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#99768 - 08/31/06 3:47 pm Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
Joined: Feb 2006
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Matthew in TO Offline
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Matthew in TO  Offline
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Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Couldn't find Champion N4 plugs per the manual, and when I removed the old plugs they were Champion N3C. So, I bought and installed new N3C. Is this alright for my 1969 T100S motor?


1970 Triumph T100S (1969 T100S motor)
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#99769 - 08/31/06 5:19 pm Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 429
gs750 Offline
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gs750  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 429
New York
N3's are a colder plug, probably better for around town riding.

If you can get them more easily many, including me, prefer NGK B7ES or B8ES plugs. The 8's would be the equivalent of an N3

NGK Higher the number = colder plug

Champion Lower the number = colder plug


1971 Triumph T100C
1974 Honda XL350
1982 Suzuki GS750T
2000 Honda VFR800FI
#99770 - 08/31/06 6:21 pm Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 258
dan charles tr6r Offline
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dan charles tr6r  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 258
half moon bay, ca
great question matthew. I would also like to ask if manufactuer specs are the way to go , or does it all depend on style of riding style,altitude,weight,etc.?where can we get good literature on this matter so we can get opptimal preformance for are machines? thank you. Dan

#99771 - 08/31/06 7:24 pm Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
Joined: May 2006
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JTsmks Offline
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JTsmks  Offline
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Posts: 178
Orange Park Florida
I've said it before in many colorful ways now I'm going to just say it...Champion plugs stink as a sparking device for an engine, unless your going for concourse (sp?) points are you just like a semi smooth idle, run them, otherwise switch to NGK's or Denso's. My plug wires may say Champion on the boots but I'll tell you I'm running Denso's under them. As always just my opinion based on experiance. YMMV laugh


"All parts falling off this bike are of the finest British craftsmanship"
#99772 - 08/31/06 7:52 pm Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,964
John Healy Online content
John Healy  Online Content



Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,964
Boston, Massachusetts
JTsmks:

Respectively disagree...


#99773 - 08/31/06 10:09 pm Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
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JTsmks Offline
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JTsmks  Offline
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 178
Orange Park Florida
John, thats fine by me ...but...as I've stated before in this forum me and a good friend and British Bike mech from a long time gone sat one day and went through a pot of coffee and switched between Chumps, NGK's and Denso's and allowed the bike to fully cool by a couple hours between each run. The differance was VERY noticable between each set of plug in the same heat range. Idle quality was most noticable as well as general throttle response. I for one am not a fan of Champions but highly endorse NGK and really like Denso for my Brit Bike and MG. I know a few people that swear by Champs but know even more who swear at them laugh Cheers! beerchug


"All parts falling off this bike are of the finest British craftsmanship"
#99774 - 08/31/06 10:26 pm Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 47
cb Offline
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cb  Offline
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Posts: 47
barrie ont
I am running NGK8ES in my 70 t100s and seems to be running good, plugs have a nice tan color on them

#99775 - 08/31/06 11:18 pm Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,964
John Healy Online content
John Healy  Online Content



Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,964
Boston, Massachusetts
Jt
Did it cross your mind that you might have been running the wrong grade plug for your set up and conditions? The plug cross-over charts from one plug manufacturer to another are not that close.

GS750
Going from a N3 to a B7ES is not an exact heat range swap for all applications. And an NGK 8 is not equivelent to a N3.

http://ngkaz.home.att.net/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

click on NGK cross reference matrix and you will get an Excell spread sheet of NGK cross references.

Note that the B7ES can be crossed to an Champion N3 or N4 depending on application.

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinfo/spark_plugs/techtips.asp?nav=31000&country=US

Now Florida is subject to a lot of weather fronts... did the barometric pressure change or temperature change when you did this test? Year after year I have experienced dramtic temperature and barometric changes from the morning to the afternoon at Daytona.

As a general rule a Triumph 650 will work better when run in city conditions if fitted with an N4, while they often love N3 on the highway. If I was going to fit a Champion plug to a 650 for general use I would select a N4 (we are at sea level and seldom get 90 degree weather). But ambient air temperature, elevation, engine conditions, state of tune, and riding style can all effect the plug YOU are happy with.

I to believe the proper NGK is also a good plug, but install the wrong heat range and they too can be just as problematic. This discussion is based upon similar experiences as the Mikuni vs AMAL... If you how to work the bits both are good carburetors.

The object with any plug is to have the porcelian tip above 850 degress F at idle, but below 1550 degrees F when the throttle is wide open. If the plug is below 850 degrees F at idle (Champion, NGK, Nippodenso, or what have you) it will be prone to foul causing the rough idle described else. If the porcelian exceeds 1550 degrees F at full throttle parts will start to melt or the plug electrode will begin to glow eventionaly causing catastrophic detonation.

Also the temperature of the electrode is important and can lead to catastrophic failure. The electrode is cooled by the plug body. If the body of the plug extends past the cylinder head and is located in the combustion chamber the electrode will loose some of its ability to cool itself.

Simply changing to another heat range Champion plug could easily have produced the same results as changing to a different brand... Even though there is a lot of hype about spark plugs it isn't magic.


#99776 - 09/01/06 12:00 am Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
Joined: Aug 2005
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Steve in Tulsa Offline
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Steve in Tulsa  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,211
Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
I agree with John on this one. The NGK cross reference does quote one plug for different applications.
I think the Denso plug works well. It may be a closer approximation the the Champion.
But I have also found the NGKs don't last as long.
Certainly not as long as they did years ago.
Maybe it's the fuel ...who knows.
It maybe my riding style or the atmosphere ( don't like the weather in Oklahoma? wait around a few hours ).
But I also found that true in New Mexico and coastal Calif..
I do prefer the Champions
just my 2c


Steve in Tulsa
#99777 - 09/01/06 1:49 am Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
Joined: May 2006
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JTsmks Offline
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JTsmks  Offline
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Posts: 178
Orange Park Florida
Who said anything about going from an N3 to a B7ES? I'm not even going to get into my background or my "skill" level. I'll stick with the Denso's and if you like Champions, run'em. I do not like them in anything, I also don't care for autolite plugs either but thats a whole differnt can of worms. I'll leave this thread be..Cheers!


"All parts falling off this bike are of the finest British craftsmanship"
#99778 - 09/01/06 2:11 am Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
Joined: Feb 2006
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Matthew in TO Offline
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Matthew in TO  Offline
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Toronto, Ontario, Canada
My 500cc T100S loves those new plugs. Yesterday she went like a rocket for 200 miles non-stop.


1970 Triumph T100S (1969 T100S motor)
#99779 - 09/01/06 10:26 pm Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,964
John Healy Online content
John Healy  Online Content



Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,964
Boston, Massachusetts
I'll leave this thread be..Cheers!

Cool.. I like blonds, big dogs and Dodge cars. Now, I bet there are people out there that like Red heads, cats, and Fords... This all comes under different strokes for different strokes.

Oh, I have over 100,000 miles on my last set of Chumps in my Dodge. But all this is anecdotal...


#99780 - 09/01/06 10:38 pm Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
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BrianFromOz Offline
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BrianFromOz  Offline
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Posts: 706
NSW Australia
I like women with hair,snakes,and drive a jap car and if the bike went better with my finger in the plug hole (as opposed to other places)then so be it...
:p laugh bigt beerchug


"What are you rebelling against?
What have you got?"

77 T140V

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#99781 - 09/02/06 12:26 am Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 178
JTsmks Offline
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JTsmks  Offline
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Posts: 178
Orange Park Florida
Just tried to share my insight on plugs and I get personally attacked, nice job moderating there John, you da man. Oz, don't know what I did to you but apparently it's fun down under to jump on folks when others are doing the kicking? Get over yourselves. I've said it before and I'll say it again, this BBS does a good job with some good people too bad there are those that feel belittling people is the way to go. I've managed 25+ years in the Brit Bike world without the knowledge of this BBS and will trudge along just fine without it. Way to welcome folks into the fold. Matthew, glad the Champ's are working for you, try the NGK or Denso's and see if they work better or not. Couldn't hurt.


"All parts falling off this bike are of the finest British craftsmanship"
#99782 - 09/02/06 12:57 am Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 706
BrianFromOz Offline
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BrianFromOz  Offline
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Posts: 706
NSW Australia
ummmm....its called aussie humour...i wasnt personally attacking anyone....i was making a general comment on the fact that we are all different with different opinions...its wat makes the world go round...i respect everyones opinion on anything and appreciate peoples knowledge on things especially in this forum...even to the point of agreeing to disagree.....my apologys if it offended you as that was far from being my intention.... 2c


"What are you rebelling against?
What have you got?"

77 T140V

Is Your Bike Here?
MembersBikesBritBikeForum
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#99783 - 09/02/06 3:11 am Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 99
Transgarp Online content
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Transgarp  Online Content
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 99
Quebec, Canada
For my T120RC I prefer twinplug by cylinder with NGK CR7EIX Iridium

#99784 - 09/02/06 5:15 am Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 461
bonnie john Offline
BritBike Forum member
bonnie john  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 461
sunshine coast, queensland, au...
many years ago, i used N3s in my bonnie and N4s in my commando and x75

they invariably started to miss in a couple of thousand miles

they were made in nz, changed to NGK, end of my probs

not sure if the lead content of the fuel back affected them or what, but i'm more than happy to not use champions again

btw, on my 3rd set of ngk's in my hd, 96,000 kilometers, don't think one has ever been replaced from going bad


SPEED KILLS
do not exceed 250mg ...
#99785 - 09/02/06 12:14 pm Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,211
Steve in Tulsa Offline
BritBike Forum member
Steve in Tulsa  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,211
Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Quote:
Just tried to share my insight on plugs and I get personally attacked,
JT, ease up a bit. It's all good humor.
Mr Healy gave me the euro specs for my MKIIs.
Didn't work well. Another member did it and it worked great. That's what it's about.
It still amazes me how we all have a Triumph, some off us the same model, and they are all different.
We have all had our hand on it, we tuned them , modify them, had too many pints in one hand and a feeler guage in the other.

Quote:
if the bike went better with my finger in the plug hole (as opposed to other places)then so be it...
What other places? A crocks bum? eek
What do you guys do down there? laughing

Thank God the heat on the praire has broken.
Even the horses have relaxed.


Steve in Tulsa
#99786 - 09/02/06 12:47 pm Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,348
BONZO R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
BONZO R.I.P.  Offline
In Remembrance

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,348
Michigan, USA
I'm with JT , I've never had much luck with Champion plugs in my bikes but I will use them in the old pickup truck . I have always had better luck with the NGK plugs . I have never tried the denso plugs , but I have also had good results from the Bosch plug . It may be me , but this has been consistent with BSA, triumph , H-D , and BMW (never tried the NGK in BMW though, gonna have to try them )

FWIW-BONZO

#99787 - 09/02/06 7:08 pm Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 209
tombeau Offline
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tombeau  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 209
Finland
My Starfire preferred NGK,
But the A10 always killed NGKs and loves Champions
...but hey whatever lights your fuel!
Cheers,
Tombeau

#99788 - 11/02/06 3:42 pm Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 208
relicduke Offline
BritBike Forum
relicduke  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 208
Nova Scotia
I've tried all the "popular" brands of plugs in my Bonnies {all with points, no battery} and have found AC r42xls to be a superior plug. champion ain't worth screwing in a head


poverty is the mother of invention
#99789 - 11/02/06 3:56 pm Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 662
Riff_Raff Offline
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Riff_Raff  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 662
Arizona Territory
Autolite 4055's in my 650's....Never once been a problem. YMMV....

Edit: (Now this signature thing on the other hand....LMAO!)


"Factory Stock Is A Suggestion Only"
#99790 - 11/02/06 4:37 pm Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 237
sloppyoil Offline
BritBike Forum member
sloppyoil  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 237
Monclova
JTsmks
Quit whining when someone does not believe your opinion is gospel. Heat range makes a big difference. All plugs reccomended by different manufactuers are not what the factory tested with originally. Yes research and development teams test and apply certain plugs to engines so that they work, but the plugs are tested and recommended to a large application of different engines. Look at two side by side or cut one open and measure. Some may say oh, that little bit of difference will make no difference at all run em. But if I were to tell you set your valves four thousands tighter or loose would that make a difference?

#99791 - 11/02/06 5:14 pm Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,108
RF Whatley Online content
BritBike Forum member
RF Whatley  Online Content
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,108
North Georgia, USA
I would like to respectfully disagree with the whole lot of you. eek

Just as soon as I wear out the 20 year old set of Champion N4's in my 1966 6T, I intend to get a REALLY good set of "ignition candles"... KLG FE80.

laughing


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA

"Shop Boy" at Rodi British Bikes
#99792 - 11/02/06 6:18 pm Re: Champion N3 Plugs okay?  
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 411
tomterrific Offline
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tomterrific  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 411
Columbus, Ohio, 1978 T140E
I have a 1978 T140E. The manual says N3 and I always fould those. Hard starting after a couple of rides. I tried NGK B8ES and these sucked too. Hard starting because they fouled. The bike ran fine after it started but I kept thinking I must have the jetting too rich somewhere or the ignition was horribly weak. On a whim I tried N4 and B7ES and both of these were better but eventually would foul. I read an old article by Gordon Jennings and he said manufacturers plugs suggestions were too cold. John Healy posted the 1979- T140E used an N5. I now have N5s in the Triumph and I went up in heat range in another bike to NGK BP6ES. Both these points bikes start like I have just installed new plugs everytime because the plugs burn clean.

HEAT RANGE

I found Champions with miscut threads back in the 70's and I stopped using them. I bought N5 Champions just recently as I thought the quality must be better by now. The N5s in the Triumph are fine but I ordered N9YCs for another bike and the threads were very rough. I rejected the Champions and bought NGKs.

Tom Graham

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