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OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons #720767
01/01/18 5:55 pm
01/01/18 5:55 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,664
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Online happy OP
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Hi guys! I have a T120/A65 swinging arm, and I have a T140 disc rear wheel, apart from the lugs for anchor points, is there any difference in dimensions for the two arms? length/width?

I have downloaded the triumph workshop manuals and apart from dimensions of the actual frame, it doesn't show any for the swinging arm.

Kind regards

Allan


beerchug
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Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #720779
01/01/18 7:21 pm
01/01/18 7:21 pm
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Running from demons in WNY
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Al, this may or may not apply...I fitted a T160 19 inch rear disc wheel to the T140 drum brake frame on my race bike....The sprocket is a T140 drilled to fit the larger T160 bolts. The caliper is Triumph but Suzuki on a homemade bracket. I fabricated axle spacers as required.... You can see the space on each side of the wheel fitted into the swing arm..


[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #720795
01/01/18 8:52 pm
01/01/18 8:52 pm
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Thanks Tony, so that was originally a drum brake designated swing arm?
If so that will save me a few quid trying to source the correct one. I can’t see any reason why a T160 unit should be any wider/narrower than a T140 type.

Welding extra lugs for correct brackets isn’t a problem. Although I’ll probably stick with the Lockheed calliper and slave cylinder setup.


beerchug
Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #720800
01/01/18 9:32 pm
01/01/18 9:32 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
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Yes a drum brake swing arm...I would have used a stock caliper but used Japanese stuff is cheaper and there a huge indoor Japanese indoor salvage yard two miles from my house...


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #720813
01/01/18 11:20 pm
01/01/18 11:20 pm
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Great news thankyou. Yes second hand jap parts are dirt cheap usually, and if not looking for anything period looking is a definite must.


beerchug
Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #720846
01/02/18 12:05 pm
01/02/18 12:05 pm
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I don't know if the T160 and T140 disc wheels have the same width hubs .....I was told by a few guys here the brake disc would contact the drum brake swing arm when the wheel was positioned properly....The T160 disc cleared by about an 1/8 inch and the sprocket lined up with the tranny sprocket when the wheel was directly lined up with the front wheel..The swing arm you see is from a 71 T120 fitted onto the T140 frame...


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #720860
01/02/18 3:34 pm
01/02/18 3:34 pm
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Hi Allan,

Originally Posted by Allan Gill
I can’t see any reason why a T160 unit should be any wider/narrower than a T140 type.

Except it is in real life ... smile I've a T160 with T140 Morris ally wheels; wheels bought from L.P. Williams when Les was in charge, he supplied dimensions of an axle spacer for between between the disc side of the hub and the chain adjuster.

Curiously, despite the twin's hub is narrower than the T160's, the twin's spoked-wheel hub is three-piece whereas the T160's is two-piece.

Hth.

Regards,

Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #720865
01/02/18 4:01 pm
01/02/18 4:01 pm
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Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
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So could be a case of dig them out and see if they fit. I will need to have a good look as Im not sure what spacers if any i might be missing.


beerchug
Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #720868
01/02/18 4:22 pm
01/02/18 4:22 pm
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A visual comparison of this drawing and a T140 swingarm shows no difference between the shock mounting lugs so presumably the axle width is the same.
[Linked Image]
Of course the brake anchor swapped left/right, bottom/top.
I cannot comment on spacers as I have a three piece widened hub (for a flat sprocket) and a one piece brake mount/speedometer drive.

Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #720956
01/03/18 4:28 pm
01/03/18 4:28 pm
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That drawing is from the -'72 BSA Clymer manual. I measured my '75 T140 swingarm pivot to shock mount with a ruler and it also measures 14.75". From the shock mount to the end measures 3-5/16". Do you know where they are longer?

Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #720961
01/03/18 5:28 pm
01/03/18 5:28 pm
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Naarfuk, UK
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Tigernuts Online content
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I don't think later OIF bikes had longer swinging arms, did they? From 1981 they got better swinging arms made of larger diameter tubing and with the wheel spindle lugs made of plates welded onto the ends (instead of the flattened-tube ends of all previous versions). I don;t think the legth ever changed. I've fitted a post-'81 item into drum brake frame and it went straight in.


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Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #720966
01/03/18 6:21 pm
01/03/18 6:21 pm
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argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Online content
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I recall this info on longer t140 swinging arms from a magazine road test in the 70s , around 74 or later ( much later maybe, it was a while ago) , the later rear mudguards certainly hang out the back a bit more, in the bike test write up it was meant to make for steadier handling, only an inch IIRC, possibly to help fatter tyres fit . it could well have been bollocks.or I may be confusing the 80s versions. quite possibly.
I fitted a T140 rear mudguard to my 71 A65, and the rear ward protrusion is noticeable., suggests to me that the rear wheel may sit farther back on later models.


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Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: gavin eisler] #720985
01/03/18 10:10 pm
01/03/18 10:10 pm
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Naarfuk, UK
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Tigernuts Online content
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It is bollocks - check the chain lengths / sprocket sizes going back over the years.


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Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #721043
01/04/18 1:42 pm
01/04/18 1:42 pm
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Fair point, i will delete the original post..


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Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #721045
01/04/18 1:51 pm
01/04/18 1:51 pm
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The 1981 and later swingarm arm made from bigger tubing and flat plates welded to the rear as stated. However from our experience road racing T140 Triumphs we have found the earlier swingarms are better for racing. The later swingarm flex just behind the welds and where the axle slot is machined. We brace the earlier swingarms and use those now. Bracing the later one did very little as you can not get the added bracing back as far.

Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #721059
01/04/18 3:40 pm
01/04/18 3:40 pm
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Afaik all the rear drum oil in frame bsa/triumph 650/750's used the same component

Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: RPM] #721072
01/04/18 4:29 pm
01/04/18 4:29 pm
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Tigernuts Online content
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That's interesting (and slightly annoying, as I went to some trouble to fit a late swinging arm to my special!). How do you brace the earlier ones? Any chance of a photo or two?


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Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Tigernuts] #721364
01/07/18 10:31 am
01/07/18 10:31 am
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Originally Posted by Tigernuts
That's interesting (and slightly annoying, as I went to some trouble to fit a late swinging arm to my special!). How do you brace the earlier ones? Any chance of a photo or two?


I was thinking the same thing. All photos appreciated wink


beerchug
Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #721370
01/07/18 11:35 am
01/07/18 11:35 am
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Murrieta California
Mike Austin Online content

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Here you are, circa 1971 old school swingarm brace

[Linked Image]

Image from: http://victorylibrary.com/brit/chassis-2a.htm

: Mike

Last edited by Mike Austin; 01/07/18 11:42 am. Reason: Add Stuff

"An ill-assorted collection of poorly-matching parts, forming a distressing whole."
Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Mike Austin] #721475
01/08/18 1:55 pm
01/08/18 1:55 pm
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Tigernuts Online content
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That's great, cheers Mike


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Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #721476
01/08/18 2:09 pm
01/08/18 2:09 pm
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That's great, cheers Mike

(Edit: the link is extremely useful)


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Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #721494
01/08/18 5:21 pm
01/08/18 5:21 pm
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ferretjuggler Online content
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Damn.
I've got a late type T140E swing arm that I had hidden away to be used on my 1973 T140V.
Now I find out that it's hardly any improvement over the original spindley looking thing.
Does the large section swing arm offer any advantage over the STANDARD early item at all ?

I'm quite capable of building that brace in the drawing, but the aim of the project is to produce a bike that looks like the factory could have built it (even if it's not absolutely 100% standard)

Actually, I'm just wondering if I'll ever ride it hard enough to tell the difference.

Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: ferretjuggler] #721522
01/08/18 10:03 pm
01/08/18 10:03 pm
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Dallas Texas
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Originally Posted by ferretjuggler
Damn.
I've got a late type T140E swing arm that I had hidden away to be used on my 1973 T140V.
Now I find out that it's hardly any improvement over the original spindley looking thing.
Does the large section swing arm offer any advantage over the STANDARD early item at all ?

I'm quite capable of building that brace in the drawing, but the aim of the project is to produce a bike that looks like the factory could have built it (even if it's not absolutely 100% standard)

Actually, I'm just wondering if I'll ever ride it hard enough to tell the difference.


You will never know the difference on street bike with street tires. On a racetrack with racing tires it will work the swingarm pretty hard. The later ones have less tire clearance when running a wide tire.

Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #721643
01/10/18 6:20 pm
01/10/18 6:20 pm
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Thanks Mike, a whole raft of useful information there bigt


beerchug

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