I've been told by fellow Brit Bike owners that you are able to obtain original Triumph paint codes on the internet. I am preparing to paint my fuel tanks for my T100C (I have a spare one)but so far, no luck in identifying the colours I need. Any hints?
I've seen this website before. Let me re-phrase my question - how does a person match modern colours/systems with what came with the bikes originally? Luck would have it, I have a friend who will paint my tanks locally - if I provide the paint. Which manufacturers of paint systems would those of you who have done this recommend? The bike is a '71 T100C and I can't really say that I am going to replicate the original colour scheme (black scallops with burnt bronze)- it doesn't do that much for me.
Originally posted by jackd: how does a person match modern colours/systems with what came with the bikes originally?
Which person? If you mean Don, he probably does it the same way the bloke I use in GB (Nick at F.D. Motorcycles, Great Dunmow, Essex) does it - collected loads of bits of tin with original paint which he then matches. The downside with this is the Meriden sprayers don't seem to have been too bothered about spraying exactly the same shade every day. Thus, you get someone like me, who owns another bit of tin with original colour, that doesn't match the original colour Nick's been using for ages.
Otoh, if you mean Joe Bloggs The Sprayer (John Doe in the U.S.), you take him something in the colour you want and he uses his 'chip cards' to find a modern match.
Otoh2, if you don't have anything in the colour you want, you find a (relatively modern?) vehicle colour you like and tell Joe Bloggs/John Doe the make, model and year of the vehicle: he then looks up the code and paints your bits.
Originally posted by jackd: if I provide the paint. Which manufacturers of paint systems would those of you who have done this recommend?
So why don't you just buy the paint from Don Hutchinson?
Originally posted by jackd: I can't really say that I am going to replicate the original colour scheme (black scallops with burnt bronze)- it doesn't do that much for me.
Heathen. This is Olympic Flame & Black and is a superb scheme - my T100R is painted this way and the T150 is painted Olympic Flame & Silver.
Just as a matter of interest, this highlights one of those little gotchas that Triumph left lying around for the unwary. Olympic Flame is a candy - a tinted lacquer over a silver, gold or white 'ground coat'. The '71 T100 Olympic Flame is (officially) over gold, while the '70 T150 and '69 T120 Olympic Flame is (officially) over silver, which gives a slightly different shade to the finish (leaving aside the aforementioned apparent habits of the Meriden sprayers :rolleyes: ). However, the actual T100 front 'guard I use for colour-matching (originally part of a set of tank and 'guards I owned about 15 or 20 years ago), is over silver. :rolleyes:
Stuart is right: Don has over three hundred original tanks he keeps in an unlighted basement. He mostly likes ones with the tank badges in place so he can look at the paint below which hasn't been bleached by the sun.
He paints were originally blended by eye, in the days before computer and electronic paint analyzers, in what we called lacquer in the US. His "paint codes" reside in a little book that he keeps in his shirt pocket. It is my understanding that this is the only copy he has. He has about 60 colors that he can recreate.
Because lacquer based paints are not readily available in the US anymore, and are illegal to spray in many parts of teh country he has set out to change all of his codes to modern paint.
I had dinner with him last week and he say that he has converted 40 over to the new paint to date. This requires a long process of alalyzing the original colors, mixing paint and painting many sample before the final "code" is established.
Often it takes ten or more changes before the paint is acceptable. It also takes a good eye for color and an understanding of how different lights effect the color. What might look right in the sunshine, could look absolutely wrong under the lights of a big show hall. So there is a lot of judgement required.
To do this Don has invested heavily in a system where he analyse the original paint and has all of the basic mixing colors in house which allows him to make changes quickly.
You know, the machine is seldom right and it takes the artists touch to make the final adjustemnts to the color and make all of you Triumph owners happy. What a fussy lot we are.
So you want paint codes or should it be :rolleyes:
I knew that I might get a response out of some purists - expecially you, Stuart. I can take the hit. My reluctance to buy the paint from Don would be the dangerous goods shipping charges which often double the product cost, (from what I see in my business - aviation). I know there are many products available locally (British Columbia, Canada) which can be mixed if the paint codes are stated. I can apreciate Don's wish to keep this information close to his chest - he has put in the time and effort to research these products - he gets my praise for his efforts. I was just hoping that someone would have the info available and could ease my effort to find suitable colours for my machine. There is supposedly an individual who belongs to my local Brit Bike club who specializes in painting tanks but his costs are too high - I heard a reported charge of $1000 CAN. As I've said earlier, I have a friend who would gladly do my painting as a favour to me (could be a bottle of wine as payment involved). I will keep snooping for info around this part of the world, and I will keep this forum posted as to my progress.
Originally posted by jackd: I knew that I might get a response out of some purists - expecially you, Stuart.
Tch - must take the time to read the instructions for the digital camera (think 'War & Peace') so I can post pictures of my bikes. You have me all wrong, I'm a firm believer in painting the thing in whatever floats yer boat. It's my *'69* T100R (with disc-brake front end) that's Olympic Flame & Black ('cos I can't abide Lincoln Green), one T160 is currently just dark red (tank & sidepanels) while the other is white. However, more tanks are being internally derusted as I write so the bikes will emerge respectively in a metallic/candy black and Kingfisher Blue & Silver.
Originally posted by John Healy: Don has over three hundred original tanks he keeps in an unlighted basement.
Does this mean they have a lot of dents? And he hobbles about with badly-stubbed toes? Shame.
Stuart, I didn't think that you were the kind to stray from the established paths. Nice to hear that when I spray my tank the incorrect colour of my whim, that I will be keeping good company. Now the colour that I have been favouring is what seems to be the stock colour that you would find on a '70 TR6C - a light variation of British Racing Green (possibly avocado green with metallic gold tinting). Am I close on this one? I've got a few other colours in mind, but I'm leaning toward this one particularly. Well at least the bike I own is a Trophy so I won't be straying that far.
I'm a heretic as well. My 1970 T100S is painted in two-tone 1965 Bonneville colours instead of Jacaranda purple as applied by the factory. Sturat doesn't like Lincoln green and I don't like purple so we painted our bikes the way we like. I went to an auto parts store and eye-balled the paint chip books for a couple of hours until my eyes were crossed. I finally decided on a shade of blue and silver that looked right to me and went for it - Adriatic blue and Sterling silver. As far as I'm concerned the result is superb and have never regretted my choices for a moment. It's ourselves that we have to please, not the purists, would-be purists, or the guy across the street, so choose colours you like and enjoy.
Does this mean they have a lot of dents? And he hobbles about with badly-stubbed toes? Shame. Regards,
No Stuart, they hang from the ceiling. It's like a Meriden bat cave.They are there not only for color (colour), but painting patterns as well. It's good, like your friend in the UK, that someone is keeping this history.
For the purists, when Don and I were researching the tank and fender (mudguard) painting patterns for Bonnevilles we opened 20 factory wrapped N.O.S. Triumph rear fenders (mudguards). All were the same part number. The results, with diagrams, were printed in different volumes of the TIOC's Vintage Bike. (It is amazing how few people get the 1966 Bonneville gas (petrol) tank paint patterns correct)
It was interesting to note: the widths of the center (centre) stripe on the fender varied depending the width of the pin stripe, the pin stripes varied in width, and the colors (colours) of the fenders varied slightly with the amount of paint that was applied over the base color (colour).
Now for those who might assume I am a purist. I once enthusiasticlly restored a Vincent Black Shadow for a customer, that was a 100 point specimine. The bike (motor bike) sported ALL of the hard to get bits, and we painted the entire bike (motor bike) in UPS brown.
I am just impressed with workmanship: like Bob Chantland's (Triumph 750 cylinder fame) totally over restored red Rapide which was laughed out of the US Vincent Owners Annual meet in Ohio, as I am with the work done on Eddie Mulder's dirt track machines (they are works of art and they go as fast as they look).
My dream, is to some day own a couple of Dave Periwitz's Harleys to put aside my Triumphs and Vincents. Dave's workmanship, and home grown engineering is something to experience. For me it's about the workmanship.
Stuart, Come to think of it, that Burnt Bronze with Black Scallops paint scheme doesn't seem so bad after all. Now that I have the bike out in the light, I find the colours kind of growing on me. Is this scheme very hard to reproduce, with the silver/gold/white/ base coat et al? The tank looks great as it is, but there are a few bubbles which will eventually be the start of the cancer. I will still have to pick a scheme for the other tank. Jack
jackd I think basic black is hard to beat. A perfectly executed base/ clear ebony paint is a thing of beauty. A black thinly sprayed over gold metalflake, then cleared is also striking, and period correct from a custom standpoint. Have fun!
Originally posted by jackd: Is this scheme very hard to reproduce,
Luckily no. It is (or used to be, I've a very old CA colour chart) actually a standard Candy Apple colour - 'Burnt Orange'.
Officially, Triumph sprayed it over both the silver 'ground coat' ('69 T120 and '70 T150) and the gold one ('71 T100), but then my first set of tank-'n'-'guards for the T100, that'd come from Meriden, were sprayed over silver. :rolleyes:
Btw, the pinstripes separating the Olympic Flame and Black on that set of tank-'n'-'guards were White - is that what yours has?
Stuart, The stripes are white. The black scallops and stripes are still in perfect condition - and have a quality and depth (seemingly) that I would hate to tamper with. I am considering just refinishing the burnt bronze. Like I said, this scheme is quite striking. Even my local garbage truck drivers stopped their rounds and commented on the bike's good looks. These are discerning people, as we all know - they can tell the junk from the good stuff. Jack
Stuart and the rest of you. Just thought to give you a follow-up as to how my painting went. I painted one tank a solid Jacaranda purple, in the early summer. It turned out quite well. After this one had cured sufficiently, I installed it on my T100C and turned my efforts to my original tank. I decided to follow your advice, Stuart and retain the original burnt bronze with black scallops scheme. I can safely say that I truly missed seeing this scheme on my bike in the intervening six months. I just finished having the scallops painted a few days ago and I am now about to apply the white pinstriping. I will let the paint cure over the winter and the bike will re-apppear in the spring with her original colours. I'm glad I listened to you. Jack
Was down at the sprayer's myself yesterday, casting an eye over the T150's tank & 'guards.
When I bought the bike, they'd been painted a Nissan colour for the 'Olympic Flame', which the seller claimed was a match for the colour when he bought the bike in the US.
However, with having the T100 'guard in what I believe is original Triumph paint, and since the T100 was resprayed, all the Olympic Flame I knew was much darker, and went entirely different to the Nissan colour under artifical light. Also, the T150's pinstripes had been done with tape sprayed over and peeled off, and noticeable 'edges' left. :rolleyes:
So the T150 bits should emerge in 'proper' Olympic Flame, with the pinstripes hand-painted by a local signwriter.
Stuart, I suspected that my tank had never been molested due to the machines low mileage. I did a colour match to the unfaded paint under the knee pads and the tank badges and came up with a '94 Ford colour that was bang on. My painter delighted in the opportunity to spray on a metallic paint and dragged out some old skills for the required technique. He doesn't have much opportunity to do this as aircraft parts are usually solid colour. The type of paint I used was a two part urethane made by Endura - tough as nails if you let it cure and fuel doesn't bother it. I'm going to apply the pinstripes myself when I get this post done. Good luck to you on yours. Jack
I recently purchased an NOS tank, supposedly, for a '69 TR6, although I have not checked with "Roy" to confirm. Its Olympic Flame over silver, obviously and beautiful...and considering its age, its down-right sexy. It is such a striking piece (perfect as new, inside and out) that, now, I'm having difficulties bringing myself to applying the POR coating in it. Tampering with unmolested history, I suppose. Amazing that one can even find items of this nature at any price, much less, $300. I had the color scanned for fender paint and didn't get a perfect match the first go round but will hone in on it in round two, I hope, before time to shoot.
The 'loon hit on a valid point up above ...base/clear is the way to go. I have a '67 T120R that I just could not bring myself to paint purple & gold (the worst colors of them all, next to UPS brown). I went with my own blue/silver with a '67 layout and applied the ultra-thin pinstriping before shooting the clear. After a couple of rounds of clear, block sanding, sealing, cutting and buffing, it looks like a professional job and shiney as a new penny two years after shooting. I'm the furthest thing from a pro having not painting anything to speak of in 15-20 years and when I got to the paint store, they speak a different language than back in the day. The new modern paints are more user-friendly than ever, easier to repair flaws (during painting or a year later) and the only thing I've ever seen that was changed to be environmentally friendly that improved things. The newer gravity-fed guns are the cat's a$$ and light-years ahead of the old Binks No. 7. If you can survive the masking, painting is one of the most gratifying parts of a build to me...makes it or breaks it, IMO. The only thing that looks worse than a $40 paint job on a $10K bike is a $1000 paint job on a $400 bike.
I have a '66 TR6SC which I am restoring. My tank should be painted Pacific Blue with Alaskan White stripes on the top (same design as the '66 TT Special, but with different colors). My question is, can anyone tell me where I can find the dimensions for the width of the stripes?