concern, but enough of one where you'll want to know. (Isn't there is another concurrent thread here where the guy slung a T100 rod due to running low on oil?)

2) The stock oil pressure indicator operates at ~5 PSI. So if your engine did suffer and has only ~15 PSI oil pressure, then the lamp will still go out. But everyone knows that with only 15 PSI the noises will soon start and the big ends will give way.

Personally, I would rather find out in the shop with a simple test, rather than 15 miles from home. Additionally, of all the oil pressure senders I've ever removed, I have no experience with them pulling out the threads. I won't say it can't or doesn't happen, but I find it improbable.

Cheers! beerchug


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RF Whatley
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When I wet sumped in August 2006 it was due to the forward push rods rubbing against the tabs in the tubes, sending frag into the pump and seizing the scavenge side. Replaced the rods, properly installed the tubes (tabs were overly bent inwards), striped and cleaned motor, replaced pistons, rings and con-rod bushings and installed a Norton-type oil filter. She's good now...until the next issue.


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Hi Matthew,

That is interesting, because I installed new pushrods last Wednesday just before my ride at the weekend.

Guys,
I will be taking off the oil pump on Thursday to investigate my problem. I have read Richard's stuff on the GAMBA site re oil pump cleaning and will get hold of an oil pressure gauge to check the working pressure.

What is the drill for checking flow of oil around the system after I have cleaned the oil pump and have the oil pump re-installed and exsposed?

Cheers
Matthew


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Matt #2 -
You have 2 complete oil systems... don't forget this. You check the oil pressure to check the "feed-side" operation. You check for oil return to the tank and lack of "oil wet sumping" to check operation of the "return-side".

The thread I was referring to was not from Matt #1, but believe it or not, a 3rd Matt on yet another T100. Here's the thread... BB.C Thread


:bigt:


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Matthew T100S, I hope it all works out. I'll be joining the Old Fort York CVMG when I return to Toronto June 11th. I'm heading to the Paris Rally and hope to see you there.


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Hi Matthew,

Great see you at Paris. Come and see me at the Old Fort York camp site area.

Hi Guys,

Just took the oil pump off.

When I dimantled it I had a hell of a job getting the return piston out. On removal I notced that there was a nasty burr on the end of the piston and scoring inside the bore.

Also the end of this piston it looked different than the end of the other piston. The end was pitted as if it had been smashing down on some debris.

Anyway I shot the lock off the vault and ordered a Morgo from Walridge.
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Wish me luck.

Cheers
Matthew


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If I was you, I would stick an airline on the bottom of the pickup tube and use it to blow the oil gallery clear anything that might be lodged in the pickup tube to the oil pump mounting face "pipeline".


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Hi Guys,

I just finished up today installing a Morgo oil pump and an oil filter.

Have re-torqued the head, set the valve clearances and strobed the timing.

Sounded great on start up, checked the oil return in the tank and the oil was flooding in.

Next went for a short ride and installed an oil pressure gauge to check the pressure. Only could get a 20 PSI reading.

The oil pressure gauge seems older than me, so will see if I can scrounge another one. What is the PSI supposed to be at 3,000 RPM?

Cheers
Matthew


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Matt -
Sounds like some progress!

• 60-80 PSI with warm 20W50 oil. Frankly, 20 PSI is a concern which I've already addressed. Try another gauge, even if you have to buy it, use and return it.

• Did you replace the crankshaft oil seal?

• Did you clean the OPRV?

• Andrew is correct, with enough debris to scrore the pump, there is going to be trash everywhere in the engine and oil tank. You could score up your brand new pump if not careful. The filter will catch the small fillings, but the larger bits may have to be blown out with compressed air.

• BTW... Did you install a Morgo piston or rotary pump?

I would NOT ride the bike until I knew the pressure was at least 50 PSI. Check that OPRV for blockage. Check that oil seal for hardness and excessive wear.

Let us know. :bigt:


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Hi Guys,

Replaced crankshaft oil seal, and the one for the points (springs in oil seals facing inboard).
I did clean the OPRV.
Installed the Morgo piston pump.

Will get a decent pressure gauge and get back to you all.

Cheers
Matthew


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Sounds like you're going about it in the right manner. We'll keep our fingers crossed on the PSI.

:bigt:


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"springs in oil seals facing inboard"

inboard to the cover, not inboard to the engine, right?
Just double checking as I have found these backwards.


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Hi,

Not you have me worried.

The springs on the seals (points and crankshaft seal) are facing towards the engine. When the cover is taken off you can see the springs.

Did I screw up here? eek

Cheers
Matthew


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yes - 50% right

Pioneer oil seals?

Crankshaft spring away from engine...
Point spring toward engine...

You check the return side of the oil pump with a vacuum guage.

The oil pressure guage, in this instance, caught your secondary mistake, it would not have diagnossed the original problem!

Time to preach: MOST FAILURES, resulting in the return side of the pump stopping and the motor wet sumping, are a result of "swarf" or bits of dirt swept up into the return side of the pump. A LOT OF THESE FAILURES can be traced back to dirt introduced when the sump plug is removed to drain the oil out of the crankcase. Although I strongly advise any one who will listen to NEVER REMOVE THIS PLUG after the motor is built, if you do you MUST BE ANAL and be sure no dirt, either air born or from the area around the plug, isn't swept into the crankcase...

I can't tell you how many times I have asked if the person complaining about wet sumping has JUST open this plug to drain the 150cc of oil, and the answer is YES.

See you at White Rose... God Willing!

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