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It Blew UP #82405
08/21/05 1:47 pm
08/21/05 1:47 pm
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 89
Port Orange FL
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billbrit Offline OP
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billbrit  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 89
Port Orange FL
I went out for my little test ride this morning.
Ran like an F-16 althought it was a little surging
above 70% throttle (2.0 cutaway,P-4/6DH2 clip#3,
25 pilot.1.0 air,220 main,BR8ES at .030).
Ran so fast the tires started to pick up the
Florida beach sand and made my right leg tingle.
What a nice feeling. I think I'll slow down and try
that again I thought. Even more tingle. But why
only my right leg. Observation: these were brown
tingles that were sticking and getting bigger.
Must be them Florida bugs. Smoke now coming up
from the right side---must be the bugs cooking.
It's now putting out more oil than Texas!!
Still running rather well chap.At home the observations: Oil from the front of the cylinders
to the back of the muffler,most consentrated at
the front of the right barrel between the top of
the barrel and the cylinder head ( I think that
they usually put a gasket or something in there).
Right piston top a little wet ( but could be from
trickle down from taking out the plug). Hand
cranks nicely, no bad noises, valves still going in and out. Any thoughts on what this may be
( besides the color of the bike and the elevation
differential between my garage and the street )?

Bill


1968 BSA
1979 Triumph
1994 Ducati Monster
2004 Harley Low Rider
2006 Triumph Speed Triple on order
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Re: It Blew UP #82406
08/21/05 2:36 pm
08/21/05 2:36 pm
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 662
Arizona Territory
R
Riff_Raff Offline
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Riff_Raff  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 662
Arizona Territory
When you say "test ride", do you mean that this is a fresh rebuild ?

As a starting point, please check all the torques on the top-end, especially the head bolts, and do a compression check of both cylinders. The wetness on the right piston with the majority of leaking oil from that side obviously needs to be checked out closer. Let's hope it's just under-torqued head bolts & not a bad piston ring situation.


"Factory Stock Is A Suggestion Only"
Re: It Blew UP #82407
08/21/05 3:19 pm
08/21/05 3:19 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,138
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
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RF Whatley  Offline
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Posts: 11,138
North Georgia, USA
Let's see.... if I remember correctly you have a double-side valved, inverted 5 cylinder, 1939 Knutteson, with auto kerosene injection shifter system, correct?

:rolleyes:


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA

"Shop Boy" at Rodi British Bikes
Re: It Blew UP #82408
08/21/05 3:35 pm
08/21/05 3:35 pm
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 89
Port Orange FL
B
billbrit Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 89
Port Orange FL
Hey Riff Raff,
I have only put 20 miles on this Street Tracker. I was told it had 6000miles on it when it
was converted. The inside of the valve cover shows
" built by Wayne Zebrowski". Anyway , in your opinion I should retorque the head bolts ,
check compression and go for a ride? Any thoughts
on the Torque settings for this 10 bolt T140D
other than what I can find in the manual?


1968 BSA
1979 Triumph
1994 Ducati Monster
2004 Harley Low Rider
2006 Triumph Speed Triple on order
Re: It Blew UP #82409
08/21/05 3:39 pm
08/21/05 3:39 pm
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 89
Port Orange FL
B
billbrit Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 89
Port Orange FL
Redneck,( now the ARTIST ),

You are mostly correct. However, it has rotory
valves and those hard to replace oval pistons!!


1968 BSA
1979 Triumph
1994 Ducati Monster
2004 Harley Low Rider
2006 Triumph Speed Triple on order
Re: It Blew UP #82410
08/21/05 3:57 pm
08/21/05 3:57 pm
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 662
Arizona Territory
R
Riff_Raff Offline
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Arizona Territory
Not sure of what the conversion involved & whether or not it changes your torque specs.

Main concern is where the oil is coming from & why. Sounds like the head is definitely not tightened down to whatever spec required. Could you hear an air leak while riding ?

Rings could also break & allow oil to get up into the combustion chamber which is why I'd checked the compression & compare between cylinders. Not sure that I'd ride it "yet", but if you find loose head bolts to account for the possible air leak & if the compression readings check out fairly close between cylinders, it's your call.


"Factory Stock Is A Suggestion Only"
Re: It Blew UP #82411
08/21/05 7:16 pm
08/21/05 7:16 pm
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 976
palo alto,ca.
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az-idea Offline
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Posts: 976
palo alto,ca.
Great to hear an F-16 story..!finally..take note..that top end surge is a baseline..you want to be just this side of a Soft Sieze..and a good distance from the Hard variety..if and when it happens..at 80+MPH..!!..move clip to #4,or go to 230..!!..Now..every newowner in Greensleeve and getting his\her first taste of Midnite Black Face and Wrench music should\must keep this tune in his head.."rebuilders Revely"..!..."you gotta Retorque..you gotta retorque..you gotta retorque..in the Morning.."..or,after every 100MI..roughly..for the first 300..?..never do it till the engines Dead-cold..dont forget to re-adj.valve Cl...Hope you didnt crack a ring or two..do comp.test to rest assurred..Have a Beer..Sit back..Smile..and Enjoy..!..AZ

Re: It Blew UP #82412
08/22/05 1:19 am
08/22/05 1:19 am
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 237
Monclova
S
sloppyoil Offline
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Monclova
If you use the fiber head gasket with copper coat and fire ring do you still have to re- torque?

Re: It Blew UP #82413
08/22/05 1:20 am
08/22/05 1:20 am
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 237
Monclova
S
sloppyoil Offline
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sloppyoil  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 237
Monclova
Meant asbestos or composite head gasket with squish band fire ring. supposed to not need re- torqued?

Re: It Blew UP #82414
08/22/05 1:23 am
08/22/05 1:23 am
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 237
Monclova
S
sloppyoil Offline
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 237
Monclova
sorry to hear you damaged your engine. What were you buzzing it up to? 750's in stock trim(unbalanced) not to much past 6500 to 7000 grand and thats pushing.

Re: It Blew UP #82415
08/22/05 2:34 pm
08/22/05 2:34 pm
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 89
Port Orange FL
B
billbrit Offline OP
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Posts: 89
Port Orange FL
I was only at 3/4 throttle so I don't think I was
beyond 6000 ( I don't have a tach).
I think a 1979 T140D was 750cc out of the box so
I don't think it was converted. I don't know if the stock head gasket is in there.
I am tending to think that i should pull the
head/cylinders to check things out. Is that
stupid at this point? Who makes the best Head
gaskets in the world??

Bill


1968 BSA
1979 Triumph
1994 Ducati Monster
2004 Harley Low Rider
2006 Triumph Speed Triple on order
Re: It Blew UP #82416
08/22/05 4:08 pm
08/22/05 4:08 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,138
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
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RF Whatley  Offline
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Posts: 11,138
North Georgia, USA
Bill -
Thanks for all the details on the engine settings, but unfortunately you forgot one important fact. Every post title is supposed to tell the rest of us what kind of bike you're discussing. It's really hard for us to help you with a diagnosis if you don't tell us what you ride.


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA

"Shop Boy" at Rodi British Bikes
Re: It Blew UP #82417
08/22/05 4:48 pm
08/22/05 4:48 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,022
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Online content

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John Healy  Online Content

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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,022
Boston, Massachusetts
billbrit posted:
Who makes the best head gaskets in the world?
-----------------------------------------
There is more to this, but lets look at this simple conundrum. If you use the best head gasket in the world and:
1. You use the original inner head nut washers and /or
2 You fail to measure the amount of crush on the pushrod tube seals.
there is a good chance it will fail.

If you use the worst head gasket in the world and:
1. Replace the 71-2598 head bolt washers with 82-2184 head bolt washers and
2. Set the push rod tube crush between .040" and .060".
there is a good chance it will not fail.

Using the smaller washers (71-2598) with the composite head gasket will almost insure failure, no matter how many times you retorque the head.

Your chances are only marginally better if you choose the copper gasket (annealed of course) with these washers.
john beerchug


Re: It Blew UP #82418
08/22/05 4:58 pm
08/22/05 4:58 pm
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 457
Picayune, MS
Zackybilly1 Offline
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Posts: 457
Picayune, MS
It's time to take a look-see. This is where the PO turns into the damn PO, in a lot of cases. You really need to know what your dealing with and having a tach (especially, if you wanting to explore the upper end) falls into that catagory.

Personally, I'd pull the head while paying close atttention for clues as to the mode of failure...may just be the top seal for your pushrod tubes if it ran well on the trip home. Head has to come off, none the less. If there are no other signs leading you to believe..., I'd de-coke as necessary, check the torque on the cylinder base nuts, put it back together and perform a compression test.

While your in there, check the ends of your pushrods for looseness (steel pressed onto aluminum), spring (thackery??) washers on your rocker shafts and pressure-cut on your head gasket. Assuming there is no pressure cut, your head gasket can be re-used after annealing and make sure the inside edges (toward the bores)have no sharp corners to promote pre-ignition. Look at the end of your valve stems and the tappet adjusters, as well. Take a good inventory of what you have which may be more important to you next week.

Z

Re: It Blew UP #82419
08/22/05 6:36 pm
08/22/05 6:36 pm
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 89
Port Orange FL
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billbrit Offline OP
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Posts: 89
Port Orange FL
Sorry Redneck I forgot to post the basics ( I refered from my other two posts which had the basics) I'll improve with age --although I am running out of time for that!!

Thanks John and Zachybilly for the valuable
information that a new guy like me would never
know existed.

I will be tied up with some consulting work
for awhile so it is going to take me some time
to do the tear down. If anybody has any other
gems for the EXPLODED ONE please let this old
feable one know.


1968 BSA
1979 Triumph
1994 Ducati Monster
2004 Harley Low Rider
2006 Triumph Speed Triple on order
Re: It Blew UP #82420
08/23/05 6:28 am
08/23/05 6:28 am
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 976
palo alto,ca.
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az-idea Offline
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Posts: 976
palo alto,ca.
Ditto on Johns tip..Useing O.S.washers under Headbolts all but eliminates compression of aluminum directly under 'undressed' Headbolts..I add Lockwasher also to the Four inner Headbolts which helps maintain Torque Dureing the Squish in period the rocker Gaskets require..not to mention the HeadGasket..and Base gasket..but the Rocker G.s need the most sequential Re-Torqueing before they achieve resistance equal to torque and Participation in the desired sealing of all Gaskets top to bottom..but Esp. regards the head gasket..for its the rocker gasket and sealant used there that needs the final re-torque attention..and if you check youll find the outer four bolts always Settle in before the inners do..Failure to respect the different behavior of these inner four will reult in loose bolts and a blowout of H-gasket..usually between Cyl.s just aft of center bolt..or one,or both cyl.s blowing out directly forward ,or to rear..of block..?and difficult to read such as you may also now be confronted w\question of P-tube top seal Blowout..?At such times youll remember..that you forgot that Third Torque check..?or went for a Spin on faith alls well?..and then you get to regasket too..!!..Another tip..copperCote..the Copper..and one last..Ive tried the Paper Rocker G.s and I cant use em..The heavier Wired types make for more attention as described..havent tried coppers yet..tho I hear these are preffered under rocker box and as cyl.base gasket..for Race Purpose...I probably missed a point or two..but Im a bit tired out ?...Hang in there B-Brit!..AZ

Re: It Blew UP #82421
08/23/05 12:07 pm
08/23/05 12:07 pm
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 89
Port Orange FL
B
billbrit Offline OP
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Port Orange FL
Thanks AZ for the valuable tips. Do you have any
favorite suppliers of the gaskets, sealers,
washers that you prefer?

Bill


1968 BSA
1979 Triumph
1994 Ducati Monster
2004 Harley Low Rider
2006 Triumph Speed Triple on order
Re: It Blew UP #82422
08/23/05 1:04 pm
08/23/05 1:04 pm
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,775
ohio
shel Online content
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shel  Online Content
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Posts: 3,775
ohio
Bill since your right there in Florida you might want to try MAP cycle in St. Pete, i've bought from them several times, latley i've been using Britsh Only and have been very satisfied


When given the choice between two evils I picked the one I haven't tried before
Re: It Blew UP #82423
08/23/05 4:27 pm
08/23/05 4:27 pm
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 121
Portland, Oregon
A
Aloniw Offline
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Aloniw  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 121
Portland, Oregon
Bill, I have had decent service from 'Copper Gaskets Unlimited' in Peoria AZ. gasketman@cox.net
623-561-8399

Owner, Lani Visconti has supplied me with copper rocker box gaskets for my T120's, in choices of various thickness. Very nice person and super fast service. He's always open to whatever design of gasket you need.

Aloniw


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