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Science can't wait until the morning, so I headed to the garage. I mentioned previously that I sacrificed one kickstarter quadrant by grinding away most of the stumpy tooth. It also happens that the quadrant doesn't make contact with the rear edge of the ratchet so inverting it shows the original profile of its teeth. I used these facts to set up the mechanism and photograph it from as far away as a stool would allow, to minimize parallax.

I outlined the teeth to make it easier to see the profile, and the first photograph shows the worst-case relative orientation of the teeth if there weren't a stumpy tooth to first knock the ratchet into position.



As can be seen, because of the rounded profile of gear teeth, as the quadrant rotates its leading full tooth would hit the ratchet tooth nearly head-on over a fairly large range of angles of the ratchet. However, as the next photograph shows, also in the worst-case relative orientation, the ~90° front face of the stumpy tooth only makes grazing contact with the ratchet tooth.



Since I didn't have the ratchet mounted on a spindle to precisely locate it, I screwed up this second photo slightly. The height of the stumpy tooth is such that its tip can't sneak by the tip of a ratchet tooth, which the above photo shows it having done.

Anyway, this shows why there's a stumpy tooth. Unfortunately, the repeated hammering of a 180-lb. rider on the gear teeth takes a toll. If you look closely at the first photograph you'll see the "90°" tip of the stumpy tooth is slightly worn. However, since the ratchet teeth show the most wear, I'll speculate they are made from a softer steel than the quadrant.

Me thinks I get it now.

What would be the reason for not leaving the timed breather just like it is for a non-racebike. ?


Well i like the idea of using the primary side a a plenum and leaving out the drive side seal.
That way you don't have to check primary oil level.
You do need to have a vent somewhere though.

Well that rules out all pre1957 being the same.
The 54 has only 2 tabs, on top of the swingarm.
One on top of the pivot, and one well forward of the sprocket.

That front one of yourn looks very close to the tyre.
Not that it matters, I guess
Are they threaded though - no room for a nut or bolt head.

I was having same trouble with 67 head. Used the black Vinton oring for a 750 on the top and middle or thin white on bottom. No leaks. Set up for about 0.30 crush. Oring fits the top counter bore and tube much better than the white square profiles.

Having looked into it a bit further, I disagree. Note that the stumpy tooth (as opposed to my previous name of half-tooth, which I see from the Vincent thread could apply to a tooth cut in half sideways rather than from the top) is not of constant height.



The leading edge is higher than the trailing edge, and this is significant. I'll need to set up some more photographs to illustrate what I see as going on. More on this mañana.

P


I haven’t gone through this in detail, so at this point I’m in agreement with LoneStar…last post in the thread.

https://www.vincentownersclub.co.uk/threads/kick-start-indexing-problem.11041/

Apologies for polluting a GoldStar thread.

Over and under swing arm mounts. Locations for 4 bolts

Gavin, The area which needed the most cutting away was the top of the timing side,
above the oil splash ring, plus the centre cross piece. The drive side and the timing
side both go onto the barrel individually but when paired and bolted up the drive side
can only have 2 studs fitted or it binds. Not the end of the world, i remember having
a similar problem with one of my old SRM kits, as you say a couple of holes may need
opening by 0.5mm or so.

Hi Denis,
Depends what you mean by "time capsule" ... ... it might have a '57 and '60 frame and engine numbers but your bike is a lo-on-ng way from how Triumph built 'em in 1957 and 1960 ...

It looks typical of bikes that were second-hand in the early 1960's - GB had the 'cafe racer' craze - the standard nacelle, deeply-valanced front fender and rear "bathtub" enclosure were ditched for aftermarket parts. However, I'm somewhat surprised at a lot of John Tickle parts; humble 3TA, the 'cafe-racer-ising' was usually done by an impecunious youth who'd just past his driving test, couldn't afford the hire-purchase payments and insurance on a bigger bike but still wanted the girls to think he had a 650 ... I suspect your bike was later 'rescued' with the later, more-common, headlamp bucket, fenders, sidepanel, air filter, etc. to make a saleable bike to someone who just wanted a 'trad' Triumph twin, wasn't concerned about "matching numbers", "correct" parts, yadda, yadda?

Unless a p.o. recognises the license plate, 'fraid it isn't likely to help you discover any post-sale-new history. However, engine and frame numbers to either the Vintage Motor Cycle Club Library or the Triumph Owners MCC Dating Service will get you at least when the original engines were built, when the motorcycles were built and when/where they were dispatched.

Hth.

Regards,

I think you need to refine your googling technique !!

I have a handy large mirror for such viewing purposes.
Just remember that everything is somewhat reversed ....

Taking a photo or 2 under there can often show detail relevant to the subject at hand also.
(Having an autofocus camera/mode helps)
And everything is the correct way round
And you have a permanent record of other stuff.
As long as you can find where you 'filed' it

Good question.
Made me realise I only have a generic one.

The part number for a slimline is in the Parts List as 21632
No picture. Not shown in the exploded frame diagram.
Dunno what the wideline one is, and might be tricky to even find the PN

Might be more to this than meets the eye, there would appear to be more than a few varieties about.



And AN have a 1958 on chainguard.
https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/shop-details/17316

Fleabay shows enough varieties to sink the proverbial battleship !
Hmmm

Hi,
Imho, better would be to find out what the problem is - actually measure all the relevant components? - and fix that, rather than just throwing handfuls of seals in the problem's general direction and hoping they'll somehow randomly fix the problem?

So you can't go for the thickest seal ...

... also because its o.d. is too large for the recess in the head.

Bear in mind the rule-of-thumb for Triumph p.r.t. leaks, the longer spent assembling the components correctly, the longer they usually stay leak free ...

One potentially-useful spacer is 71-1190, a fibre washer that fits under the "Bottom cup", first used on the T160.

Also check the undersides of any new "Bottom Cups", they should be absolutely flat, no wrinkles in the metal.

Hth.

Regards,

DO YOU SHOUT AT EVERYONE IN YOUR LIFE !!!!

I rest my case ...

Need Triumph disc bike frame. Need undamaged, must have title. Email to —- [email protected]

Thank, John

that's a really tolerant cat. None of ours are THAT agreeable.

I will keep my eyes open for you when I tour Norway in September in the motorhome.

And that is one reason for get togethers like the three state ride. It is always a good time sitting around a campfire swapping lies. Like has been said its not the ride its the people.

I forgot about that.
The bottom bolt comes in from the drive side, so the drive side rear plate and bottom bolt have to be in place before the chain case cover plate.

I hadn't looked closely before now, but the more common 16T Gear G, on the left, is definitely pressed on the mainshaft.



Although it does appear the 14T Gear G is part of the shaft, it wouldn't make sense to manufacture it that way. Looking closer, there isn't room for broached splines as are used to hold the 16T Gear G, but there is what appears to be a line of different colored material at the interface between the 14T gear and shaft.



Looking closer still, it can be seen that the 14T Gear G is brazed to the shaft.

Thanks, Brian--- that makes sense.

Hi Padsdad
The fact that you can read the number convinces me that you have a longrod. This means you need a group 1 piston. However reading the text I am not sure if you are looking for another piston or not. The number on the rod is usually polished off on race engines, but normal owners do not polish that far. As far as I know the actual rods are the same

When you use the 65-2444 cam on a 350 engine you need the 10degree engine pinion to make it work. From memory (not very good anymore) if you hold the pinion up to the light, with the key slot at the top, on a standard pinion there will be a tooth over the key slot.. On the 10degree pinion the slot will be between teeth. If my memory is faulty you will soon know because everyone just rushed out to the garage to check.
If you seek a different piston pm me and I will see if I can help.

I will follow the instruction above to see if I can post some info.
best regards, Pat A,

Irbitskiy Mototsikletski Zavod. Badge is upside down. This bike is M72 russian copy of BMW R71. Info courtesy of my Polish friend!

Nick, check the spigot isnt fouling the drive side bearing housing, John made them extra long ,5 minutes with a chainsaw file on the spigot lower area gives the clearance needed. You may still need to stretch a couple of holes.

yes ,
the 2 Wires from the distributor were not covered ... (post was already too long )
but they are wired the same as any other analog Boyer .
The two wires from the distributor connect to the same/ similar colored wires in the control box
and form the inputs for the timing signaling circuit .
Distributor wires are outputs from a tiny p.m. alternator , that when in motion , produces an AC signal
that "talks" to the b-box ... and provides all of the spark timing signaling inputs .

i used this 6 v. diagram as "the before wiring" ... because it has switch-PIN readouts , which I assume are correct .
( diagram was snagged from the web , BSA Owners Club , and purported to be an improved diagram from 1965 ... resolution is not the best )