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T120/T140 barrel height. #720155
12/27/17 6:34 pm
12/27/17 6:34 pm
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bon Online content OP
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Could someone please tell me what is the distance between the gasket face and base gasket face on a set of t120 barrels ? E.G. the height of the barrels. I have a set of barrels here but do not know what they are off as i have nothing to compare them too.

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Re: T120/T140 barrel height. [Re: bon] #720161
12/27/17 7:06 pm
12/27/17 7:06 pm
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AngloBike Online content
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Can't help with measurements but a t120 has 8 fins, a t140 has 7
A t140 is shorter by 1/2"

Re: T120/T140 barrel height. [Re: bon] #720171
12/27/17 8:13 pm
12/27/17 8:13 pm
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Skudeneshavn Norway
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Stein Roger Online content
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More like 3/8” or maybe 10mm. The T140 rods are 1/2” shorter but the T140 pistons are taller above the wrist pins.

Re: T120/T140 barrel height. [Re: bon] #720174
12/27/17 8:39 pm
12/27/17 8:39 pm
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Naarfuk, UK
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Like AngloBike said, count the fins to tell the difference between T120 and T140. Measure the bores (a steel rule will do, only needs to be accurate to a millimetre for this). is it 71 or 75 or 76? If 71, has the head gasket face got 8 or 9 stud-holes? If 75 it could be a 750 kits for a 650 (in which case, count the fins), or it could be a very early T140 (in which case count the fins again, plus the number of stud holes).


If anything other than a blank space is visible here, something's wrong.
Re: T120/T140 barrel height. [Re: bon] #720180
12/27/17 9:40 pm
12/27/17 9:40 pm
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bon Online content OP
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Its an aluminium aftermarket barrel, so fin count does not really matter, i have measured it with a vernier and it is 95.4 mm approx (could not find my large deep jaw calipers) , but the barrel looks very squat sitting on the cases. I do not mind which height it is, but i want to know what it is.

Re: T120/T140 barrel height. [Re: bon] #720185
12/27/17 10:35 pm
12/27/17 10:35 pm
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Stein Roger Online content
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My ARE alloy barrel measure 109 mm between gasket faces, same as a 650 barrel. I have measured a T140 barrel before but can't remember the exact number. It was somewhere around what I said before, shorter by 3/8" or so. The difference in wrist pin to top edge of the pistons are, measured by eye and a caliper, is around 3.8mm, which would compute to a 12.7mm-3.8mm=8.9mm difference between the "squat" and "tall" barrels. That would make the T140 barrel about 100mm.

If yours is only 95.4 no wonder it looks squat on the cases. The difference between a short and long rod engine is very obvious, yours must look almost strange.
I'm thinking T65, as it has a 10.5mm shorter stroke, it would possibly have a barrel height around 95mm?

Imagine finding a short stroke crank to go with it...

Last edited by Stein Roger; 12/27/17 11:16 pm. Reason: ...shorter by...
Re: T120/T140 barrel height. [Re: Stein Roger] #720196
12/28/17 12:43 am
12/28/17 12:43 am
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Stuart Online content
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Hi SR,

Originally Posted by Stein Roger
I'm thinking T65, as it has a 10.5mm shorter stroke,

Uh-uh ... a T65 is just a BSA-badged Triumph 650, you're confusing it with an A65 stroke, which is a wholly-different barrel/engine/bike.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Re: T120/T140 barrel height. [Re: NickL] #720209
12/28/17 2:19 am
12/28/17 2:19 am
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Hi Nick,

Originally Posted by bon
Its an aluminium aftermarket barrel,

Originally Posted by NickL
The late tr65 was a short stroke engine. Only a few about. 1981-83 i think.

Someone prototyped ally barrels for 'em, then abandoned because the market was likely to be tiny?

Still would be a 10-stud head?

Regards,

Re: T120/T140 barrel height. [Re: bon] #720218
12/28/17 2:58 am
12/28/17 2:58 am
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The Tr65 Thunderbird was introduced April, 1981. Basically, it was a cost cutting exercise that could also take avantage of insurance due to the reduced capacity of 650cc.
The stroke was shortened from the T140's 82 mm to 71.5 mm. Bore remained at 76mm. As well, the Tr65 had , apart from the new crank,a new barrel with one fin less, pushrods, and T140 pistons, but apparently with thicker crowns. Also, it had points ignition, and a 7.5 " sls rear drum brake. ( Drum on the right, sprocket on the left of the hub ).And single Mk 1 Concentric 930.
It sold , in Britain, for £1829 ( T140 then was around £2000), and produced a claimed 42 bhp at 6,500 rpm, and attracted favourable reviews. But, only approx. 400 were made.
I did see one, and had the opportunity to have a ride. Quite a pleasant machine, I reckoned.

Re: T120/T140 barrel height. [Re: bon] #720232
12/28/17 7:54 am
12/28/17 7:54 am
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Pleasant Hill, California USA
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TR7RVMan Online content
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Hi Bon, Measured my T140 type barrels while on the bike. Hard to measure properly installed. They are approx. 4 1/8" (104.5mm). Of course 10 bolt head.

You have 95.4mm, so a fair bit shorter.

Looking at parts book the T65 barrel is 10 bolt head 76mm bore. Photos confirm 10 bolt head & 6 fins. I don't know how long a TR650 barrel is. Looking at T65 shop manual I could not find spec for barrel length.

How many head bolt holes does your cyl. have? If 10 bolts & 95.4mm long, a T65 replacement would be plausible.
Don


1973 Tiger 750
Re: T120/T140 barrel height. [Re: TR7RVMan] #720235
12/28/17 8:30 am
12/28/17 8:30 am
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I measured a spare set of T140 barrels, and from a straight edge along the crankcase gasket surface to a straight edge along the raised head gasket surface, I get 3 - 7/8 "! And 5-5/16 " from base of spigots to head gasket surface.

Last edited by Triless; 12/28/17 8:37 am. Reason: addition
Re: T120/T140 barrel height. [Re: TR7RVMan] #720237
12/28/17 8:37 am
12/28/17 8:37 am
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Hi Don,

Originally Posted by TR7RVMan
Looking at parts book the T65 barrel is 10 bolt head 76mm bore. Photos confirm 10 bolt head & 6 fins. I don't know how long a TR650 barrel is. Looking at T65 shop manual I could not find spec for barrel length.

How many head bolt holes does your cyl. have? If 10 bolts & 95.4mm long, a T65 replacement would be plausible.

Uh-uh, you are confusing two different models:-

. T65 were the first 260-odd bikes of the '73 season and - apart from BSA-badged tanks and alternator covers, and pre-conical drum brake in conical forks - were bog-standard TR6's, i.e. with 71x82 bore 'n' stroke and 650 barrels. All the bikes went to two Australian states' (South Australia and Northern Territory) police forces. Afaik, there isn't a "T65 shop manual".

. TR65 (not "TR650") was an '81-on 650 derived essentially by combining a short-stroke crank (and shortened barrel) with, as "Triless" posted, 76 mm. T140/TR7 bore and 10-bolt head. It wasn't sold in the US because, like the TR7RV after 31st December 1977 and the later TR7T, the TR65 had a single AMAL Mk.1 carb. that wasn't capable of passing the '78-on EPA emissions tests.

Hth.

Regards,

Re: T120/T140 barrel height. [Re: bon] #720239
12/28/17 9:10 am
12/28/17 9:10 am
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Stein Roger Online content
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Hi Stuart, yes I was confused, a state to which I am accustomed, but the bike I meant was the TR65, not the T65 BSA badged Triumph or the BSA A65.
Unless bon has misread his guessing stick as Healy calls it, it does look like someone has either produced an alloy barrel for a TR65, which I find unlikely, or someone has skimmed some 5 mm off of an alloy T140 barrel to suit a short stroke engine.

I find the idea intriguing, I've never ridden a TR65 but I know of one and a friend of mine rode it. He said it was remarkably smooth for a vertical twin and pretty lively too, he liked it a lot and would jump at the chance to buy one. With its short stroke crank, inherently stiffer due to less overhang between the main shafts and the big end journals, it would give an honest 8000 rpm rev limit. The obvious challenge would be the combustion chamber, which would need high crown pistons to give even a modestly high compression ratio, much as the C series engines. The bore/stroke ratios are similar, 1.06, while a C series is 1.05, and the T140 size chambers are deeper. With a pair of E3134 profile cams timed like on a Daytona it could make for a lot of fun...

But I'm dreaming, let's see what bon finds out first.

Re: T120/T140 barrel height. [Re: bon] #720464
12/30/17 6:37 am
12/30/17 6:37 am
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I've always found the TR65 concept interesting. I've never seen one in person. Always wondered how they would feel.

Then there was a 600 listed, but I don't know if ever actually sold. How would it feel?

Back to the TR65 according to parts book it has different head part # than Tiger Trail. But, what's the difference?

I've only seen 1 electric start Bonnie. Was on club ride, it started good every time. I mean with the electric starter.

I've only seen 1 TSS 4 valve, again on club ride. It started electrically also. I'd love to ride one of those also.

Never saw either bike again.
Don


1973 Tiger 750
Re: T120/T140 barrel height. [Re: bon] #720690
01/01/18 2:49 am
01/01/18 2:49 am
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Never come across a 600. There have been tales that in desperation they wanted to make a bike that fitted into a lower insurance bracket, which a 600 would have done. However, the 650 they made didn't. They had lost the tooling for the C range, so I guess they were stuffed?

I've had the pleasure of two TR65's. One back in the day, only a couple of years old, that we stuck a splayed T140 head on, very long inlet manifolds, and it went like stink.

The other, pretty much original, in 2010, and a very sweet ride, smooth and willing.

I think it had a lot of potential, a bit like a punchier T100.


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