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Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: HawaiianTiger] #720288
12/28/17 8:01 pm
12/28/17 8:01 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,258
Running from demons in WNY
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Originally Posted by HawaiianTiger


I didn't want to blow my own horn, but, well, I needed to make that point. I hardly think my view is narrow.


I don't do politics. I'm a Union Man through and through.
,
Bill


Go back and read what you wrote....You have implied that people are wage slaves unless they are in an occupation that you think is righteous...You say you don't do politics? Go back and read what you wrote on the "Internet Neutrality thread".......I was literally mocked by you and several others for my opposing views..


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
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Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720300
12/28/17 10:12 pm
12/28/17 10:12 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,557
Maui Hawaii
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I don't participate in the political system on the national level. It's a bit different than having an opinion. Yes, I support my senator in his fight against right wing corruption, but that's all.

No one ever gave any convincing counterpoint to the arguments I proposed. It was like standing in the field all alone.

Nothing personal intended. Ideas get me riled, though.

As long as we don't take the fight personal, I'm all for fighting it out with words.

At the later years in life, I can look back and ask if I've done the right thing. That's where I'm coming from. When I imagine what my life would have been had I stayed in the electronics field I can only imagine that I might have turned to drugs and booze, gambling, who knows what, just to try to blot out the mind numbing sameness of it all. That and the fact that I was helping to design weapons of mass destruction which was counter to all my core beliefs. I did the right thing leaving it behind.

No, I don't mean to imply that all other professions other that the so-called "Noble" ones are not "righteous". But when you're young and making life-time decisions about which way to go, going in that direction is in my opinion a very good choice.

Cheers,
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720301
12/28/17 10:12 pm
12/28/17 10:12 pm
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 838
Earth
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rick e. Online content
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Originally Posted by Lannis
[quote=ricochetrider]


My dad died when I was 13, my Mom raised three of us with NOTHING - an old car and a secretary's job; we kept pigs and chickens and a garden. All three of us kids went out on our own when we were 17 or 18 - me and my sister to working our way through school into good jobs (me now retired, she's vice president of a large company), and my brother into the paratroopers, then to school and law school, and now a lawyer. My kids are in good jobs with families, in their own houses, with "stuff" I never had until I was 15 years older than them. Most of the young folks that grew up in our church and are living around us are in their own houses, with 4WD pickups, ATVs, boats, and stuff that the doctors and lawyers didn't have when I was a young kid. And they work for the highway department, and as diesel mechanics, and school teachers, or in factories. But they WORK.


Lannis



Losing a parent at a young age is very unfortunate. And not that it would have been much perhaps, but your family must of have SS/Med survivor benefits. No? The 60's had some great legislation in that area if I remember correctly.


"Back in the garage with my bullshit detector
Carbon monoxide making sure it's effective...
----THE CLASH-----

Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720306
12/28/17 10:43 pm
12/28/17 10:43 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,637
Douglasville (Atlanta) Georgia
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22 years here at my job, 36 in the industry. Have some money saved, but just not sure how much is enough to pull the plug. I'm 56 now, and hope to retire at 62. Thought I was doing good and would have enough until I read about health care costs. Guess I'll be working until my mid 70's.
Also, reading in the Bible lately, wasn't really understanding where it was talking about being a slave, and to be honorable to your "master". Now that I read your thread Lannis, I can see what the parable is referring to. Slave = employer. It's been hard these last few weeks enduring my co-workers. There's 3 of them that are ex-Delta employees that claim to have been "laid off" from there. They occasionally "bully" the more quiet guys and minorities that are in our work group (Only 12 of us on a shift). Me, being an obvious Christian, these guys purposely spout extremely vile language and sexual talk in front of me, knowing they are pushing my buttons. They purposely bump into us, abuse our personal belongings, and are extremely obnoxious and inconsiderate. I finally broke when I walked into an office, one of these particular individuals wasn't aware I was present and called me a "Lazy MF POS" and that I should be fired. He turned white as a ghost when he realized I was standing right there. I asked him in front of management that was present as well, "Who are you calling a POS?" His partner then stated "Oh, he means it in a loving way". Needless to say, I went straight to my computer and sent a word by word statement to HR, along with every individual present, and all of the problems he has been causing. I received an immediate response, and it's being addressed. Turns out, nearly everyone feels the same, but hesitate to write it down. They have a history and a paper trail now, I we all hope that these individuals are addressed and proper action taken....
I want to retire TOMORROW! But thank goodness my new bid position will begin next Tuesday at another work location. Can't frikkin wait!!!


If you love it, let it go. If it comes back, you've highsided!"

1971 Triumph T120
2005 Triumph "America"
1976 BMW R90/6
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: rick e.] #720315
12/29/17 12:23 am
12/29/17 12:23 am
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,320
Central Virginia
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Originally Posted by rick e.
Originally Posted by Lannis
[quote=ricochetrider]


My dad died when I was 13, my Mom raised three of us with NOTHING - an old car and a secretary's job; we kept pigs and chickens and a garden. All three of us kids went out on our own when we were 17 or 18 - me and my sister to working our way through school into good jobs (me now retired, she's vice president of a large company), and my brother into the paratroopers, then to school and law school, and now a lawyer. My kids are in good jobs with families, in their own houses, with "stuff" I never had until I was 15 years older than them. Most of the young folks that grew up in our church and are living around us are in their own houses, with 4WD pickups, ATVs, boats, and stuff that the doctors and lawyers didn't have when I was a young kid. And they work for the highway department, and as diesel mechanics, and school teachers, or in factories. But they WORK.


Lannis


Losing a parent at a young age is very unfortunate. And not that it would have been much perhaps, but your family must of have SS/Med survivor benefits. No? The 60's had some great legislation in that area if I remember correctly.



My Dad went to Fork Union Military Academy at age 13 in 1941. In 1944 at age 16, he joined the wartime Navy as a Seaman (you could do that, coming out of a military academy during wartime). He retired at age 36 after 20 years enlisted, and died at age 39 of his second heart attack (he smoked and drank something chronic, like a lot of sailors). I remember that the monthly check was $150/mo; my Mom worked as a secretary at about $1.25/hour, so, what with the little coming in from the farm, and me starting work as an evening janitor at the high school when I was 15, it worked out OK and we had what we needed. Nobody would be satisfied with it today, but back then it was standard .... (one car, one phone (no extension phone), no bicycle till I was 12, no clothes dryer, no air conditioning, one b&w TV set, two AM radios, we ate out once a month at the S&W Cafeteria and THAT was a treat). Happy days though and I LOVED getting a paycheck!

Well, all right, it wasn't "NOTHING", it was something. But it were a house to US!

Lannis (cue the 4 Yorkshiremen)


We're approaching the tipping point ... where those who vote for a living will outnumber those who work for a living .....
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720335
12/29/17 5:47 am
12/29/17 5:47 am
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,857
Christchurch NZ
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Seems to me the quote is simply encouraging a decent work ethic, something that is not all that common anymore.

Rod

Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720363
12/29/17 10:50 am
12/29/17 10:50 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,875
Gnashville
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Originally Posted by Lannis
[
I've always had the greatest respect for self-employed guys. I had opportunities, but never had the nerve to get out there without a safety net.

No sick days. No vacation days where your work is waiting for you when you get back. No one managing a 401K fund for you, or sending in Social Security contributions, or doing the company taxes, just you. No paid holidays.

I would probably have enjoyed it if I'd done it, but now I'll never know!

Lannis

"Independent subcontractor." Sounds nice, but too many workers now find that to be the only employment option in their profession. And, it's not always working for yourself. In every way but tax status you are treated as an employee, expected to be there when needed, sometimes to work for a day rate which works out to less than minimum wage. Nevermind that you work using company tools and equipment as well as other things which legally qualify you as an "employee," you're on your own as far as insurance and taxes are concerned. Your only option is to report your, "employer," to the IRS. Good luck finding a job after that!
Been there, done that, and it's the main reason I no longer work in live sound. It only makes sense if you get to keep all the profits.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: DavidP] #720367
12/29/17 11:44 am
12/29/17 11:44 am
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,636
Pacific northwest
Q
quinten Online content
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Good work speaks for itself.
I always did my best to satisfy myself, not some boss.
I found that Doing good work made the 'world right' for that moment in time.
This was more than good enough for me, it was therapeutic...
And is a hell of a lot easier than watching the clock.

On another note
Loyalty is commensurate with pay scale.
Your selling your labor not your soul.

Unfortunately Not all jobs require good work.
Some jobs require more patience and little skill.


I think this tread
Started With its
Sunday school homily , explaining how a worker should praise the blesssed job-giver
Is humorously outdated.

Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720370
12/29/17 12:05 pm
12/29/17 12:05 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,751
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
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Apparently, I've led a VERY blessed life.

Even though I've only been well paid twice in my lifetime, I ALWAYS performed head and shoulders above those around me, often those with college degrees and more experience. THEY were the wage slaves, NOT ME!!!

I've only ever "quit" ONE job, my last one, working for a "friend" who promised me and a mutual friend and co-worker bonuses and raises should we secure a multi-million-dollar contract, which we DID (thanx almost entirely to MY very long hours, project estimating that nobody else in the company including the owner could do, and the preparation of the actual sealed bid documents which nobody else including the owner could even THINK of doing). Upon receiving the news that we were awarded the contract, my "friend" CUT my pay, and refused to pay me ANY type of bonus. I walked out within 2 hours. To this day, he only gave my co-worker a $1/hr raise, and NO bonus. Needless to say, I no longer call that man a friend.

As I am able to keep food on the table and the lights turned on, by the sweat of my brow in my own humble garage, I will do so for as long as necessary, without the cares of being in the office at any certain time, meeting deadlines, taking 30 minute lunches, and working till after dark UNLESS I WANT TO.


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: R Moulding] #720374
12/29/17 12:41 pm
12/29/17 12:41 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,320
Central Virginia
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Originally Posted by R Moulding

Seems to me the quote is simply encouraging a decent work ethic, something that is not all that common anymore.

Rod


That was the original idea ... lots of good comments related to it, though.

Lannis


We're approaching the tipping point ... where those who vote for a living will outnumber those who work for a living .....
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720375
12/29/17 1:13 pm
12/29/17 1:13 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,258
Running from demons in WNY
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I suppose if it wasn't for the "wage slaves" paying most of the taxes, the "noble occupations" with low pay wouldn't have roads to ride on bigt grin. Actually this list posted earlier is a bit silly saying they might not make good pay Noble wages ain't low Just check out retirement and benefits for many of those occupations.
And after a storm knocks out your power, guys like me restoring power or cleaning the debris are pretty damn "noble" eh? laughing


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720397
12/29/17 6:25 pm
12/29/17 6:25 pm
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 500
belgium
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Seems like some have a full time job posting on forums .. ..

Last edited by ludwig; 12/29/17 6:33 pm.
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: ludwig] #720402
12/29/17 7:22 pm
12/29/17 7:22 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,320
Central Virginia
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Originally Posted by ludwig
Seems like some have a full time job posting on forums .. ..


They're not the silliest ones though.

The really silly ones are the ones that think that other people post "full time", and then they read the posts, and then RESPOND to them!

Hard to imagine why, but some people do that ....

Lannis


We're approaching the tipping point ... where those who vote for a living will outnumber those who work for a living .....
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720407
12/29/17 7:42 pm
12/29/17 7:42 pm
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,044
Pennsyltuckey
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A solid work ethic is one of the best human traits, in my personal opinion. Many don't have it simply because they've never been taught or shown what working really is. I see it in younger "kids" these days. Some of them clearly aren't interested in working. Others clearly are interested and want to help, but they're not sure what to do or how to jump in. On a job, whatever that job is, it is up to us older guys to mentor young workers and help them learn, help them develop both an ethic an a skill set. I show them how to do things, answer any and all questions, make sure they know that safety is the top priority. I get em going and then step back and let em go. I'l go do other stuff or hang with them and help them get over any "humps".

In our industry, there are usually a handful (at least) of kids who are coming in cold. More than anything else, there's lots folder people who have worked themselves nearly to death. It is our job as older, experienced journeyman workers to show these kids the ropes. And to teach them the type of ethic we need on the job- that one life lesson maybe they didn't get at home.

A good work ethic and the willingness to act & learn, are tools like any other. Some folks will never get it, don't care, won't try. Those who do care and who want to work... lets get em rolling! Besides, who will take over for the old guys, if not the young bucks? (or does LOL) ? We in Entertainment work with men, women, people of all social stripes, & classes, all races. Most are capable of figuring it out, and we all are part of a big team. it's pretty impressive to see 70 people assemble 30 53 foot tractor trailers worth of show gear in 4 or 5 hours!

Last edited by ricochetrider; 12/29/17 7:51 pm.

"It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720412
12/29/17 9:01 pm
12/29/17 9:01 pm
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 500
belgium
ludwig Offline
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belgium
Originally Posted by Lannis
Originally Posted by ludwig
Seems like some have a full time job posting on forums .. ..


The really silly ones are the ones that think that other people post "full time", and then they read the posts, and then RESPOND to them!


Wich is exactly what you just did ..

Last edited by ludwig; 12/29/17 9:08 pm.
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: ludwig] #720413
12/29/17 9:07 pm
12/29/17 9:07 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,320
Central Virginia
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Originally Posted by ludwig
Originally Posted by Lannis
Originally Posted by ludwig
Seems like some have a full time job posting on forums .. ..


The really silly ones are the ones that think that other people post "full time", and then they read the posts, and then RESPOND to them!


You mean , like you just did ? ..


Absolutely. Me personal, I don't have a problem with it; if people want to have a 12-page Rod and Tappet discussion, I'm not poking my stick in with a snide comment about "full time job posting on forums". Some people DO seem to have a problem with it, and waste their time reading and posting anyway ... ? Go figure.

Lannis


We're approaching the tipping point ... where those who vote for a living will outnumber those who work for a living .....
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720414
12/29/17 9:12 pm
12/29/17 9:12 pm
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 500
belgium
ludwig Offline
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belgium
Lannis , do you honestly believe I red all your 12 000 + posts ( on this forum alone ) ??
and why do you feel adressed in the first place ?

Last edited by ludwig; 12/29/17 9:13 pm.
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: ricochetrider] #720415
12/29/17 9:19 pm
12/29/17 9:19 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,320
Central Virginia
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Originally Posted by ricochetrider
A solid work ethic is one of the best human traits, in my personal opinion. Many don't have it simply because they've never been taught or shown what working really is......


Agree with every word of that post ....

I will note that I'm always saying that it really WASN'T that much economically better in the 50s and 60s in terms of material things. Real wages and buying power were lower then ... I don't care about graphs and statistics, I know what regular people had, materially, THEN and what they have NOW, and there's no comparison.

And the best evidence is that people in the old days couldn't AFFORD not to have a work ethic, like they can now. They HAD to get out and work. Anasztaz followed his grandad and dad into the Jones and Laughlin steel mill on the Monongahela because he COULDN'T "not work" and survive. Hercules started hilling corn and picking cotton when he was 8 years old because he wasn't going to eat any other way. Jim Bob started working on old cars with his uncle when he was 12 and got a full time job at the Esso station when he was 16 because no one was going to support him if he didn't. Sure, the Vanderbilt's and Gould's and Rockefeller's sons and daughters could play lawn tennis and go on European tours all year, but that's always been true.

Today it seems (as you say) that half the "middle class" kids around are just planning on staying home and playing video games and taking an occasional course at the community college ... and if they DO get a job, they can't be arsed to show up or do any work unless someone stays on their case all the time. It's because they know they have a safety net, they can bail out and quit and they won't go hungry, so it's all OK. Didn't USED to be .... !

Lannis (I never realized before that curmudgeonliness is actually wisdom ...!)


We're approaching the tipping point ... where those who vote for a living will outnumber those who work for a living .....
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720416
12/29/17 9:21 pm
12/29/17 9:21 pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3
south Ga.
R
rweb Online content
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south Ga.
Life is short.

Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: ludwig] #720417
12/29/17 9:24 pm
12/29/17 9:24 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,320
Central Virginia
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Originally Posted by ludwig
Lannis , do you honestly believe I red all your 12 000 + posts ( on this forum alone ) ??
and why do you feel adressed in the first place ?


Ever heard the term "Just sayin'?" It's very expressive.

Just sayin'.

Lannis


We're approaching the tipping point ... where those who vote for a living will outnumber those who work for a living .....
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: rweb] #720418
12/29/17 9:26 pm
12/29/17 9:26 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,320
Central Virginia
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Originally Posted by rweb
Life is short.


True. But read the Larry Niven short story "Cautionary Tale" from the Draco Tavern collection.

Life could go 3000 years and it wouldn't be long enough ......

Lannis


We're approaching the tipping point ... where those who vote for a living will outnumber those who work for a living .....
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: ricochetrider] #720428
12/29/17 10:30 pm
12/29/17 10:30 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,258
Running from demons in WNY
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Running from demons in WNY
Originally Posted by ricochetrider
A solid work ethic is one of the best human traits, in my personal opinion. Many don't have it simply because they've never been taught or shown what working really is.


I also think many people have a "victim" personality...Their problems are always the fault of someone else.. Just like a teenager......


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: Lannis] #720447
12/30/17 1:33 am
12/30/17 1:33 am
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,424
Aus
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NickL Offline
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Aus
I just know that compared to my parents, i have had the life of Riley, and i'll never forget that.

I could have been a lot wealthier but i had great fun instead.



Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: NickL] #720515
12/30/17 6:54 pm
12/30/17 6:54 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,557
Maui Hawaii
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Maui Hawaii
Here's the rub. Once you've poked your head up above the crowd and have seen just what is going on, there is just no way in hell you're going to approve of what's going on.

Here's some interesting facts.

There is enough wealth in this country to enable every man woman and child to live out the rest of their years in relative comfort without having to work a day in their lives.

The fact that millions live in poverty, turn to drugs, crime and live in desperation or prison is a condition that doesn't have to exist, yet it does.

The fact that it does means that those who have the power and money to correct this, don't want to. They like things the way they are.

That is sick sick sick.

Blaming poor people for being poor is elitist, pathological, disgusting, immoral. I could go on.

The way to correct this is institute social programs that lift people from poverty. Welfare, free education, free medical care, etc, etc.

I don't have to be a liberal, or democrat or bleeding heart whatever to see the truth. My travels in other countries have enlightened me.

Work ethic comes with a full stomach.

When people are hungry, none of the niceties of society exist.

That welfare person using the 800$ phone had to prostitute themselves to get it, or sell drugs, or just steal it.

Have a nice day.

Bill

Last edited by HawaiianTiger; 12/30/17 6:58 pm.

Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: To the hard-working guys ..... [Re: HawaiianTiger] #720529
12/30/17 10:04 pm
12/30/17 10:04 pm
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,636
Pacific northwest
Q
quinten Online content
BritBike Forum member
quinten  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Q
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,636
Pacific northwest
Quote
The way to correct this is institute social programs that lift people from poverty. Welfare, free education, free medical care, etc, etc. 

But we do have a social program.
Its called prison.

We as a society would rather spend $100,000 a year housing a prisoner
than $30,000 a year educating them.

Of course this does nothing for the children raised in poverty
They must wait until they're old enough before we send them to prison.

.

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