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PreUnit trans. oil.Is the Haynes book wrong? #78827
04/24/05 4:26 am
04/24/05 4:26 am
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25
Far Northern California
bitsa110 Offline OP
BritBike Forum
bitsa110  Offline OP
BritBike Forum

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25
Far Northern California
The Haynes preunit twins book lists gearbox oil capacity to be 380ccs,sae 50.Is this correct? I do not have a Triumph shop manual to compare.Is this to much oil?
Mike


`54 T110 Mild Custom
`56 T110 custom,in progress
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Re: PreUnit trans. oil.Is the Haynes book wrong? #78828
04/24/05 3:01 pm
04/24/05 3:01 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 60
Gig Harbor, Washington
3
39tiger100 Offline
BritBike Forum member
39tiger100  Offline
BritBike Forum member
3

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 60
Gig Harbor, Washington
Da Book says; 400cc's of SAE50 however you should have an overflow plug at the back of the gear box.
I use 75/90 gear oil till it comes out the overflow.

BTW I will get those girder pics to you today (I hope)

37 Tiger 90
38 Speed Twin
39 Tiger 100
48 Tiger 100
52 6T (under construction)
60 Bonnie
66 Bonnie
70 Bonnie
71 T100C
75 John Player Norton (under construction)


37 Tiger 90
38 Speed Twin
39 Tiger 100
46 Norton Model 18
48 Tiger 100
52 6T Thunderbird
55 Velocette MSS
56 TR6
66 Bonnie
70 Bonnie
82 T140ES
75 T160
Re: PreUnit trans. oil.Is the Haynes book wrong? #78829
04/24/05 3:31 pm
04/24/05 3:31 pm
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25
Far Northern California
bitsa110 Offline OP
BritBike Forum
bitsa110  Offline OP
BritBike Forum

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25
Far Northern California
I will change to the heavier gear oil.Maybe it will stay in the gearbox better,instead of on my rear wheel. The bike has a side stand.Even though it has a new seal,bearings,sprocket,etc.oil still drips out.
The pictures would be helpfull!
Thanks,Mike


`54 T110 Mild Custom
`56 T110 custom,in progress
Re: PreUnit trans. oil.Is the Haynes book wrong? #78830
04/24/05 4:57 pm
04/24/05 4:57 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 60
Gig Harbor, Washington
3
39tiger100 Offline
BritBike Forum member
39tiger100  Offline
BritBike Forum member
3

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 60
Gig Harbor, Washington
I doubt heavier oil will stay in the box any longer but it will help with those ancient and very worn gears.

Sent the pics let me know if you dont get them.

Cheers
Terry


37 Tiger 90
38 Speed Twin
39 Tiger 100
46 Norton Model 18
48 Tiger 100
52 6T Thunderbird
55 Velocette MSS
56 TR6
66 Bonnie
70 Bonnie
82 T140ES
75 T160
Re: PreUnit trans. oil.Is the Haynes book wrong? #78831
04/24/05 10:19 pm
04/24/05 10:19 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,251
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Offline

BritBike Forum member
John Healy  Offline

BritBike Forum member
J

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,251
Boston, Massachusetts
I will change to the heavier gear oil.

50 weight engine oil is approximately the same viscosity of 90 Hypoid. The 50 weight engine oil was used for years in this, and most British motorcycle transmissions. Except for the smell it is hard to tell them apart.

90 Hypoid has a greater film strength and doesn't get squeezed out from between the gear teeth as easily as regular motor oil does. I beleive it was first formulated to stop premature wear in automobile rear ends whos teeth are under heavy loads.
John


Re: PreUnit trans. oil.Is the Haynes book wrong? #78832
04/24/05 10:27 pm
04/24/05 10:27 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,268
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
BritBike Forum member
RF Whatley  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,268
North Georgia, USA
Bitsa -
39Tiger is correct on 2 counts:

- You should convert your pre-unit tranny over 90W gear oil for much longer gear and bearing life. To see the effective difference between motor oil and Extreme Pressure gear oil, liberally lube a 1/4" drill bit with each and drill 2 holes into a block of steel. You may finish the EP 90W hole next Christmas.

- You should always fill pre-unit gearboxes with the oil-level plug and not by the measure. This is because the oil level is determined by the location of the oil seal on the high gear. But on all pre-units (by definition) the gearbox tilts at different angels as determined by the primary chain length.

BTW... You can and SHOULD convert your pre-unit lay shaft bearings over to the unit type needle bearings with loose thrust washers. They will fit right in. The bronze bushes have 1 wear point (straight down) which results in rapid gear tooth wear and subsequent tooth breakage.

BTW#2... Your leak is NOT the new countershaft sprocket (high gear) oil seal. All 4-speeds leak oil down the sprocket splines, usually only on the side-stand. Add a circle of silicone sealer before you install the sprocket's lock tab next time and the leak will stop completely.

Hope this helps. :bigt:


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: PreUnit trans. oil.Is the Haynes book wrong? #78833
04/27/05 2:31 pm
04/27/05 2:31 pm
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25
Far Northern California
bitsa110 Offline OP
BritBike Forum
bitsa110  Offline OP
BritBike Forum

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25
Far Northern California
I changed the oil to 90w.This did help some.
Redneck,I will go with needle bearings on the swingarm trans. I`m overhauling. Thanks for the tip on sealing the gear splines.
This oil leak is not only aggravating,it is dangerous having an oiled rear tire!
Thanks again,Mike


`54 T110 Mild Custom
`56 T110 custom,in progress
Re: PreUnit trans. oil.Is the Haynes book wrong? #78834
04/27/05 4:48 pm
04/27/05 4:48 pm
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,662
Scotland
kommando Online content
BritBike Forum member
kommando  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,662
Scotland
And the change to EP90 will make the tyre slippyness even worse laugh I'd fix the leak quick.

Re: PreUnit trans. oil.Is the Haynes book wrong? #78835
04/28/05 12:56 am
04/28/05 12:56 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,317
Vermont
Jon W. Whitley Offline

BritBike Forum member
Jon W. Whitley  Offline

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,317
Vermont
39tiger100,

I'm very impressed with your collection. Although some may disagree, which is okay as everybody has different tastes,if there was a vote for "Ultimate Collection" I would have to vote for you! How is it to ride that '38 Speedtwin ?!!! beerchug


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project

Re: PreUnit trans. oil.Is the Haynes book wrong? #78836
04/28/05 2:58 pm
04/28/05 2:58 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 60
Gig Harbor, Washington
3
39tiger100 Offline
BritBike Forum member
39tiger100  Offline
BritBike Forum member
3

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 60
Gig Harbor, Washington
Thanks for your vote John, I also have a 2004 Thruxton to round out the collection and for blasting down the highway. The 38 is on loan to a local private museum so not many miles, its also an original 6 bolt cylinder so don't want to stress the engine as thats irreplaceable. The bike I realy like to ride is the 37 Tiger 90, nothing like a big single thumping between your legs. My wife rides the 39 Tiger 100 so we are a great sight going down the road. Riding a ridged girder fork model is a unique experience as the whole bike seems to be active and moving, especialy the front end and tha big chrome headlight out in front-nothing like it. If your ever in the neighborhood you can try it out for yourself.

Cheers
Terry


37 Tiger 90
38 Speed Twin
39 Tiger 100
46 Norton Model 18
48 Tiger 100
52 6T Thunderbird
55 Velocette MSS
56 TR6
66 Bonnie
70 Bonnie
82 T140ES
75 T160
Re: PreUnit trans. oil.Is the Haynes book wrong? #78837
04/28/05 7:30 pm
04/28/05 7:30 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,317
Vermont
Jon W. Whitley Offline

BritBike Forum member
Jon W. Whitley  Offline

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,317
Vermont
Thanks Terry,

I appreciate the offer, and will definitely like to take you up on your offer if I am out that way !

:stout: :stout:


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project

Re: PreUnit trans. oil.Is the Haynes book wrong? #78838
04/28/05 7:53 pm
04/28/05 7:53 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 96
Northern Virginia / USA
B
Brent Pinkstaff Offline
BritBike Forum
Brent Pinkstaff  Offline
BritBike Forum
B

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 96
Northern Virginia / USA
Terry!

I thought that was you posting in that girder fork thread! I had my hotmail account crash a couple of years ago and lost your email address. My '38 project still has the front mudguard that I picked up from you way back. I am finally making progress on it and have it 95 percent or more complete.

Speaking of 6 stud blocks: A friend of mine recently got a hold of a set of NOS 6 stud cases, a cylinder block, and 2 timing covers. I managed to get one of the timing covers for my bike.

Oh, and to add my 2 cents on gearbox stuff (to keep to the thread): I have just taken a couple of rides on a bitza pre-unit that I am throwing together. I upgraded to the layshaft bearings and modern lube and recommend it to everyone with a pre-unit that you are going to ride. What a difference!

Brent


Brent Pinkstaff - Falls Church, VA
'38 5T
'46 T100
'48 5T
'50 TR5
'50 6T
'58 TR6/A
'59 T120

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