BritBike Forum logo
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
The Bonneville Shop JRC Engineering dealers
Home | Sponsors, Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons, "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Member Spotlight
Alan Lonneville
Alan Lonneville
Ohio,USA
Posts: 31
Joined: June 2014
Show All Member Profiles 
Shout Box
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Random Gallery photo
Who's Online Now
46 registered members (Alan_nc), 256 guests, and 346 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Davenz13, Sean65, Rerock, pkuzyk, Hunter S
10476 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
NickL 89
franko 71
Triless 67
Popular Topics(Views)
746,989 mail-order LSR
Forum Statistics
Forums34
Topics68,810
Posts670,256
Members10,476
Most Online3,995
Feb 13th, 2017
Like BritBike.com on Facebook

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Vintage V12 Stuff #717287
11/30/17 10:04 pm
11/30/17 10:04 pm
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 383
New Jersey
Keane Lucas Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Keane Lucas  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 383
New Jersey


1969 BSA A65T w/A70 engine
1970 Royal Enfield Interceptor S ll
Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!

Check out British motorcycles for sale:
British Motorcycles on e-Bay UK, British motorcycles on e-Bay North America
Check out British motorcycles for sale:
British Motorcycles on e-Bay UK, British motorcycles on e-Bay North America
Re: Vintage V12 Stuff [Re: Keane Lucas] #717313
12/01/17 1:35 am
12/01/17 1:35 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,124
Stone Creek OH USA
R
Rich B Offline

BritBike Forum member
Rich B  Offline

BritBike Forum member
R

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,124
Stone Creek OH USA
Amazing......

The technology of the big piston engines fascinates me....


Never underestimate the human ability to elevate stupid to a whole new level!.
Re: Vintage V12 Stuff [Re: Keane Lucas] #717336
12/01/17 5:09 am
12/01/17 5:09 am
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 231
Hailey,Id.
B
bsawood Offline

BritBike Forum member
bsawood  Offline

BritBike Forum member
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 231
Hailey,Id.
Where can you find part 2 and 3?

Re: Vintage V12 Stuff [Re: Keane Lucas] #717396
12/01/17 4:52 pm
12/01/17 4:52 pm
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 540
UK
D
Dibnah Online content
BritBike Forum member
Dibnah  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
D

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 540
UK
On the youtube sidebar, B52 flying without a tailfin.

Re: Vintage V12 Stuff [Re: bsawood] #717409
12/01/17 6:15 pm
12/01/17 6:15 pm
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 70
Glendale AZ USA
Norri Robertson Offline
BritBike Forum member
Norri Robertson  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 70
Glendale AZ USA
Originally Posted by bsawood
Where can you find part 2 and 3?


I don't think he's posted them yet, part one only went up yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOC84qwgDHkUPwfeLKL40tQ

Re: Vintage V12 Stuff [Re: Norri Robertson] #717439
12/02/17 1:04 am
12/02/17 1:04 am
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 231
Hailey,Id.
B
bsawood Offline

BritBike Forum member
bsawood  Offline

BritBike Forum member
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 231
Hailey,Id.
Thank's, I'll be looking for them.

Re: Vintage V12 Stuff [Re: bsawood] #717535
12/03/17 5:33 am
12/03/17 5:33 am
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 13,044
Central Virginia
Lannis Online content

Well'ard Rocker
Lannis  Online Content

Well'ard Rocker

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 13,044
Central Virginia
My favorite part is how neat and clean the shops are. There doesn't seem to be anyone working at most of the benches - maybe it's the same reason why we're not at our benches.

We're waiting for parts we ordered!

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: Vintage V12 Stuff [Re: Keane Lucas] #717552
12/03/17 12:25 pm
12/03/17 12:25 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,174
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Online content
BritBike Forum member
Hillbilly bike  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,174
Running from demons in WNY
Crankshafts are almost always stored on end in the many machine shops I have seen.......If you like V-12 aircraft engines get the V's For Victory book by Daniel Whitney. It's expensive but a complete detailed history of the Allison Engineering and it's development of their V-12.It also contains some info on the Rolls Royce Merlin development..You can appreciate what it took to design and build a combat engine back then and overcome reliability issues...


I take off bike parts until it doesn't function, then put on just enough so it functions
Re: Vintage V12 Stuff [Re: Keane Lucas] #718312
12/10/17 10:45 am
12/10/17 10:45 am
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,024
.
Les P Offline

BritBike Forum member
Les P  Offline

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,024
.
This is the Part Two Video of the first post link.


Last edited by Les P; 12/14/17 11:44 pm.

More bikes and projects than you can shake a stick at but they should be done in two shakes of a lamb's tail.
Re: Vintage V12 Stuff [Re: Hillbilly bike] #718321
12/10/17 1:34 pm
12/10/17 1:34 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,124
Stone Creek OH USA
R
Rich B Offline

BritBike Forum member
Rich B  Offline

BritBike Forum member
R

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,124
Stone Creek OH USA
For a similar read, try: R2800 Pratt & Whitney’s Dependable Masterpiece. Not a V12, but the development history of what some consider the finest large aircraft piston engine. There is also a short version on the internet.

The design and development of any of these engines fascinate me. Some very bright people who pushed the engine technology of the day.


Never underestimate the human ability to elevate stupid to a whole new level!.
Re: Vintage V12 Stuff [Re: Keane Lucas] #718369
12/10/17 10:02 pm
12/10/17 10:02 pm
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 835
Brisbane, Australia
BrizzoBrit Offline

Life member
BrizzoBrit  Offline

Life member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 835
Brisbane, Australia
I was amused by his comment about the brits using 'inferior' (flat) cam followers and not roller followers. I'd always thought these Merlins were pretty much state of the art.

Looking at some other RR Merlin articles they got some pretty prodigious improvements in power output during development.

This would bring a smile to my dad's face as he trained on on and rebuilt many of these during WW2.

Rich, if that's the 4 row engine, they are an impressive piece of engineering. I always wonder how the rearmost row of cylinders gets sufficient cooling.


Ray


BSA 1969 A65F
BSA 1966 A65H
Triumph 1968 T120
Kawasaki A1R
& too many projects!
Re: Vintage V12 Stuff [Re: BrizzoBrit] #718376
12/10/17 11:31 pm
12/10/17 11:31 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,124
Stone Creek OH USA
R
Rich B Offline

BritBike Forum member
Rich B  Offline

BritBike Forum member
R

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,124
Stone Creek OH USA
The R2800 was a 2 row engine. The 4 row engine was the R4360, which was impressive, but not the reliable workhorse it’s smaller brother was.



Never underestimate the human ability to elevate stupid to a whole new level!.
Re: Vintage V12 Stuff [Re: BrizzoBrit] #718402
12/11/17 11:52 am
12/11/17 11:52 am
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,174
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Online content
BritBike Forum member
Hillbilly bike  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,174
Running from demons in WNY
Originally Posted by BrizzoBrit
I was amused by his comment about the brits using 'inferior' (flat) cam followers and not roller followers. I'd always thought these Merlins were pretty much state of the art.

Looking at some other RR Merlin articles they got some pretty prodigious improvements in power output during development.

This would bring a smile to my dad's face as he trained on on and rebuilt many of these during WW2.

Rich, if that's the 4 row engine, they are an impressive piece of engineering. I always wonder how the rearmost row of cylinders gets sufficient cooling.


Ray

The Merlins did use non roller rockers and they were a problem right to the end...What was state of the art was the superb dual stage supercharger and boost controls..The Allison had the roller rockers, better lower end and the pentroof combustion chambers like modern engines. But the Allison suffered from lack of development in the right direction due to constant unrealistic demands by the US military .British engine manufacturers were fee from gov't political interference...The Allison was a the engine that could have been the best but wasn't.......The Pratt and Whitney R2800 is arguably the best piston aircraft engine of WW2...


I take off bike parts until it doesn't function, then put on just enough so it functions
Re: Vintage V12 Stuff [Re: Hillbilly bike] #718477
12/12/17 12:16 am
12/12/17 12:16 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,124
Stone Creek OH USA
R
Rich B Offline

BritBike Forum member
Rich B  Offline

BritBike Forum member
R

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,124
Stone Creek OH USA
The R2800 is arguably the best aircraft piston engine period. beerchug And an engine that was conceived, developed, and funded entirely by Pratt & Whitney.

There is no doubt RR did a much better job than Allison developing the supercharger and induction system. Those 2 areas hampered the Allison. But the Allison did have a reputation for being reasonably tough engine.

Modern warbird owners’ prefer the Allison due to the less intensive maintenance versus the Merlin.


Never underestimate the human ability to elevate stupid to a whole new level!.
Re: Vintage V12 Stuff [Re: NickL] #718602
12/13/17 4:16 am
12/13/17 4:16 am
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,816
OZ
Triless Offline
BritBike Forum member
Triless  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,816
OZ
It would interesting to know why the allies didn't persue fuel injection development.To obviate, to some degree, the tendency for the carburetted Merlin to monemtarily to cut out in sharp turns, Miss Beatrice Shilling ( an engineer who raced her self tuned Norton at Brooklands pre war ) developed a device which fitted in to the carbs venturi. Out of her hearing, the other boffins referred to this as " Miss Shilling's orifice "!

Re: Vintage V12 Stuff [Re: Keane Lucas] #718636
12/13/17 3:00 pm
12/13/17 3:00 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,174
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Online content
BritBike Forum member
Hillbilly bike  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,174
Running from demons in WNY
The US did have individual cylinder fuel injection on the last of the B-29's to solve the Wright 3350 overheating problems.I.....As Nick mentions the US aircraft were assembled by housewives and farmers and needed to be simplified...The US philosophy on aircraft was first protection for the pilot..Rugged air frames ,fast straight speed, armor for the pilot and an array of fast firing 50 caliber machines to make up for poor pilot marksmanship..Best example is the P-47 Thunderbolt that could return the pilot home despite heavy airframe damage and actual engine cylinders shot away...The US Navy would have nothing to due with liquid cooled engines .
The US was the leader in turbocharging...The, B-17,B24 , B-29, P47 and P38 all had dual stage supercharging using the turbo supplying enough boost to maintain seal level pressure at high altitude and a mechanical blower to give the desired power...The turbo boost controls on the P38 were troublesome for the pilot to monitor and engines blew because of over boost detonation...It was solved in the L model late in the war...
Another factor was early in the war, the USA thought the UK and Russia would fall to the Nazis...So North America would stand alone on a two front war with Germany and Japan...The Manhattan project and the B-29 to deliver bombs to distant targets was the most important project. The B-29 actually cost more than the A bomb...
But as the war dragged on it favored the US with it's unmatched production untouched by enemy bombs...
The P&W R2800 and the Allison both used less fuel per HP than the Merlin...But the Merlin 60 in the Spitfire and P51 gave outstanding altitude performance...And the P51 low drag wing and air frame more than made up for the fuel mileage...
As some pilots said, get you photo taken with the sleek P51 for the folks back home....But in the heat of combat many preferred the far more rugged P47 with it's unmatched escape speed..


I take off bike parts until it doesn't function, then put on just enough so it functions
Re: Vintage V12 Stuff [Re: Keane Lucas] #718671
12/13/17 10:21 pm
12/13/17 10:21 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 819
Overland Missouri
O
old mule Offline
BritBike Forum member
old mule  Offline
BritBike Forum member
O

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 819
Overland Missouri
As far as the inverted V12 Junkers engine, I read that the mechanical fuel injection parts required machining to a new very high standard, invention of super-precision grinding machinery, etc. and that the little pistons were the most precise machined steel objects ever made. Imagine their cost.
I would like to read more about those Jumos- I used to collect pre- 1950 aircraft books but dispersed my large collection in 2000.

Re: Vintage V12 Stuff [Re: Keane Lucas] #718695
12/13/17 11:52 pm
12/13/17 11:52 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,174
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Online content
BritBike Forum member
Hillbilly bike  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,174
Running from demons in WNY
The British liked complicated piston engines and built some really impressive feats of engineering using sleeve valves or Napier designs....

Front of Bristol sleeve valve radial...

gears


I take off bike parts until it doesn't function, then put on just enough so it functions
Re: Vintage V12 Stuff [Re: NickL] #718794
12/14/17 8:39 pm
12/14/17 8:39 pm
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 294
Norfolk England
D
DBDBrian Offline
BritBike Forum member
DBDBrian  Offline
BritBike Forum member
D

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 294
Norfolk England
Multi cylinder aircraft engines are of great interest to me, having worked on quite large V12 Diesels, I find the ingenuity and workmanship with these things to be truly something else.
I thought this might be of interest as Napier's have been mentioned, It was built by a friend who unfortunately went to the big machine shop in the sky earlier this year, before he was able to totally finish this amazing model, of an H section 24 cylinder Dagger. He produced it on hand operated machine tools, (not CNC) from alloy billets, no castings were used.
RIP Norman Lawrence, a true engineer.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Napier Dagger


Brian

Made In England
Re: Vintage V12 Stuff [Re: Keane Lucas] #718804
12/14/17 11:41 pm
12/14/17 11:41 pm
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,024
.
Les P Offline

BritBike Forum member
Les P  Offline

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,024
.
A link to some information on that engine.

http://modelengineeringwebsite.com/Napier_aero_engine.html

Truly amazing looking at some of the components, done on manual machine tooling is almost hard to believe.


More bikes and projects than you can shake a stick at but they should be done in two shakes of a lamb's tail.
Re: Vintage V12 Stuff [Re: Keane Lucas] #719543
12/20/17 10:47 pm
12/20/17 10:47 pm
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 383
New Jersey
Keane Lucas Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Keane Lucas  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 383
New Jersey
Thanks LesP for part 2.
Here's Part 3
The Napier Dagger model is amazing.
An E.J. Potter connection @ 11:00


1969 BSA A65T w/A70 engine
1970 Royal Enfield Interceptor S ll

Moderated by  Alan_nc, Graham Ham 


Home | Sponsors | Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons | "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2