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Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720532
12/30/17 10:15 pm
12/30/17 10:15 pm
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Posts: 1,856
Christchurch NZ
R Moulding Online content
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Honestly Bill, in many ways you are right. However I have also seen the results of a welfare state. Entire families living on the dole, all but taking over row's of council houses. Twisting every possibly type of subsidy and hand out to ensure they never have to work. Girls of 14 getting pregnant with their parents consent simply because the sooner you get your name on a housing list the better and having a baby pushes you up the list. Not to mention the child care hand out you can pick up for each child, the sooner you start the more you can have.

This is not something I simply watched on a documentary but people I know. Why on earth should they work when the starting salary of most unskilled jobs is half what they can claim in benefits?

Rod

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Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: R Moulding] #720535
12/30/17 10:27 pm
12/30/17 10:27 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,316
Central Virginia
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Originally Posted by R Moulding


This is not something I simply watched on a documentary but people I know. Why on earth should they work when the starting salary of most unskilled jobs is half what they can claim in benefits?

Rod


Yup. Giving everyone free sh!t works great until you run out of other people's money to spend.

[Linked Image]

Lannis


We're approaching the tipping point ... where those who vote for a living will outnumber those who work for a living .....
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720537
12/30/17 10:41 pm
12/30/17 10:41 pm
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,631
Pacific northwest
Q
quinten Online content
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You have lost the High ground


Let the cartoons, and sloganeering begin

[Linked Image]

Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720538
12/30/17 10:48 pm
12/30/17 10:48 pm
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,088
Sydney, Oz
S
Shane in Oz Online content
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Crikey! You blokes do get a bit stirry when it gets cold.

Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: quinten] #720540
12/30/17 11:15 pm
12/30/17 11:15 pm
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,043
Pennsyltuckey
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Pennsyltuckey
Originally Posted by quinten
Quote
The way to correct this is institute social programs that lift people from poverty. Welfare, free education, free medical care, etc, etc. 

But we do have a social program.
Its called prison.

We as a society would rather spend $100,000 a year housing a prisoner
than $30,000 a year educating them.

Of course this does nothing for the children raised in poverty
They must wait until they're old enough before we send them to prison.

.


The U.S. is simply not invested in their society's members. Not only is our prison population far & above- by a long margin- the rest of the world's, our rate of recidivism is also far and above everyone else's. The reason, as stated above, is that, especially now that we have privatized prisons, there is far more profit in keeping people imprisoned, and educating people is dangerous.

Keeping people poor accomplishes several things- primarily, it keeps the country well divided, & fuels the prisonforprofit machine, to name but a couple.

Spending even a short amount of time in Western Africa (Senegal) was eye opening. Everyone has what they need, no matter how poor, and everybody -EVERYBODY- is happy. There is none of the tension that grips the United States. Security is WAY tighter in everyday places like the mall, stores, & banks, and there is widespread corruption and obvious social disparity- but happiness and friendliness is the prevailing take-away.

A recent report on world poverty revealed that the USA is one of the world's worst places to live as a poor person. If not the absolute worst.

Last edited by ricochetrider; 12/31/17 12:50 am.

"It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: quinten] #720548
12/30/17 11:48 pm
12/30/17 11:48 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,316
Central Virginia
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Originally Posted by quinten

You have lost the High ground


Let the cartoons, and sloganeering begin




OK!

[Linked Image]

Lannis


We're approaching the tipping point ... where those who vote for a living will outnumber those who work for a living .....
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: ricochetrider] #720549
12/30/17 11:53 pm
12/30/17 11:53 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,316
Central Virginia
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Originally Posted by ricochetrider


A recent report on world poverty revealed that the USA is one of the world's worst places to live as a poor person. If not the absolute worst.



Compared to the rest of the world, there are very few "poor" people in the United States by world standards.

People in the middle of the "poverty level" in the USA would be upper middle class, if not wealthy, in the majority of places that people live.

Houses with no holes in the roof, paved roads, cars, TVs, smartphones, clean running water, KFC down the street, indoor toilets, freedom from internal parasites ... BILLIONS of people in the world have none of these things. Almost ALL Americans do.

Happiness? Who knows? That's a judgment call, I can't look inside someone and see if they're happy. What I can't figure out is, if the USA is the worst place in the world for a poor person to live, why are tens of millions of poor people struggling to GET HERE from the poor places they live now?

Lannis


We're approaching the tipping point ... where those who vote for a living will outnumber those who work for a living .....
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720550
12/31/17 12:02 am
12/31/17 12:02 am
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,256
Running from demons in WNY
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I feel bad because I have managed to save a few bucks and have a blue collar existence ...I just want give it away.. Wait a minute, the USA has been giving billions to the "poor" and "disadvantaged" since the 1960's...Thousands of programs for schooling and job training, drug and alcohol rehab, and an endless list of programs...And what has come of it....more poor and disadvantaged, more substance abuse and more unwanted kids and more crime ...The only people who don't see this is the ones who don't contribute taxes ...............


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Shane in Oz] #720551
12/31/17 12:06 am
12/31/17 12:06 am
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,316
Central Virginia
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Originally Posted by Shane in Oz
Crikey! You blokes do get a bit stirry when it gets cold.


There's no doubt about it. Stirring the Pot is the only way to keep things warm when it's below freezing outside ... ! laughing

And you learn so much about human psychology that you'd never learn any other way ....

Lannis


We're approaching the tipping point ... where those who vote for a living will outnumber those who work for a living .....
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720564
12/31/17 1:30 am
12/31/17 1:30 am
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,088
Sydney, Oz
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Originally Posted by Lannis
There's no doubt about it. Stirring the Pot is the only way to keep things warm when it's below freezing outside ... ! laughing

It's completely beyond me how people can live in a place like that, let alone why they would want to.

And they probably think the same about our 42 degrees C the other day.

Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Shane in Oz] #720568
12/31/17 2:59 am
12/31/17 2:59 am
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,316
Central Virginia
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Originally Posted by Shane in Oz
Originally Posted by Lannis
There's no doubt about it. Stirring the Pot is the only way to keep things warm when it's below freezing outside ... ! laughing

It's completely beyond me how people can live in a place like that, let alone why they would want to.

And they probably think the same about our 42 degrees C the other day.


It's only freezing sometimes. A little variety is a good thing. It's freezing tonight, and the wind blowing pretty hard. Just stepped out to the woodshed to get some wood for the stove, and off to bed .... 12 more weeks, and spring will be here, birds singing, frogs croaking ....

Lannis


We're approaching the tipping point ... where those who vote for a living will outnumber those who work for a living .....
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720576
12/31/17 5:20 am
12/31/17 5:20 am
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,557
Maui Hawaii
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Someday I'll post a video of the Hawaiian Homelands project down the road from me. If you have a certain percentage of Hawaiian blood, you get a plot of land for 1$ a year for life.
You can't sell it, but it's yours to do with what you want.

You don't see a lot of pregnant teenagers having one baby after another. No. No one is on welfare. The neighborhood is just plain awesome. Every house is neat as a pin and completely different from each other.

These folks are doing quite well. Most of them would be homeless without OHA helping them out. (Office of Hawaiian Affairs.) They all work. Because they want to.

So the notion that giving folks a way out of poverty makes them lazy, well, that's just plain nuts.

The fact is, if welfare was stopped, the economy would take a nose dive. You see, your taxes are much better spent giving money to the poor than it is giving it to corporate welfare. Those folks don't spend their money here. So the huge tax break our egomaniac president just gave to the ultra wealthy is going to really hurt the economy badly. That's just so incredibly stupid.

The amount of people on welfare that abuse the system is frankly of no real concern. So what? At least they keep the money in circulation instead of hoarding it. I would much rather give that fat lazy welfare mother some money so her kids didn't steal my bikes out of my garage for food money.

And, all this saber rattling going on now is no real surprise. What surprises me is that I lost the bet that we'd be in another war before the year was over. Wait, there's still one day left!

Living in Hawaii, we're the number one target for North Korea. However, I'm not losing a wink of sleep over it. No, I've seen firsthand the pacific rim defense system (as it was 20 years ago) No missile could be over a 100 miles from North Korea before it was shot down....by a particle beam weapon.....or rail gun......or laser. Who knows what they have after 20 years. So, all that's a huge bogus lie.

There will be a false flag operation soon. You can bet on that.

The world is laughing at us. Even if it is a nervous laugh.....

Cheers,
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: NickL] #720578
12/31/17 6:14 am
12/31/17 6:14 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,872
Gnashville
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Originally Posted by R Moulding

Why on earth should they work when the starting salary of most unskilled jobs is half what they can claim in benefits?

Rod

The answer is not to erase the benefits. The answer is to create and encourage an economy where those jobs pay well enough to be attractive.
Our current crop of, "representatives," seem to believe that if we give away the shop to the top tier that they will magically rain Manna down on the peasants. They've taken a Will Rogers quip and turned it into an economic theory.
Fact is that most of the CEOs asked admitted that the extra cash will only increase their bonuses and the dividends paid to share holders (who do NO WORK!)

Originally Posted by NickL
I just know that compared to my parents, i have had the life of Riley, and i'll never forget that.

Yes, my parents suffered through the Great Depression and did their part to defeat fascism. They were rewarded with a period of stable jobs, good pay, and affordable housing.
My father worked at Oak Ridge National Labs under various contractors (the government doesn't operate the facility.)
My mother took a job as a secretary in the engineering department at UT Knoxville. That position morphed into computer programming (she was a math major.) The university paid her to get her masters in computer science. That sort of career advancement with one employer is very rare today. So are the pensions which they earned.
I got my work ethic from them. But, it is getting thin. The available jobs keep getting worse as I get older and more easily tired. My education is a source of amusement to the ladies at the temp agencies. I'll slog it out until I can retire unless the thugs in Congress figure out a way to give my savings to their contributors.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720626
12/31/17 6:02 pm
12/31/17 6:02 pm
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,043
Pennsyltuckey
ricochetrider Online content

Moto Mojo
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Pennsyltuckey
When you guys disparage the poor, you feed into the stereotypes that help create what we call, these days, the Divide between us. When you speak contemptibly of others, not really knowing their situation at all, you show yourselves to be blindly judgmental.

Philip Alston, an Australian law professor, who in 2014 was appointed to the United Nations as a "special rapporteur" on extreme poverty & human rights, found in his recent (aforementioned) study that "stereotypes serve to undermine the poor — and are used to justify not coming to their aid. "So the rich are industrious, entrepreneurial, patriotic and the drivers of economic success. The poor, on the other hand, are wasters, losers and scammers," Alston told NPR. As a result, he says, many people believe that "money spent on welfare is money down the drain. Money devoted to the rich is a sound investment."
He spoke to politicians and political appointees who were "completely sold on the narrative of such scammers sitting on comfortable sofas, watching color TVs, while surfing on their smartphones, all paid for by welfare
."

SO since you guys seem to know it al about poor people, answer me this:

If so many people are taking advantage of the system and the so-caled social safety net... clearly there are loopholes that allow such abuse of the system. With our all powerful government and with armchair experts such as yourselves abounding.... why don't we simply close the loopholes so that those truly in need can get the assistance they require, and shut out the criminal elementt?


And the poor are not only black.
"Just who are the poor? Alston says that many of them are children and women. And they are all races. The face of poverty in America is not only black or Hispanic but also white, Asian and many other colors.
Alston says he met people working full time at chain stores who needed food stamps because they couldn't survive on their wages
."


Here are a few of Alston's bullet points, summarizing his findings.

*The youth poverty rate in the United States is the highest across the OECD (The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development aka OECD)
with one quarter of youth living in poverty compared to less than 14% across the OECD.

*The Stanford Center on Inequality and Poverty ranks the most well-off countries in terms of labor markets, poverty, safety net, wealth inequality, and economic mobility. The US comes in last of the top 10 most well-off countries, and 18th amongst the top 21.

*In the OECD the US ranks 35th out of 37 in terms of poverty and inequality.

*According to the World Income Inequality Database, the US has the highest Gini rate (measuring inequality) of all Western Countries

*The Stanford Center on Poverty and Inequality characterizes the US as “a clear and constant outlier in the child poverty league”. US child poverty rates are the highest amongst the six richest countries – Canada, the United Kingdom, Ireland, Sweden and Norway.



furthermore:

*By most indicators, the US is one of the world’s wealthiest countries. It spends more on national defense than China, Saudi Arabia, Russia, the United Kingdom, India, France and Japan combined.

*US healthcare expenditures per capita are double the OECD average and much higher than in all other countries. But there are many fewer doctors and hospital beds per person than the OECD average.

*US infant mortality rates in 2013 were the highest in the developed world.

*Americans can expect to live shorter and sicker lives, compared to people living in any other rich democracy, and the “health gap” between the US and its peer countries continues to grow.

*US inequality levels are far higher than those in most European countries

*Neglected tropical diseases, including Zika, are increasingly common in the USA. It has been estimated that 12 million Americans live with a neglected parasitic infection. A 2017 report documents the prevalence of hookworm in Lowndes County, Alabama.

*The US has the highest prevalence of obesity in the developed world.

*In terms of access to water and sanitation the US ranks 36th in the world.

*America has the highest incarceration rate in the world, ahead of Turkmenistan, El Salvador, Cuba, Thailand and the Russian Federation. Its rate is nearly five times the OECD averag
e.

Here is the introduction and opening statement in Mr Alston's Report. This is not outdated, old information but as you can see is dated December 15th, 2017. Mr Alston was invited by the Trump Administration to conduct his investigation within the United Staes.

December 15, 2017

I. Introduction

1. I have spent the past two weeks visiting the United States, at the invitation of the federal government, to look at whether the persistence of extreme poverty in America undermines the enjoyment of human rights by its citizens. In my travels through California, Alabama, Georgia, Puerto Rico, West Virginia, and Washington DC I have spoken with dozens of experts and civil society groups, met with senior state and federal government officials and talked with many people who are homeless or living in deep poverty. I am grateful to the Trump Administration for facilitating my visit and for its continuing cooperation with the UN Human Rights Council’s accountability mechanisms that apply to all states.

2. My visit coincides with a dramatic change of direction in US policies relating to inequality and extreme poverty. The proposed tax reform package stakes out America’s bid to become the most unequal society in the world, and will greatly increase the already high levels of wealth and income inequality between the richest 1% and the poorest 50% of Americans. The dramatic cuts in welfare, foreshadowed by the President and Speaker Ryan, and already beginning to be implemented by the administration, will essentially shred crucial dimensions of a safety net that is already full of holes. It is against this background that my report is presented.

3. The United States is one of the world’s richest, most powerful and technologically innovative countries; but neither its wealth nor its power nor its technology is being harnessed to address the situation in which 40 million people continue to live in poverty.

4. I have seen and heard a lot over the past two weeks. I met with many people barely surviving on Skid Row in Los Angeles, I witnessed a San Francisco police officer telling a group of homeless people to move on but having no answer when asked where they could move to, I heard how thousands of poor people get minor infraction notices which seem to be intentionally designed to quickly explode into unpayable debt, incarceration, and the replenishment of municipal coffers, I saw sewage filled yards in states where governments don’t consider sanitation facilities to be their responsibility, I saw people who had lost all of their teeth because adult dental care is not covered by the vast majority of programs available to the very poor, I heard about soaring death rates and family and community destruction wrought by prescription and other drug addiction, and I met with people in the South of Puerto Rico living next to a mountain of completely unprotected coal ash which rains down upon them bringing illness, disability and death.

5. Of course, that is not the whole story. I also saw much that is positive. I met with State and especially municipal officials who are determined to improve social protection for the poorest 20% of their communities, I saw an energized civil society in many places, I visited a Catholic Church in San Francisco (St Boniface – the Gubbio Project) that opens its pews to the homeless every day between services, I saw extraordinary resilience and community solidarity in Puerto Rico, I toured an amazing community health initiative in Charleston (West Virginia) that serves 21,000 patients with free medical, dental, pharmaceutical and other services, overseen by local volunteer physicians, dentists and others (WV Health Right), and indigenous communities presenting at a US-Human Rights Network conference in Atlanta lauded Alaska’s advanced health care system for indigenous peoples, designed with direct participation of the target group.

6. American exceptionalism was a constant theme in my conversations. But instead of realizing its founders’ admirable commitments, today’s United States has proved itself to be exceptional in far more problematic ways that are shockingly at odds with its immense wealth and its founding commitment to human rights. As a result, contrasts between private wealth and public squalor abound.

7. In talking with people in the different states and territories I was frequently asked how the US compares with other (nation) states. While such comparisons are not always perfect, a cross-section of statistical comparisons provides a relatively clear picture of the contrast between the wealth, innovative capacity, and work ethic of the US, and the social and other outcomes that have been attained
.



If the world needs anything at all right now, in this moment of dramatic change, of division... compassion would be high on the list.
To disparage others with total lack of compassion and complete disregard for peoples' basic human rights, to ignore the sameness of all people in terms of emotional & personal need... is, among other things, not a very Christian quality. I have said multiple times, on this forum, recently, that I firmly believe that we humans are very much the same, worldwide, across all social and. political spectrums. I carry this belief in my heart and will carry it to my death.
Of course there are extremists all over the world, but they exist in (probably) fractions of percentage points compared to the vast world population. Now, I KNOW you guys all hate the United Nations, and will certainly poo poo this report on poverty as bullish*t. The findings do stand however, with or without your consent, agreement, and understanding.


Read Philip Alston's Report here.

As a working man, I've paid my share of taxes. The fact that the majority of my personal tax dollar goes to feed the Mighty U.S. War Machine makes me sick sick sick. I would GLADLY give all my tax money to programs to assist the poor, rather than having my money paid into the Military Industrial Complex- because, believe it or not, a huge portion of the War Chest money goes to feed the machine, (and not so much to finance the wars themselves) so that we can maintain our nation's one true growth industry- weapons sales. (OK there is one other "growth industry"- privatized, for profit prisons)

Happy New Year



Last edited by ricochetrider; 12/31/17 6:10 pm.

"It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720627
12/31/17 6:15 pm
12/31/17 6:15 pm
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,043
Pennsyltuckey
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Pennsyltuckey
Originally Posted by Lannis
Originally Posted by Shane in Oz
Crikey! You blokes do get a bit stirry when it gets cold.


There's no doubt about it. Stirring the Pot is the only way to keep things warm when it's below freezing outside ... ! laughing

And you learn so much about human psychology that you'd never learn any other way ....

Lannis


True dat, Lannis...

Here, one may witness, first hand, a very realistic cross section of society: Extremists, both right & left, & those few who remain in the middle of the road. grin


"It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720630
12/31/17 6:45 pm
12/31/17 6:45 pm
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Posts: 1,638
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...as always Euro guys prefer to keep the silence in these threads, so with the occasional Aussie member all remain USA point of view.
I can say BECAUSE I live in a country that the government implemented ALL those socialist programs that one thing is the theory and other is the real life with real people.
I can talk for hours but I cannot elaborate (without spending too much time) a fluid social/political exposition about how is to live with these conditions in a poor country with a growing lumpen social class for you guys see the real reality.

Hey Ricochet those "theoricists" are absolutely blind because they never ever lived in these conditions and they never lived the life with these persons.
I see many here doing the stuff in the office, then lobbying (in this case with the left party) like N Chomsky/Mujica promoting this view of their interests, etc

Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720632
12/31/17 7:02 pm
12/31/17 7:02 pm
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Posts: 5,557
Maui Hawaii
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Bravo, RR. The fight will continue.

Cheers and HNY
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720633
12/31/17 7:16 pm
12/31/17 7:16 pm
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 838
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Earth
Originally Posted by Lannis
Originally Posted by R Moulding


This is not something I simply watched on a documentary but people I know. Why on earth should they work when the starting salary of most unskilled jobs is half what they can claim in benefits?

Rod


Yup. Giving everyone free sh!t works great until you run out of other people's money to spend.

[Linked Image]

Lannis


It is a cold day! Hard to believe is was 65F (18C) just a couple of days ago. With it being cold..;


Classic "Red Herring" cartoon. ("misleads or distracts from a relevant or important issue") When it comes to money spent, Corporate welfare trumps spending on the poor all day, everyday. Sadly that building is not depicted...

The real irony in the USA, one that has me more than puzzled, is that there are regions/states/cities/towns/ that completely agree with the above cartoon and yet they are the ones that disproportionality rake in the "Free Stuff". (Ref: Red vs. Blue)

At the end of the day, its all about balance and progress. Vilifying someone with a smartphone to check on SNAP or wanting to dismantle a corporation is pointless and shortsighted.

If I could have a 2018 wish; FREE education K thru College and Travel. As part of a collective, I would GLADLY pay my share for others!!!


Speaking of what's hanging on 'office' walls, this is mine. Been there for years and it's the only one;

"Greed, it ain't going anywhere. They should have that in a big billboard across Times Square. Without people you're nothing"

-Joe Strummer-


"Back in the garage with my bullshit detector
Carbon monoxide making sure it's effective...
----THE CLASH-----

Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720634
12/31/17 7:19 pm
12/31/17 7:19 pm
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 153
Ontario Canada & South Caroli...
M
Mike P Online content
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Mike P  Online Content
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M
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Ontario Canada & South Caroli...
A wonderful post, spelling out the reality. Thanks.
Mike.


Mike
1971 BSA B25SS
1965 HONDA C90
1969 HONDA C90
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: reverb] #720635
12/31/17 7:19 pm
12/31/17 7:19 pm
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,981
Derbyshire UK
BeezaBryan Online content

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BeezaBryan  Online Content

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Originally Posted by reverb
...as always Euro guys prefer to keep the silence in these threads


This resident of a small group of islands off mainland europe has no interest in pointless political discussion and certainly not the politics of another nation
pax vobiscum


Blessed are the curious for they shall have adventures

It's not the destination, it's the journey.

Bryan
BSA Owners Club UK
Ohio Valley BSAOC USA


Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: reverb] #720636
12/31/17 7:20 pm
12/31/17 7:20 pm
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,043
Pennsyltuckey
ricochetrider Online content

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ricochetrider  Online Content

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Pennsyltuckey
Originally Posted by reverb
.

Hey Ricochet those "theoricists" are absolutely blind because they never ever lived in these conditions and they never lived the life with these persons.




This is no theory, the study was done recently in real time, out in the United States, observing and talking to real live people. Of course the author has not lived in poverty- he was commissioned to do the study. Are you saying that because he hasn't lived in poverty that his findings are false, or are you otherwise disavowing his work and denying the validity of his report?

Did you read the full report?


"It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: ricochetrider] #720638
12/31/17 7:34 pm
12/31/17 7:34 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,316
Central Virginia
Lannis Online content OP

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Lannis  Online Content OP

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Posts: 12,316
Central Virginia
Originally Posted by ricochetrider
Originally Posted by reverb
.

Hey Ricochet those "theoricists" are absolutely blind because they never ever lived in these conditions and they never lived the life with these persons.




This is no theory, the study was done recently in real time, out in the United States, observing and talking to real live people. Of course the author has not lived in poverty- he was commissioned to do the study. Are you saying that because he hasn't lived in poverty that his findings are false, or are you otherwise disavowing his work and denying the validity of his report?

Did you read the full report?


I did.

Completely biased, full of fakery, written by a man who has probably observed less of the world than most of us have, and paid by his sponsors (the United F-ing Nations? Are you KIDDING me?) to get a particular "message" across.

I notice that the posts supporting the "the $20 trillion we've given to the poor since 1965 isn't enough, send more" side are all supported by "reports", "graphs", "statistics" and similar stuff with a very high potential for B.S. content. Whereas the "Get to work, keep your pants zipped, don't spend more than you make, and you'll be OK" side is based on real people's actual observations and experience, both past and present.

I know which one I believe.

Lannis


We're approaching the tipping point ... where those who vote for a living will outnumber those who work for a living .....
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: BeezaBryan] #720639
12/31/17 7:35 pm
12/31/17 7:35 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,316
Central Virginia
Lannis Online content OP

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Lannis  Online Content OP

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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,316
Central Virginia
Originally Posted by BeezaBryan
Originally Posted by reverb
...as always Euro guys prefer to keep the silence in these threads


This resident of a small group of islands off mainland europe has no interest in pointless political discussion and certainly not the politics of another nation
pax vobiscum


Made you look, though .... !!! wink

Lannis


We're approaching the tipping point ... where those who vote for a living will outnumber those who work for a living .....
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: rick e.] #720641
12/31/17 7:56 pm
12/31/17 7:56 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,256
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Online content
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Running from demons in WNY
Originally Posted by rick e.


If I could have a 2018 wish; FREE education K thru College and Travel. As part of a collective, I would GLADLY pay my share for others!!!












And resulting in a huge increase in educated minimum wage workers.......I used the GI bill to pay for my college, thanks to LBJ for drafting me into the Army.I never used my degrees to earn money however, I returned to the construction trades........My wife's daughter paid her own way through a private college by working and of course student loads like many students do. She wanted to be a teacher.since she was a 6 years old.....Motivated people will achieve what they what regardless of their situation ..You give something to an unmotivated person and they will waste it and hold their hand out for more..This is something I have seen a thousand times .......
My belief in self motivation is literally spiritual....Life is tough, rewards need to be earned not given...But there's no rules saying a person in the USA has to work hard or even work at all..Just don't expect any special treatment...


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720642
12/31/17 8:06 pm
12/31/17 8:06 pm
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 361
New Jersey
Keane Lucas Offline

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New Jersey
+1 quinten,Hawaiian Tiger,DavidP, richochetrider.
Free market capitalism is brutal, inhumane,undemocratic, and unsustainable.
My parents got divorced in 1968, I was the oldest of 4 with a sick mother, and we were in the welfare system.
The social safety net worked in our experience.
The 'State'provided minimum wage jobs,during the summer months,working for the local municipality.30 hrs/wk.
My brothers and I realized,that if we ever wanted to get anywhere,it meant work hard and long,
doing whatever our age, skills(?), and the law allowed.
I understand the powers that be, want to now, roll back child labor laws.
That should work as well as Clinton's eliminating the 'Glass-Steagall' Act.Let us not forget NAFTA and GATT.
ALL politicians make me sick.
The 4 of us grew up to be productive members of society (i.e.-gainfully employed taxpayers).
I don't like parasites either.
3 out of 4, became union members.Hanging onto the dream/lie.

My job has taken me through,some of the worst neighborhoods,in the 5 boro's of NYC,Long Island,Philly,Camden, NJ,etc.
I have seen burned out row houses,with the few left,brightly painted,clean and maintained,flowers,hanging plants,swept sidewalks,CLEAN!
By virtue of their situation,sound like some of you would gladly write such ones off as well.
They battle adversity everyday.More than you?
I highly recommend
this book
Some here would do well to consider,how the powers that be, have used 'Divide and Conquer' throughout human history
as a means to an end,predating both capitalist and communist/socialist ideology.


1969 BSA A65T w/A70 engine
1970 Royal Enfield Interceptor S ll
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