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'64 500 trans. questions #83145
09/08/05 8:22 pm
09/08/05 8:22 pm
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 17
Louisville KY
D
DougM Offline OP
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DougM  Offline OP
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I got my trans parts all back in order with some new parts for the kicker. Any hints on re-assembly?
I have done a pre assembly without gaskets to make sure everything shifts ok when I install the gears and inner cover.
I have had some problems
First, it is a pain to get the assembled gears in. Is there a simple solution or trick to it. Both Haynes and Clymer simply say to slide it in and move it until it goes in.????Unfortunately, it has not been quite that easy. I have managed to get them in a couple times only to have the trans shift through only 3 of the 4 gears or not shift at all. Is it typical of a "dry" gearbox to not shift easily when installed. When uninstalled, I can move it through all the gears easily. I don't want to bolt everything back up only to have shifting problems, so I want to make sure that beforehand, it will go through the gears.

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Re: '64 500 trans. questions #83146
09/09/05 2:19 am
09/09/05 2:19 am
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,263
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
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RF Whatley  Offline
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Yes, you'll have to rock the rear wheel to get it to shift. The g/b counts on the mainshaft spinning to operate. Plus they'll be 90W in there to smooth things out.

Don't forget to replace the cam plate plunger spring, or at least check its length against a new spring. And if you didn't already, replace the k/s pawl. Cheap insurance.

bigt


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: '64 500 trans. questions #83147
09/09/05 4:04 am
09/09/05 4:04 am
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Arizona Territory
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Riff_Raff Offline
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Re-installing the tranny can be an exercise in frustration, so don't feel alone.

You should be able to test-shift the gears in a "dry" gearbox. If the 500cc's are similar to the 650cc's, you'll need to re-index the gears in order to find all gears when test-shifting. Please refer to your manual on the proper way to do this for your bike. On the 650cc's, the tranny is re-installed with the camplate set in the "neutral" position. Inner gearbox cover is then put on using 2 bolts to temporarily hold it in place. The camplate quadrant of the inner gearbox cover has to mesh with the EXACT tooth on the side of the camplate in order to achieve the proper indexing. If even ONE tooth off, the tranny won't shift properly. Once you've gotten the camplate quadrant/camplate properly lined up (it's not unusual to have to make several attempts), re-install outer gearbox cover & test-shift. If you're finding all the gears, remove outer gearbox cover, button up the inner gearbox cover & then the outer gearbox cover, add gearbox oil & you should be good to go.

(Please note: If the procedure for the 500cc's in different, someone PLEASE correct me here so's Doug can move forward with the right info...Thanx)


"Factory Stock Is A Suggestion Only"
Re: '64 500 trans. questions #83148
09/15/05 11:44 am
09/15/05 11:44 am
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 17
Louisville KY
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DougM Offline OP
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DougM  Offline OP
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Louisville KY
The suggestions have made it easier. Looks like I will try the complete re-assembly this weekend.
One question, what are the torqu values for all of the inner and outer trans cover bolts. My Haynes and Clymer do not mention them.
Also, do you reccommend using some sealant on both inner and outer gaskets? The manuals say to use sealant, but they don't describe using a pre cut gasket.

Re: '64 500 trans. questions #83149
09/15/05 2:50 pm
09/15/05 2:50 pm
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Arizona Territory
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Riff_Raff Offline
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Doug, We just button up both inner & outer gearbox covers good 'n snug, tightening the respective nuts 'n bolts a little at a time in an alternating pattern around each cover (haven't seen any torque specs for these, either)

Some say that sealants aren't needed with the newer gasket material, but I've found that to not always be the case & would recommend using sealant (YamaBond, HondaBond, ThreeBond, etc.) on both inner & outer cover gaskets.

Important question: Do you have a manual for your 500cc ? Reason I ask is that when indexing the gears, on the 650cc 4 spd. the camplate quadrant must be held in position using an imaginary horizontal line that runs straight thru from center of end of mainshaft, thru center of middle "step" on camplate quadrant (the side facing out) & thru the center of the bush for the shifting mechanism. This insures that the teeth will mesh on the "exact" location necessary for indexing & even still it may take several attempts. On a 650cc 5 spd., the imaginary line runs thru a different "line" on the camplate quadrant, so I'm assuming the 500cc will have it's own imaginary line that's needed.

I've got one old manual that includes some info for the 500cc's, so if you don't have the manual, I might be able to find the right position for your camplate quadrant while offerring the inner gearbox cover to the gearbox or someone else might know this position immediately & offer it for you ?

Another thing to keep in mind is the thrust washer on the gearbox side end as that little sucker can try to fall off during this assembly. You can put some grease on the thrust washer to help to hold it in place. And again, please keep in mind that I've never owned or worked on a 500cc, so if I've offerred any info that doesn't jive with this assembly, am trusting that someone will correct me for your sake. wink


"Factory Stock Is A Suggestion Only"
Re: '64 500 trans. questions #83150
09/15/05 3:24 pm
09/15/05 3:24 pm
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 231
Ohio's South Coast - where men...
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noneya Offline
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As far as gasket sealers. I prefer & use spray copper gasket for covers, rocker boxes & head gasket. Just spray a coat on the gasket itself. Seals great, comes apart great.No leak, no excess mess.
wink


1970 TR6R ---->
TRIUMPH CHOPPERS 4EVER!
-59-
FTW/WTF --->
*************
"BEAUTIFY AMERICA"
Ban POSERS on bikes!
**************
JUST SAY NO
TO
BAAAAAAAAAAA!
Re: '64 500 trans. questions #83151
09/15/05 3:35 pm
09/15/05 3:35 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,839
British Columbia
hh Offline
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Gaskets? What gaskets? Gaskets aren't specified for the gearbox on a unit T100 and they'll likely cause there to be too much endfloat.

There's no indexing required on a T100, just set the camplate so it doesn't foul the case as it's going in and wiggle it in there while wiggling the shifter a little bit and it usually goes right in. The only things to worry about are the thrust washer falling off its locating peg, which a little grease will prevent, and possibly the plunger popping out and going sideways. If you've had jumping out of gear problems due to high power output, a ball bearing behind the plunger helps.

If your camplate doesn't have the stiffening plate that keeps the cam slots from expanding, it's probably worth upgrading to the new one. It also has an improved plunger track shape.


"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
Re: '64 500 trans. questions #83152
09/15/05 5:14 pm
09/15/05 5:14 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,263
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
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RF Whatley  Offline
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North Georgia, USA
Doug -
You can safely use gaskets or sealers. I prefer gaskets myself since you often have to remove the inner cover several times to get the gear timing correct.

A good gasket needs no help. If you have a gasket that needs help, then you don't have a good gasket. However, gaskets may "sweat" and collect some dust on a long trip where a sealer will be dead tight.

Your choice.

bigt


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: '64 500 trans. questions #83153
09/15/05 5:22 pm
09/15/05 5:22 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,839
British Columbia
hh Offline
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Redneck, I have to disagree about gear timing. There isn't any on a T100. Just shove it in and it works.


"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
Re: '64 500 trans. questions #83154
09/15/05 7:53 pm
09/15/05 7:53 pm
Joined: Nov 2004
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Ohio's South Coast - where men...
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noneya Offline
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AS I prefer a "big bike", I'm not knowing on a 500. (my little sister had one once though, he he he)

BUT seriously---> are you trying to tell me "hh" that a 500 does not use gaskets on the covers or cases????????
Must be a very sweet mill job & finish on these type triumph meeting surfaces to not use gaskets or such!
:p


1970 TR6R ---->
TRIUMPH CHOPPERS 4EVER!
-59-
FTW/WTF --->
*************
"BEAUTIFY AMERICA"
Ban POSERS on bikes!
**************
JUST SAY NO
TO
BAAAAAAAAAAA!
Re: '64 500 trans. questions #83155
09/15/05 9:02 pm
09/15/05 9:02 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,839
British Columbia
hh Offline
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hh  Offline
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Yes, I am trying to tell you that, look in the parts books, but you don't think it won't leak without copious quantities of goo do you?


"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
Re: '64 500 trans. questions #83156
09/15/05 9:40 pm
09/15/05 9:40 pm
Joined: Nov 2004
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noneya Offline
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Hmmmm---->
Like I said (and not to be a wisearse) I'm not a T100 (500cc) fan or ever really did much to one. So I'm FAR FROM THE EXPERT---->
But it is interesting that you can find everyone selling gaskets for these bikes--->
confused
http://raskcycle.com/parts/gaskets2.html#TRIUMPH%20500%20TWIN%20GASKETS

I do not see an "inner trans gasket" (is this what you mean???) but I see the outer and others.
wink

So, I'm thinking maybe like Redneck says, you can use them thar gaskets or not?

But it does appear they make & sell them.

:rolleyes:


And on a side note--->
Here is a very interesting site with nice tips & pics (yes the tranny is it)--->

http://204.29.80.50/restore/thomas/


1970 TR6R ---->
TRIUMPH CHOPPERS 4EVER!
-59-
FTW/WTF --->
*************
"BEAUTIFY AMERICA"
Ban POSERS on bikes!
**************
JUST SAY NO
TO
BAAAAAAAAAAA!
Re: '64 500 trans. questions #83157
09/15/05 9:52 pm
09/15/05 9:52 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,839
British Columbia
hh Offline
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hh  Offline
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Posts: 1,839
British Columbia
They make all kinds of things that have no use, like luxury SUVs, UJMs, bad music etc., yet people buy those too. I don't think Triumph ever made a T100 gearbox gasket or I'd expect to find it in the parts books.


"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
Re: '64 500 trans. questions #83158
09/15/05 10:09 pm
09/15/05 10:09 pm
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 231
Ohio's South Coast - where men...
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noneya Offline
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Hey man,
You are a fun guy to chat with, lol.
And in my opinion----->
all SUV's are crap! And housewives do not need them to drive 1/2 mile to get groceries!Joe Slick don't need one to drive to the office.If ya want a 4wheel drive & need one, buy a real one (land rover, scout, CJ7 or a SUBARU!!! come to mind).And they don't need motorsickles either. The gall darn rascals!!!

But blame yuppie's for that and most of the other "yucky" things you mention. I personally just say NO and resist the urge (what urge?) to follow any flock.

But to get back to the gasket question.........

But I personally would use a gasket if I could unless it would cause some problem. (I can't see that on a cover and such but MAYBE a tranny inner section can't use a gasket)
I'm thinking there is a reason they do not list an inner gasket. Most likely what you say about end float???

Man is not born with wings yet he flies!

Man does not have two wheels in his stock parts list, yet he rolls on two such things!
wink

NOW--->

All that sickening SUV talk got me feeling the urge to donate $$$$ to "Earth First" now, LOL!

BTW---> I'm truely interested in learning & just trying to do that.
Heck, I might wake up & want a girls bike and then I'll know how to fix it!
:p
(kidding, just kidding--- about the girls bike!!!!!)


1970 TR6R ---->
TRIUMPH CHOPPERS 4EVER!
-59-
FTW/WTF --->
*************
"BEAUTIFY AMERICA"
Ban POSERS on bikes!
**************
JUST SAY NO
TO
BAAAAAAAAAAA!
Re: '64 500 trans. questions #83159
09/16/05 12:44 am
09/16/05 12:44 am
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 662
Arizona Territory
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Riff_Raff Offline
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hh, Thank you, Thank You, THANK YOU for stepping in & offerring that input. I just now got back from checking out an old manual & man, I was WAY off base with the indexing, LOL!

manual shows no gasket for the mating surface between inner gearbox cover & case, but says to use gasket cement.

Doug, Please forget all that info about the "imaginary line" stuff, it doesn't apply with your 500cc. The camplate quadrant on a 650cc goes thru the inner gearbox cover standing "sideways" so to speak, on yours the gear selector camplate runs thru the inner gearbox cover laying "flat" & resting above the gear cluster. With gear cluster assembled, "position camplate so the selector fork rollers are midway along the camplate grooves" & slide the whole deal into the gearbox, just as hh said. Holding the inner gearbox cover in place, you should be able to "test-shift" by manually moving the part of the camplate facing you on the outside to insure that it moves all the way in both directions. "If either of the rollers won't go all the way, the selector forks will have to be removed & their positions exchanged".

Whew! LOL!

Crazyhorse, What's this about "big bikes" ? One of the coolest Triumph choppers I've ever seen was a 500cc & after rapping with him, he headed out of the parking lot & that chop took off like a shot! LOL!!!!!! (No kidding tho', it hauled)


"Factory Stock Is A Suggestion Only"
Re: '64 500 trans. questions #83160
09/16/05 11:09 am
09/16/05 11:09 am
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,115
Kansas
kboyd Offline
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I can't say much about 650's because I never rode one yet, only the 500. You may be surprised by there little 500's though, Crazyhorse. Lot of fun when you keep the rpm's up!

As for big bikes? If you want a tractor, buy a John Deere! laughing Just kidding, but the only big bike I ever had wanted to kill me, and almost did!

As for the tranny on my 500, I went gasketless on the inner cover and used a gasket from the kit on my outer cover. By coating it with hi-temp silicone I've been able to use it over and over while getting my mainshaft issues sorted out...

Kyle


Kyle#44x

1969 T100R Daytona
1979 Powroll Honda XR250 "Dallas Baker" flattracker
1975 XL350 project bike
Re: '64 500 trans. questions #83161
09/16/05 12:54 pm
09/16/05 12:54 pm
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 231
Ohio's South Coast - where men...
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noneya Offline
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noneya  Offline
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Man, OH man are you guys easy!!! wink

I only wish the fish would hit that easy when I go to the river. laughing

John Deere??? Is that what they call a Harley!!! LOL! The Yuppies can have them!

See no EVO
Hear no EVO
Ride no EVO
laughing


1970 TR6R ---->
TRIUMPH CHOPPERS 4EVER!
-59-
FTW/WTF --->
*************
"BEAUTIFY AMERICA"
Ban POSERS on bikes!
**************
JUST SAY NO
TO
BAAAAAAAAAAA!

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