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Re: 8 SLS performance [Re: Hillbilly bike] #719018
12/16/17 5:38 pm
12/16/17 5:38 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,523
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Online content

fefsa
kevin roberts  Online Content

fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,523
ohio, usa
Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
. . . But considering the performance of a classic Brit Bike, the 68-70 front brake is a great piece when set up correctly...

[Linked Image]


i remember that machine. routt kit. very nice looking bike. seems to me that the axle being clamped in the fork slider would make that attachment to the backing plate about as rigid as it could be. there would certainly be a rotating force under braking, but if the slider could rotate enough to upset things, you'd already have a broken front axle to deal with . . .

i've got no experience with the 68-70 TLS brake. my stuff is either older or newer. but i'm putting one together now on the track machine, so all this is very interesting to me.


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Re: 8 SLS performance [Re: koan58] #719020
12/16/17 5:51 pm
12/16/17 5:51 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,258
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Online content
BritBike Forum member
Hillbilly bike  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,258
Running from demons in WNY
Originally Posted by koan58
HB - that's a nice looking adaptation.
There will always be doomsayers for anything one tries.
Of course under heavy braking, the forks will be compressed, so there will be a lot of slider/stanchion overlap = rigidity, especially with the massively stronger legs.
So what remains is the rotating force on the slider from the braking force, which is countered by the strength of the wheel spindle. Is the spindle still the showa original diameter?
The other main difference is the extra 1" say between the torque lug and fork leg, which will increase the rotating force on the slider by maybe 100%.
The slider spindle clamp and spindle itself, take this extra load, tending to pull that end of the spindle backwards, and the slider clockwise (looking from above).
The only force to be shared with the left slider passes via the spindle,pushing the bottom of the left slider forwards as best it can. This is where the "twist" (in the front wheel direction) can come from.
That bent bracket forming the torque stay is a little dubious, ok it will probably survive, but it does rely on a lot of bends and lengths for a "mission critical" component.
I see you have disc sliders both sides, maybe swap them so the brackets are much closer to the wheel, a simple more direct torque stop from the caliper mount, which will move the cable stop backwards out of conflict?
Only chucking ideas at ya mate! Dave


I suppose it could be done other ways that might be better...or worse..But I make things out of what I have and using the tools at hand....The bent L bracket is two thicknesses of 1/4 inch steel I hand forged into shape...The last 90 degree bend is against the slider so it's not moving on braking forces.....At any rate, the bracket has lasted thousands of miles and three years ...


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
Re: 8 SLS performance [Re: TrophyTR6] #719025
12/16/17 7:05 pm
12/16/17 7:05 pm
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 291
Isle of Wight, UK
K
koan58 Offline
BritBike Forum member
koan58  Offline
BritBike Forum member
K
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 291
Isle of Wight, UK
Quite so HB, just to discuss the finer points is always to our benefit. My heap is far from perfect!
It was merely engineering thoughts, I presumed welcome as you posted the pic.
The bracket will probably outlive us, given the power of the brake. It is just less than sound as a design. If it fails, I wouldn't like to think of the consequences.
As it bends under force, it moves to releasing the brake stop. If it had to be that design at all, it should be from the other side of the fork leg, which then makes it fail-safe.
Is it not possible to swap the sliders so you can have a more direct torque stop? Dave

Re: 8 SLS performance [Re: koan58] #719043
12/16/17 9:42 pm
12/16/17 9:42 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,258
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Online content
BritBike Forum member
Hillbilly bike  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,258
Running from demons in WNY
Originally Posted by koan58
Quite so HB, just to discuss the finer points is always to our benefit. My heap is far from perfect!
It was merely engineering thoughts, I presumed welcome as you posted the pic.
The bracket will probably outlive us, given the power of the brake. It is just less than sound as a design. If it fails, I wouldn't like to think of the consequences.
As it bends under force, it moves to releasing the brake stop. If it had to be that design at all, it should be from the other side of the fork leg, which then makes it fail-safe.
Is it not possible to swap the sliders so you can have a more direct torque stop? Dave


I never plan anything , just do it and make adjustments as I go.....You can swap the legs around but the inner fender mount pads will face the outside.......So I had to modify the Suzuki axle to fit the Triumph wheel and use spacers to locate the wheel as on Japanese and European bikes..Then I looked at the brake anchor..The steel bracket you see was the what I could do with the material at hand.... You can endlessly fuss with a bracket but there's no guarantee it'll be any better other than look fancier....


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
Re: 8 SLS performance [Re: TrophyTR6] #719154
12/17/17 9:11 pm
12/17/17 9:11 pm
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 291
Isle of Wight, UK
K
koan58 Offline
BritBike Forum member
koan58  Offline
BritBike Forum member
K
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 291
Isle of Wight, UK
HB - don't get me wrong, you do some interesting and imaginative things! And I agree that the stop is a good solution in the real world with real resources.
I'm especially impressed that you took the trouble to forge the bracket, which I imagine results in a stronger piece, and I hadn't considered the mudguard mounts. I would not have that skill at my disposal, maybe why I come from a different angle. Are you one of these fellows we see on "Forged in fire" over here, making swords and stuff?

I'm one of these guys (retentive some say) fascinated by technical detail, so I hope you'll bear with me on some questions and thoughts regarding your adaptation of the early TLS brake to the much more modern disc forks.

Usually a brit brake backplate is solidly clamped to the right slider by the spindle nut, the left slider then usually has a clamp mechanism, to allow the forks to find their own parallel comfort zone before clamping the slider to the spindle.

The clamping of backplate to slider is important for rigidity of the assembly. This is usually done through a broad flange or spacer.

Your assembly has the clamp on the right, so how does that allow both the clamping of the backplate and the freedom to set the parallelism of the forks?

I assume the forks were intended for a much wider hub, in which the bearings would be much closer to the forks, with equal braking both sides. Likely intended for a thicker spindle as well. Is the spindle reduced for the TLS hub bearings?

That the wheel bearings are ~1" inboard of where they should be on the spindle inevitably multiplies the forces on the spindle. I'm sure there is a good reason why hubs suit spacings between forks.

I'd be interested to know your motivation in fitting the showa forks. Was it the damping, the rgidity of the big legs, fit a wider tyre, or that more widely separated forks will somehow make it more solid? Dave

Re: 8 SLS performance [Re: koan58] #719184
12/18/17 2:03 am
12/18/17 2:03 am
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,258
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Online content
BritBike Forum member
Hillbilly bike  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,258
Running from demons in WNY
Originally Posted by koan58
.

I'd be interested to know your motivation in fitting the showa forks. Was it the damping, the rgidity of the big legs, fit a wider tyre, or that more widely separated forks will somehow make it more solid? Dave


I saw a stripped Triumph T120 leaning against a pile of junk car parts...It looked pathetic so I bought it...It had no front fork assembly and the price of the correct front end was a lot of money for worn out junk that needs new parts...I was looking on eBay at alternatives and picked a 90's Suzuki 750 sport bike fork assembly for $140 shipped to my door..I had to shortened the steering stem, fiddled around with bearings and made adapters to fit the Triumph....The Showa fork is way more rigid than any Triumph fork. The yokes are sturdier with more clamping area on the tubes..It has less friction so it responds better to road surface...The Showa has less yoke offset than a Triumph yoke but since the front end is more rigid .the steering feels slightly faster and more "planted"...This swap isn't for everyone and stock Triumph front end in good shape does do the job pretty well...I used a similar Suzuki front end on the dual Triumph engine lSR bike....And I just used a 96 Honda Interceptor front end on a 81 Honda 750...Swapping front ends, making axles ,spacers and so on is an interesting challenge and not difficult with a lathe and proper hand tools..


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
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