Something rings a bell when I had the Triton converted to a 5 speed. Phil Pick of Triple Cycles noted there was a problem with the 3rd gear to do with the layshaft 2nd gear bush. IIRC, he drifted the bush out, cut a notch in the bush housing (non flange end) on the gear with a Dremel, drifted the bush back in, then burnished the bush into the notch. It was a few years ago, but I think it was to do with stopping the bush moving in the gear, and standing 3rd off.
Just for kicks and grins check the detent spring tension first .This is under the transmission next to the drain plug. If it is working smooth and the spring is good take the kick cover off. Then look at the nut that holds the mainshaft tight against the bearing via the kick start gears. it needs to be tight. They are bad about loosing up. If that is functoning well, then remove the shift plate (cam plate)and check for wear. It is possible it was a bad day at Coventry when it was indexed in the milling machine. It just may be a collection of slightly missed the marks on all the components of third gear, fork,gears,plate combo. Your service mauual will tell you how to do all of this. If I can do it anyone can.
Originally posted by bsadb: Just for kicks and grins check the detent spring tension first. This is under the transmission next to the drain plug.
Rich - They stopped using the setup mentioned above in 1970 or 71. Your bike won't have this feature. Don't even bother looking.
The symptom doesn't sound familiar to me, but if you do go in it would be worth the couple of extra bucks to replace the 4 shifter springs in the outer cover as insurance. Or at least compare their condition and length to new springs.
When Triumph came out with the oil-in-frame in 1971, they also stopped using the index plunger/spring/housing system from underneath the cases. They went to a leaf spring type device that was bolted to the inner gearbox cover. However, when they started making the 750cc engines in 1973 (or after the strike at Meriden) Triumph went back to the plunger type gearbox detent system. This should be what you have in your T140V.
From your description, it sounds as if you are hitting a false neutral when shifting from 2nd to 3rd under the conditions you described. This happens when the cam plate actually goes past the notch. I would recommend you replace the detent spring and check the end of the plunger to make sure it is not too "rounded". Also check the cam plate. Sometimes the "edge" of the cam plate can have some rough surfaces or indentations. When I encounter this, I use a Dremel tool to smooth the edge which allows the cam plate to slide easier over the plunger and drop into the gear notches better (believe it or not). In any event, the plunger is accessable from under the gearbox so the only hassel is draining and refilling the gearbox oil. This is an easy and low cost way to start finding the problem. Best of luck to you.
Re: T-140V shifting question#89136 03/15/0612:41 am03/15/0612:41 am
I have a 77 t140 and it does 'EXACTLY' the same thing!!! I read your post and thought I had written it for a minute!!
I will try the advice as well and let you know what I find. I spent time chasing down some shell spirax ep 90, its shell and its old so it must be good right? well I drained, filled, rode a bit, drained, filled, rode a bit and it still does the same thing!! ps. if you have the pushin pipes I used the seal kit from shropshire classics and it worked great!
Re: T-140V shifting question#89138 03/15/063:11 am03/15/063:11 am
I agree with Mike as we all know of the false nuetral positions on the five speed gear box camplate. The major cause of this malady is in fact a weak plunger spring. And as he stated a fairly easy fix. For those afflicted with the detent leaf on the '71 thru '73 gear boxes, it would be a major improvement to install a heavy duty spring, availible from many suppliers for around $8.00 dollars. Indexing these gear boxes can be a little tricky as most indexing instructions are for plunger type springs and they are different. I believe Mr. Healy touched on this in an earlier post. Also earlier posted , the Glenns manual of '73 is about the only illustrated instruction that covers indexing the leaf detent.
,_o _ -\_<, (*)/'(*)
Re: T-140V shifting question#89139 03/15/063:35 am03/15/063:35 am
This is indeed a quirk on T-140V late model machines. I did a road call once when the customer thought he blew up his gear box only to find it was stuck in a false nuetral. Then again I hooked up my trailer once to go get him for a blown fuse. Try the suggested remidies noted here. Once repaired you have many miles ahead before this issue needs further attention. Hope this all was of assistance.
An old Triumph service bulliten addressed the leaf spring tension issue. It in effect said to enlarge the bolt holes to an oblong shape so that the spring could be bolted back onto the inner trans cover in a manner that put more tension on the spring enabling it to engage the cam plate more securely. I did this to my 71 and must say that while it has helped with my false neutral problems, I have to wonder if I have weakened the little bugger. The heavy duty spring sounds like a better option. If you don't mind, J RGS, who supplies said item?
You can also install the plunger detent spring system in the 71/72 models, but you need to have the cases split. Triumph cast the boss on the bottom of the gearbox case and you simply need to purchase the housing/plunger/spring setup. I did this on my 1972 TR6R during a bottom end rebuild.
Before I installed the plunger, I did have to replace the leaf spring. I was having trouble shifting (false neutrals all over the place) and found the leaf spring had actually worn a "slot" in it where it engaged the cam plate. At the time, I did not need to do a bottom end job so I simply replaced the spring.
I have a factory index tool for the five speed that is spot on every time with no guess work.Put it in first gear install tool and assemble.one of the good factory tools. and yes all the plunger parts will come out the bottom hole but you cant see the cam plate.
Tim Joyce sponsors D@D cycles Works shocks Glass from the past
The plunger itself is almost an inch long and is a hollow cylinder that the spring fits up into. The plunger, when depresed, retracts into the housing. The whole assembly drops straight without danger of leaving the plunger inside.
By the way, I attended a seminar that John Healy gave at Mid-Ohio last year and one of the items he passed around was an "after market" cam plate which was improperly machined. The neutral notch was between 3rd and 4th gear, not between 1st and 2nd gear!
Originally posted by RF Whatley: ...if you do go in it would be worth the couple of extra bucks to replace the 4 shifter springs in the outer cover as insurance. Or at least compare their condition and length to new springs.
With the addition of a camplate plunger, you would also need to add the plunger spring to your list of coils springs to check the length and possibly replace.
We were seeing 1/8" shrinkage back in the early 70's on 4-5 year old machines. No telling how much length (and compressive force) you've lost in 30 years!
The leaf spring was one of those cost-cutting ideas that came over from BSA. Glad they dumped it and went back to what worked. I've seen 1972 machines drilled to add the plunger back. The boss on the bottom of the case was never removed. The L-to-R distance over from the machined inner g/b cover face was a nice 'round' number like 1.50" or 2.50", not something strange. The front-to-back distance was eye-balled to hit the center of the shifter cam face. I second the vote to only attempt this during an engine rebuild when you can chuck the case in a drill press or mill. Very ticklish, but worth the effort.
Hello T140V-Rich and jonienglish, You are not alone with the 3rd gear problem and as you could appreciate I have been following this thread with great interest as my 76 T140V has had this problem for some time and I was dreading pulling the gearbox apart.
I hope my problem is as easy as replacing the plunger spring!
Thanks for all the relevant advice.
Cheers from Australia, ozziebsa
Re: T-140V shifting question#89155 05/16/062:34 am05/16/062:34 am