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#7746 - 02/02/06 9:25 am How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 18
JohnWB Offline
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JohnWB  Offline
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Middlesbrough, UK
There was a thread on here a few days ago which said that an A10 front brake back plate could be converted to Twin Leading Shoe. I have a 58 A10 GF with the full width front hub, could anyone give me more details on how to do this and what parts would be needed / modified with any pictures if possable.
Regards, John


JohnWB
59 BSA A10 Golden Flash
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#7747 - 02/02/06 10:09 am Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
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tombeau Offline
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Posts: 209
Finland
The peg on ther fork leg isn't long enough to reach the slot on the brake plate.

Two techniques: either need to build up the peg (with Tig so as not to warp the leg),

or build up the slot until it meets the peg with alloy weld.

The brake shoes are slightly too wide and foul the inside of the drum. I understand they need narrowing but don't know by how much. I could do with knowing as I foolishly chucked away my old set before acquiring the new ones!

Cheers,
Tombeau

#7748 - 02/02/06 12:51 pm Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
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Posts: 18
JohnWB Offline
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JohnWB  Offline
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Middlesbrough, UK
tombeau, thanks for the answer but I think we are talking about different thing here. I mean to modify the existing SLS backplate to TLS rather than fit the TLS backplate


JohnWB
59 BSA A10 Golden Flash
#7749 - 02/02/06 1:04 pm Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
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tombeau Offline
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Finland
Yup.
You're right I was.
Cheers,
Tombeau

#7750 - 02/02/06 1:27 pm Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
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Brithit Offline
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Brithit  Offline
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Posts: 124
Nebraska, jealous?
Perhaps this was what was covered earlier - a late pre oif Triumph twin leader is a direct bolt on with certain A10 wheels. I had a 1960 A10 Golden Flash, and it had the late Triumph TLS brake plate, with no mods. This is a readily available part, and is found on 68-70 T120s, late T100s, late pre oif A65s, and maybe a few others. The '68 versions have a slightly different arm on it, and it was changed in '69 to make the cable pull more direct, but they should function the same. A friend of mine had hauled this particular A10 out to Steamboat for some riding during Vintage week, and he hadn't even unloaded it yet, when some "helpful" chap came up and let him know that it didn't have the correct front brake! Like my friend would care! He just wanted to stop in the mountains. With this set-up, you could change back to stock with minimal work to make the "that's not proper" crowd happy if you should part with the bike.


Don W.

'69 Trident - U.S. Variant
Nortons: '72 Combat ' 75 Interstate
'59 Velocette Venom Clubman
#7751 - 02/02/06 2:11 pm Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
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JohnWB Offline
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JohnWB  Offline
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Middlesbrough, UK
I suppose he had the wrong type of spring washer as well


JohnWB
59 BSA A10 Golden Flash
#7752 - 02/02/06 2:13 pm Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
Joined: Aug 2001
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Rich B Online happy
Rich B  Online Happy



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Posts: 4,949
Stone Creek OH USA
>>With this set-up, you could change back to stock with minimal work to make the "that's not proper" crowd happy if you should part with the bike.<< - or perhaps just tell the "that's not proper crowd" to "BL#W ME! it's my bike and I want it to stop"


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
#7753 - 02/02/06 6:13 pm Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
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Brithit Offline
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Brithit  Offline
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Nebraska, jealous?
Yeah, I get tired of that stuff. Usually by the most boring old farts who owned something or another years ago, and sure as hell want to let you know the way it should be. Sometimes it can be kind of entertaining to tell the dolt off. I had a guy carefully looking over the Nissin master cylinder on my Commando, and was hoping he was going to say something, but dammit, he just wouldn't do it! I know that it really bothered him, though, because he wasn't admiring it.


Don W.

'69 Trident - U.S. Variant
Nortons: '72 Combat ' 75 Interstate
'59 Velocette Venom Clubman
#7754 - 02/02/06 7:09 pm Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
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Rich B Online happy
Rich B  Online Happy



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Stone Creek OH USA
That crowd does annoy me at times. Though I admit to being a bit of a correctness snob when I see some half @ssed bitsa being passed off as say a "professionally restored 1964 Lightning" when in fact it isn't, not even close. That does annoy me, and i tend to pick stuff like that apart. But

I really have no problem with people who do upgrades, like your master cylinder, like TLS on an A10 to make a classic more rideable, reliable, and safer. Those types of modifications make sense to me. Or the guy who builds a bike in the style he wants and doesn't make a big deal about it not being original. That doesn't bother me either.

But then, I do get annoyed when someone starts that nitpicking crap over either sensible modifications or stuff the owner knows isn't correct. What a waste of breath.


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
#7755 - 02/03/06 5:26 am Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
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B4450Paul Offline
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Saltspring Island BC Can
guess we won't mention mark parker's alloy frame :-)
paul

#7756 - 02/03/06 11:24 am Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
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Rich B Online happy
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Stone Creek OH USA
I like what Mark Parker did. There has been a lot of work put into that.


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
#7757 - 02/04/06 10:17 am Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
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JohnWB Offline
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Middlesbrough, UK
Anyway, thanks for all the comments which I agree with, but back to the origional question. Does any one have more info regarding how an A10 front brake back plate could be converted to Twin Leading Shoe


JohnWB
59 BSA A10 Golden Flash
#7758 - 02/04/06 11:54 am Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
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triton thrasher Online content
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scotland
People did it on Nortons. I haven't seen it but I believe one pivot pin was replaced by a cam and one side of the original cam made into a round seat for a shoe pivoting end.

Do you have pics of your backplate as it is now?

Have you considered a floating shoe pivot to get some self-servo effect without (maybe) so much engineering?


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
#7759 - 02/04/06 1:30 pm Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
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JohnWB Offline
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JohnWB  Offline
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Middlesbrough, UK
I had thought about a floating pivot but I wasn't sure about exactly what to do,

Should I ream out the hole to allow it to self centre or not.

What would be the best way to connect the two pivot either like the A65 TLS arrangement or use the second pivot as the cable outer locating point as have the two levers come together


JohnWB
59 BSA A10 Golden Flash
#7760 - 02/04/06 1:45 pm Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
Joined: Dec 2004
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kommando Online content
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Scotland
You can convert a fixed shoe to floating shoe by doing as BSA did by changing the shoe end from round cup to flat, they had flat steel plates on the end, the pivot stays fixed. You can convert a fixed pivot 7" SLS brake to fully floating by fitting the later shoe as fitted to the rear of the B25/B44. Just watch out as the fixed pivot are sometimes supplied when it should be the fully floating type.

#7761 - 02/04/06 10:34 pm Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
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jfligg Offline
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Lucan ON Canada
Hi Guys
I have been toying around with the idea of converting a 8 inch SLS to a TLS set up. So what I did was to find an extra cam and replaced the upper fixed mount with this. It is going to need some machining and welding to make work. It needs some building up on top. It needs a spacer under the plate to align the shoes with the new cam. It also needs a brass bushing machined to fit and a grease nipple installed. I thought that I would use the brake plate upside down that way the cable hold down/ adjustment point can be adapted/ machined from the original one and installed in the existing hole. I decided that it was too much work for me, and decided to go with a readily availible 8 inch front brake from a A65. People always say they are an excellent brake. Its got to be better than the 7" SLS thats on the A7 now. Jeff

#7762 - 02/05/06 12:29 am Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
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Zimm Offline
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Zimm  Offline
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The land of pleasant living
I am working on a TLS on an A10 conversion myself, although I am fitting the entire wheel. The axle changed over without problems. Now I am worried about cosmetics.

My nave plate (large chrome disk on the left hand side) is rusty and needs replacing, rechroming, or powder coating.

Can anyone tell me how to get it off?

Thanks

Zimm

#7763 - 02/05/06 10:10 am Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
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beezageezauk Offline
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beezageezauk  Offline
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North East England
Hi Zimm, If you look carefully at the circumference of the "Nave Plate" you should find about 4 small indentations (there may be more). The large chrome disc is simply crimped on by these and all you need to do is prise it off from these positions. Re-chroming can be a problem and because the item is so thin I couldn't find anyone willing to do the job. If you can't get it re-chromed, new (pattern)ones are available from several dealers here in the UK. Good luck and let us know how you get on. Beezageezauk.

#7764 - 02/15/06 9:35 am Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
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Richard Kal Online content
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Richard Kal  Online Content
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Maida Vale, Western Australia
I know someone who has had "new" alloy backing plates cast, to suit the 8" off-set brake on his Gold Stars. The backing plate has a thicker boss at the shoe pivot pin location, and he bushes it and installs another cam.

I.e: he converts the 8" brake to TLS.

It works well!

Richard

#7765 - 02/15/06 12:00 pm Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
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Rich B Online happy
Rich B  Online Happy



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Stone Creek OH USA
Richard

Could you give us some additional information? Cost, availability, etc? There might be a few of us interested in that conversion.


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
#7766 - 02/15/06 1:49 pm Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
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6T Offline
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back down the 'smoke',England
...Dave Degens at 'DRESDA' does a mod to convert a SLS to TLS (ref;DE161) for 150 and I believe the mechanism is interal so you'll have no problems with the "thats not proper" crowd.. cheers, 6T 2c


...I do not and cannot accept the principal that incompetence justifies dismissal...
BMW R1100rt
6T 1965
T110 1958
#7767 - 02/15/06 3:13 pm Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
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Richard Kal Online content
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Maida Vale, Western Australia
Hi Rich B,
Yes, I will provide more info, but it will take a few weeks before I see my friend again.

He is a Gold Star freik; has half a dozen of them. He is also a talented machinist. amongst other things he does his own version of converting a suzuki clutch to suit A & B series BSA's. I have installed them into a couple of my A10's and am very happy with them. He sells them for $700 AUS.

Richard

#7768 - 02/15/06 5:00 pm Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
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Rich B Online happy
Rich B  Online Happy



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Posts: 4,949
Stone Creek OH USA
>>I believe the mechanism is interal so you'll have no problems with the "thats not proper" crowd.. cheers, 6T<< - Screw the "that's not proper crowd". I want my bike to STOP. If they want it proper, let them buy it from me, at full price laughing


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
#7769 - 02/15/06 7:42 pm Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
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Posts: 1,851
dave - NV Online content
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dave - NV  Online Content
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Elko, Nevada USA
As we speak Phil Pearson in England, the Gold Star guru, is finnishing up another small production run of TLS conversion backing plates for both the BSA 190 and 8" brakes. He is making replicas of the popular Eddie Dow brake from the '60s.

A couple of years ago Phil was working on a 4LS conversion set up for the 190 brake. Yup, Four shoes! I have some photos. But as he explained it was too difficult to "modulate", and too easily locked up. It sure looks tricko and used a large rotating cam disc to accuate each shoe. Perhaps he will still be able to work out the bugs? I dunno.

"I have lust in my heart", for a TLS 190 brake on the Goldie road bike and plan to buy one of Phil's conversions this year.
A couple of years ago I sent the 190 brake/wheel to Vintage Brake in CA for truing the drum and fitting modern linings. This was a definite improvement over the olde set up but still just barely acceptable by modern standards.

I guess I/we could fit up a 4LS Gremmica (sp?) Our friend GStarRon has one on his hot rod GS and it works impressively well. I believe SRM sells them now as a 'bolt on' kit for BSAs.
Ron also has a Pearson TLS 8" brake on his BB Goldie that he sure likes.

I've long considered the 4LS Fontana as the ultimate 'vintage' brake. But .. "bring monies, many many monies", stops me dead!

And speaking of making your own ... When we were waiting to ride the "parade" on the closed course at the IOM, there were many modified Goldies in the car park.
Anyhow ... one Brit gent had very nicely converted a 8" GS brake to hydraulic TLS operation. You could only notice the small brake line vs a cable going to the wheel from a cable actuated BMW master cylinder hidden away bolted to the lower triple clamp beneath the headlight. He had fitted a pair of small auto brake cylinders behind the OEM brake plate. Sweet.


dave - NV
#7770 - 03/13/07 9:42 pm Re: How to convert A10 front brake to TLS  
Joined: Jan 2006
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Rocker Offline
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Rocker  Offline
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Oslo
Hi, JohnWB

How is your bike stopping now? What did you decide to do, and would you recommend it?

I`m having the same problems here in Norway. My sls A10 have new brake linings (of the softest kind), and they`re adjusted pretty right. It`s still not working at all. It`s either me or the brake, one of us has got to go.

I want it to cost as little as possible of course, as everyone else. The Grimeca 4ls has high amounts of drool factors. But if so I need a new rim because of the 36 spokes instead of 40, and of course - it would have to be a alu/borrani kind. Oh yes; and if I change the front wheel to alu the rear wheel has to go too. geee that Grimeca brake better be good. Maybe all this would be an option if only not I`d heard that they are almost impossible to adjust perfect. Sounds like a lot of sweat and then tears to me.


1940 M21
1960 Golden Flash

"Everything takes longer time than it takes"
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