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OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons #720767
01/01/18 5:55 pm
01/01/18 5:55 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,956
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline OP

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Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Hi guys! I have a T120/A65 swinging arm, and I have a T140 disc rear wheel, apart from the lugs for anchor points, is there any difference in dimensions for the two arms? length/width?

I have downloaded the triumph workshop manuals and apart from dimensions of the actual frame, it doesn't show any for the swinging arm.

Kind regards

Allan


beerchug
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Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #720779
01/01/18 7:21 pm
01/01/18 7:21 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,938
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Offline
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Running from demons in WNY
Al, this may or may not apply...I fitted a T160 19 inch rear disc wheel to the T140 drum brake frame on my race bike....The sprocket is a T140 drilled to fit the larger T160 bolts. The caliper is Triumph but Suzuki on a homemade bracket. I fabricated axle spacers as required.... You can see the space on each side of the wheel fitted into the swing arm..


[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]


I ride dinosaurs....
Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #720795
01/01/18 8:52 pm
01/01/18 8:52 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,956
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline OP

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Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Thanks Tony, so that was originally a drum brake designated swing arm?
If so that will save me a few quid trying to source the correct one. I can’t see any reason why a T160 unit should be any wider/narrower than a T140 type.

Welding extra lugs for correct brackets isn’t a problem. Although I’ll probably stick with the Lockheed calliper and slave cylinder setup.


beerchug
Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #720800
01/01/18 9:32 pm
01/01/18 9:32 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,938
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Offline
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Yes a drum brake swing arm...I would have used a stock caliper but used Japanese stuff is cheaper and there a huge indoor Japanese indoor salvage yard two miles from my house...


I ride dinosaurs....
Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #720813
01/01/18 11:20 pm
01/01/18 11:20 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,956
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline OP

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Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Great news thankyou. Yes second hand jap parts are dirt cheap usually, and if not looking for anything period looking is a definite must.


beerchug
Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #720846
01/02/18 12:05 pm
01/02/18 12:05 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,938
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Offline
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I don't know if the T160 and T140 disc wheels have the same width hubs .....I was told by a few guys here the brake disc would contact the drum brake swing arm when the wheel was positioned properly....The T160 disc cleared by about an 1/8 inch and the sprocket lined up with the tranny sprocket when the wheel was directly lined up with the front wheel..The swing arm you see is from a 71 T120 fitted onto the T140 frame...


I ride dinosaurs....
Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #720860
01/02/18 3:34 pm
01/02/18 3:34 pm
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,186
Scotland
S
Stuart Offline
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Scotland
Hi Allan,

Originally Posted by Allan Gill
I can’t see any reason why a T160 unit should be any wider/narrower than a T140 type.

Except it is in real life ... smile I've a T160 with T140 Morris ally wheels; wheels bought from L.P. Williams when Les was in charge, he supplied dimensions of an axle spacer for between between the disc side of the hub and the chain adjuster.

Curiously, despite the twin's hub is narrower than the T160's, the twin's spoked-wheel hub is three-piece whereas the T160's is two-piece.

Hth.

Regards,

Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #720865
01/02/18 4:01 pm
01/02/18 4:01 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,956
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline OP

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Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
So could be a case of dig them out and see if they fit. I will need to have a good look as Im not sure what spacers if any i might be missing.


beerchug
Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #720868
01/02/18 4:22 pm
01/02/18 4:22 pm
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,825
ca, us
D
DMadigan Offline
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ca, us
A visual comparison of this drawing and a T140 swingarm shows no difference between the shock mounting lugs so presumably the axle width is the same.
[Linked Image]
Of course the brake anchor swapped left/right, bottom/top.
I cannot comment on spacers as I have a three piece widened hub (for a flat sprocket) and a one piece brake mount/speedometer drive.

Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #720956
01/03/18 4:28 pm
01/03/18 4:28 pm
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,825
ca, us
D
DMadigan Offline
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That drawing is from the -'72 BSA Clymer manual. I measured my '75 T140 swingarm pivot to shock mount with a ruler and it also measures 14.75". From the shock mount to the end measures 3-5/16". Do you know where they are longer?

Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #720961
01/03/18 5:28 pm
01/03/18 5:28 pm
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 727
Naarfuk, UK
T
Tigernuts Offline
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I don't think later OIF bikes had longer swinging arms, did they? From 1981 they got better swinging arms made of larger diameter tubing and with the wheel spindle lugs made of plates welded onto the ends (instead of the flattened-tube ends of all previous versions). I don;t think the legth ever changed. I've fitted a post-'81 item into drum brake frame and it went straight in.


If anything other than a blank space is visible here, something's wrong.
Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #720966
01/03/18 6:21 pm
01/03/18 6:21 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,081
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Offline
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I recall this info on longer t140 swinging arms from a magazine road test in the 70s , around 74 or later ( much later maybe, it was a while ago) , the later rear mudguards certainly hang out the back a bit more, in the bike test write up it was meant to make for steadier handling, only an inch IIRC, possibly to help fatter tyres fit . it could well have been bollocks.or I may be confusing the 80s versions. quite possibly.
I fitted a T140 rear mudguard to my 71 A65, and the rear ward protrusion is noticeable., suggests to me that the rear wheel may sit farther back on later models.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: gavin eisler] #720985
01/03/18 10:10 pm
01/03/18 10:10 pm
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Posts: 727
Naarfuk, UK
T
Tigernuts Offline
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It is bollocks - check the chain lengths / sprocket sizes going back over the years.


If anything other than a blank space is visible here, something's wrong.
Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #721043
01/04/18 1:42 pm
01/04/18 1:42 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,081
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Offline
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Fair point, i will delete the original post..


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #721045
01/04/18 1:51 pm
01/04/18 1:51 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 476
Dallas Texas
RPM Offline
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The 1981 and later swingarm arm made from bigger tubing and flat plates welded to the rear as stated. However from our experience road racing T140 Triumphs we have found the earlier swingarms are better for racing. The later swingarm flex just behind the welds and where the axle slot is machined. We brace the earlier swingarms and use those now. Bracing the later one did very little as you can not get the added bracing back as far.

Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #721059
01/04/18 3:40 pm
01/04/18 3:40 pm
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UK Berks
A
AngloBike Offline
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Afaik all the rear drum oil in frame bsa/triumph 650/750's used the same component

Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: RPM] #721072
01/04/18 4:29 pm
01/04/18 4:29 pm
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Naarfuk, UK
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Tigernuts Offline
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That's interesting (and slightly annoying, as I went to some trouble to fit a late swinging arm to my special!). How do you brace the earlier ones? Any chance of a photo or two?


If anything other than a blank space is visible here, something's wrong.
Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Tigernuts] #721364
01/07/18 10:31 am
01/07/18 10:31 am
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,956
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline OP

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Originally Posted by Tigernuts
That's interesting (and slightly annoying, as I went to some trouble to fit a late swinging arm to my special!). How do you brace the earlier ones? Any chance of a photo or two?


I was thinking the same thing. All photos appreciated wink


beerchug
Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #721370
01/07/18 11:35 am
01/07/18 11:35 am
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 26
Murrieta California
Mike Austin Offline

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Murrieta California
Here you are, circa 1971 old school swingarm brace

[Linked Image]

Image from: http://victorylibrary.com/brit/chassis-2a.htm

: Mike

Last edited by Mike Austin; 01/07/18 11:42 am. Reason: Add Stuff

"An ill-assorted collection of poorly-matching parts, forming a distressing whole."
Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Mike Austin] #721475
01/08/18 1:55 pm
01/08/18 1:55 pm
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Naarfuk, UK
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Tigernuts Offline
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That's great, cheers Mike


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Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #721476
01/08/18 2:09 pm
01/08/18 2:09 pm
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Naarfuk, UK
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Tigernuts Offline
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That's great, cheers Mike

(Edit: the link is extremely useful)


If anything other than a blank space is visible here, something's wrong.
Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #721494
01/08/18 5:21 pm
01/08/18 5:21 pm
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Posts: 207
England
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ferretjuggler Offline
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England
Damn.
I've got a late type T140E swing arm that I had hidden away to be used on my 1973 T140V.
Now I find out that it's hardly any improvement over the original spindley looking thing.
Does the large section swing arm offer any advantage over the STANDARD early item at all ?

I'm quite capable of building that brace in the drawing, but the aim of the project is to produce a bike that looks like the factory could have built it (even if it's not absolutely 100% standard)

Actually, I'm just wondering if I'll ever ride it hard enough to tell the difference.

Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: ferretjuggler] #721522
01/08/18 10:03 pm
01/08/18 10:03 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 476
Dallas Texas
RPM Offline
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Originally Posted by ferretjuggler
Damn.
I've got a late type T140E swing arm that I had hidden away to be used on my 1973 T140V.
Now I find out that it's hardly any improvement over the original spindley looking thing.
Does the large section swing arm offer any advantage over the STANDARD early item at all ?

I'm quite capable of building that brace in the drawing, but the aim of the project is to produce a bike that looks like the factory could have built it (even if it's not absolutely 100% standard)

Actually, I'm just wondering if I'll ever ride it hard enough to tell the difference.


You will never know the difference on street bike with street tires. On a racetrack with racing tires it will work the swingarm pretty hard. The later ones have less tire clearance when running a wide tire.

Re: OIF Twin Swinging arm comparrisons [Re: Allan Gill] #721643
01/10/18 6:20 pm
01/10/18 6:20 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,956
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline OP

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Thanks Mike, a whole raft of useful information there bigt


beerchug

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