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T140 1980 Clutch won't disengage #79559
05/25/05 12:59 pm
05/25/05 12:59 pm
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 53
Birmingham, UK
T
TheMidlander Offline OP
BritBike Forum
TheMidlander  Offline OP
BritBike Forum
T
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 53
Birmingham, UK
Hi there.
I have just bought a 1980 T140E. When I got it the clutch disengeged/engaged as normal. 4 hours later I pulled the clutch lever and kicked it over to free the clutch. The clutch didn't disengage. Since then I've tried freeing the clutch by kicking it over with the lever pulled so much my right leg is twice as thick as my left!

I have seen elsewhere several references to the clutch plates sticking and a few kicks with the lever pulled will free it. How many is a few? I don't want to open her up unless I have to but I don't fancy starting her up and putting her into gear with an inoperative clutch on the busy road outside my house.

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Re: T140 1980 Clutch won't disengage #79560
05/25/05 1:41 pm
05/25/05 1:41 pm
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 487
NY
OriginalScott Online content
BritBike Forum member
OriginalScott  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 487
NY
Try this: Put the bike in 5th gear. Sit on the seat and hold the clutch lever in. Now rock the bike back and forth. This should break the plates free and its easier on the leg. You may want to investigate why the plates are sticking together. Could be a number of things: rust on the stuffer plates, springs not adjusted properly, warped plates, mis-adjusted clutch, grooved clutch basket, etc. Change out the oil in the primary and adjust the clutch, and see if the problem persists. If so, you will have to take the primary cover off to see whats going on in there. Good luck.
Scott

Re: T140 1980 Clutch won't disengage #79561
05/25/05 2:58 pm
05/25/05 2:58 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,138
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
BritBike Forum member
RF Whatley  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,138
North Georgia, USA
Mr. Lander -
You've either bought a 'pig in a poke' or you have a very simple situation. Let's assume the best, especially since it was working when you bought it.

Hint #1: Since you may be new to Brit bikes let me first tell you that Brit bikes must be in neutral to crank, unlike many Jap bikes. The clutch will break free, but the rear wheel will continue to turn which some people may construe is a frozen clutch. So the REAL starting drill is: a) find neutral, b) break clutch free, c) crank bike.

By 'break the clutch free' we mean that 1 (or at most 2) quick jabs on the k/s lever will result in the lever going all the way down w/o the engine turning over. This is provided the bike has been riden within the last week or so.

Hint #2: Buy a shop manual and do a complete "major clutch adjustment". These bikes need this every Spring anyway, so it won't be a waste of your time.

These two hints cover 90% of all newbie clutch issues. If you'll do these then contact us back with the results, we can then direct your efforts with more focused (read: less costly) results.

In my professional opinion, any disassembly of the primary case and clutch basket at this early stage is a waste of your time and money, and great riding weather. Besides the girls are already stacked up down at the corner waiting for your new Triumph's arrival. :p


Hope this helps! bigt


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA

"Shop Boy" at Rodi British Bikes
Re: T140 1980 Clutch won't disengage #79562
05/25/05 3:00 pm
05/25/05 3:00 pm
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 411
Columbus, Ohio, 1978 T140E
T
tomterrific Offline
BritBike Forum member
tomterrific  Offline
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T
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 411
Columbus, Ohio, 1978 T140E
I have a T140E with the same common problem of the clutch plates sticking. I fire the bike up and pull in the clutch while it warms up. A few throttle blips is all it takes. I've tried kicking with teh clutch in (hurt my leg) and rolling down the drive to put in gear (too scarey) but warming the engine with the clutch in is the method I use.

Tom Graham

Re: T140 1980 Clutch won't disengage #79563
05/25/05 4:13 pm
05/25/05 4:13 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,022
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Online content

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John Healy  Online Content

BritBike Forum member
J
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,022
Boston, Massachusetts
It is possible that the previous owner installed a set of Barnett clutch plates. Barnett plates have the habit of sticking together. In fact when you use then for racing they will WELD themselves together requiring removal from the bike and being pried apart with a screw driver.

If the bike has Barnett plates I would suggest using a set of Emgo, or equivelent, Taiwan plates. They should be half the price of a set of Barnett plates. These seldom stick together and will allow shifting into gear without the usual grinding of the gears.
john


Re: T140 1980 Clutch won't disengage #79564
05/25/05 10:55 pm
05/25/05 10:55 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,913
Houston Texas
Britbodger R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
Britbodger R.I.P.  Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,913
Houston Texas
I've experienced the same problem with Barnett plates i.e. need a lot of kicking to free them from cold.

Relatively recently installed plates that I bought from MAP. Not sure what material they are (orange in color). Anyway, they work great and don't stick together like the Barnett plates did.

Re: T140 1980 Clutch won't disengage #79565
05/25/05 11:30 pm
05/25/05 11:30 pm
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 457
Picayune, MS
Zackybilly1 Offline
BritBike Forum member
Zackybilly1  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 457
Picayune, MS
Britbodger, I've got an extra set of the MAP plates like you described (orange)on my shelf. They are stamped "Bandit Machine Works". The MAP folks are good people.

I never made the Barnett connection until John mentioned the issue. I've got a heaping pile of Barnett plates here that still have plenty of meat that I've pulled out of clutches over the years for various reasons. I've been slowly giving them to my brother over the past couple of years...huh? That may explain some his clutch problems. I won't tell him if ya'll won't. Besides the free labor he received, he may think they came with an extended warranty knowing him.

Midlander, I believe Hint No. 1 or at the very least, rocking will fix you up. I gotta give you credit, though...it didn't take you long to find the right place for help. Let us know...

Z

Re: T140 1980 Clutch won't disengage #79566
05/26/05 7:28 am
05/26/05 7:28 am
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 53
Birmingham, UK
T
TheMidlander Offline OP
BritBike Forum
TheMidlander  Offline OP
BritBike Forum
T
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 53
Birmingham, UK
Hey Guys,
Thanks for the help. I clicked the bike into 2nd, rocked it back and forwards a couple of times with the clutch lever pulled and IT RELEASED! Brilliant!

Re: T140 1980 Clutch won't disengage #79567
05/26/05 10:45 am
05/26/05 10:45 am
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,138
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
BritBike Forum member
RF Whatley  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,138
North Georgia, USA
Lander Man -
Congrats. You would still do well to do the clutch major adjustment, since most people never think of it until the clutch give problems.

Happy riding. bigt


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA

"Shop Boy" at Rodi British Bikes
Re: T140 1980 Clutch won't disengage #79568
05/28/05 9:08 am
05/28/05 9:08 am
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 706
B
beltdriveman Offline
BritBike Forum
beltdriveman  Offline
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B
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 706
If you talk to a few olde Triumph dealers in the USA you may hear from one...'I got really fed up with owners trucking their bikes back to mew telling me that as I sold them the ******* lump I could ******* well free off the ******* clutch..which I always did for free. This was one of the reasons I started making dry running belt drive systems for them'.
Please try to remember that a motor cycle multiplate friction clutch is supposed to possess a few VERY BASIC qualities some of which are that it should
1.NOT slip when fully engaged.(Guess you still have to find yours will!!)
2.Free off INSTANTLY and without drag whenever required.(You know that doesnt apply to yours)
3.Be EASILY operated by the rider.(Ridden around town changing gear every half a minute or so for an hour and you will know that doesnt apply either!!)
4.Possess the LIGHTEST rotating weight reasonably possible.(When you eventually take the unbalanced gearbox breaking flywheel out and weigh it you will realise that one doesnt apply to it either!)
As one of Mr Turners assistants said to me when, a couple of years ago,I asked him to describe the Triumph Tiger Cub clutch his comment could equally apply to the lump fitted to the 750.......It was **** when Edward designed it and it was still **** after we modified it to shove the ball race in for the basket to run on'.Apparently Edward Turner designed(if thats the right word) it so it was a plain metal to metal contact and after a few hundred miles road testing took a look at it and signed off the drawing for production......of course after a few more hundred miles use on production bikes it gave problems...........
Must admit I have never ben impressed with Barnett...especially after I phoned them to ask for the Coefficient of friction value for design purposes of their 'carbon' friction plates and I was told it was secret.........I suspect they didnt know what a Coefficient of Friction was!!!. Naturally I then found out who made the material and they sent me all the data on the material..

Re: T140 1980 Clutch won't disengage #79569
05/31/05 12:29 pm
05/31/05 12:29 pm
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 53
Birmingham, UK
T
TheMidlander Offline OP
BritBike Forum
TheMidlander  Offline OP
BritBike Forum
T
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 53
Birmingham, UK
I guess we can put this one to bed now. The clutch engages and disengages on request and doesn't slip.

BTW, this isn't my first British (English) twin. I had a '59 6T that I did 10,000 mile per year on for 4 years until CINCNAGHOME told me to buy a jam-jar as we were blessed and ankle-biters are nfg at riding pillion. Before that I had a Norton 99. neither of these had a clutch that stuck so I was just confused.

The new problem is the alternator doesn't charge the battery so I guess its time to stop being a fitter and get a real trade as a sparker.

Thanks again,
The Midlander

If you can't get it "Made in Birmingham", you can't get it made.

Re: T140 1980 Clutch won't disengage #79570
05/31/05 12:33 pm
05/31/05 12:33 pm
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 53
Birmingham, UK
T
TheMidlander Offline OP
BritBike Forum
TheMidlander  Offline OP
BritBike Forum
T
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 53
Birmingham, UK
PS.

Thanks to Redneck for the advice on the major clutch adjustment. There was scope for improvement.

The Midlander

Re: T140 1980 Clutch won't disengage #79571
06/01/05 6:28 pm
06/01/05 6:28 pm
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 706
B
beltdriveman Offline
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beltdriveman  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 706
Dear Midlander.
Suggest you get off your botty and go talk to the retired Triumph Service Manager abiut sticking together clutches.
In all honesty when I have asked Troiumph owners if their clutches give problems they all say NO....but when you ask them if they have to free off the clutch before starting the motor they say YES BUT THATS NORMAL. ie the poor sods had been doing it for so long they didnt realise it was a clutch problem.
I wouyld also refer you to the Triumph Workshop Instruction manual 1945-55 Page20. STARTING THE ENGINE Engage thegearbox in the neutral position. Turn the petrol on..LIFT THE CLUTC H LEVER AND DEPRESS THE KICKSTARTER TWO OR THREE TIMES TO SEPERATE THE CL:UTCH PLATES.........IE my friendly midland exspurt it was such a common problem they told owners about it in the manuals.
Bet even those oilde crap Leyland cars had clutches that didnt require you to them off before starting the motor. Ever read A Norton manual?? Possible cause of clutch slip....OIL ON PLATES.....Solution Strip clutch and wash plates in petrol. But what can you expect if you shove a designed to be run dry clutch within an oil bath chaincase......Have a good day.

Re: T140 1980 Clutch won't disengage #79572
06/01/05 6:36 pm
06/01/05 6:36 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,026
scotland
triton thrasher Online content
BritBike Forum member
triton thrasher  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,026
scotland
Quote:
Originally posted by TheMidlander:
PS.

Thanks to Redneck for the advice on the major clutch adjustment. There was scope for improvement.

The Midlander
Are you not going to thank Belt Drive Man for his "contributions?" Hee Hee.

He wears a cloak and can leap tall kickstarters with a single bound.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: T140 1980 Clutch won't disengage #79573
06/03/05 2:52 am
06/03/05 2:52 am
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 98
sunny tampa fla
kllrjo Offline
BritBike Forum member
kllrjo  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 98
sunny tampa fla
hey beltdriveman? you gotta brother named 650man?
i beleive we had the benefit of a few of his rants-eerrr,LECTURES, a whilist back...thanx for letting us know of the "conspiracy" that MR. TURNER has foisted upon a naive and unsuspecting public!
like one ole boy said"if`n i hadda known the damned clutch was gonna wear out every 40 yrs, i`da NEVER bought the bike!"-lol


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