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A10 caqm timming spec's #718071
12/07/17 7:54 pm
12/07/17 7:54 pm
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 15
F
flattop Offline OP
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Posts: 15
Hi All
I have unfortunately miss timed my camshafts. The dot s and lines do not seem to fall in place where it will start and run.
Beings I did this twenty years back , I've bought it back from my brother in law.
Time to get back at it.
I need a specification or procedure for resetting them.
Of course he fiddled with the mag , I think i can retime that .
thanks Tony

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Re: A10 caqm timming spec's [Re: flattop] #718126
12/08/17 2:29 pm
12/08/17 2:29 pm
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 387
Upstate NY
R
Red Lapierre Offline
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Posts: 387
Upstate NY
Flattop
PM me or post an e-mail I will send you a copy of the instructions from BSA manual.
Red


57 A10 GF
61 A7
61 A10 GF
63 A10 SR
76 CB 125 Honda
76 FLH
2012 FLHTP
Re: A10 caqm timming spec's [Re: Red Lapierre] #718288
12/10/17 4:22 am
12/10/17 4:22 am
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 15
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flattop Offline OP
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Posts: 15
Thanks Red
pm sent

Re: A10 caqm timming spec's [Re: flattop] #718323
12/10/17 1:47 pm
12/10/17 1:47 pm
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 387
Upstate NY
R
Red Lapierre Offline
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Red Lapierre  Offline
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R

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 387
Upstate NY
e-mail sent.


57 A10 GF
61 A7
61 A10 GF
63 A10 SR
76 CB 125 Honda
76 FLH
2012 FLHTP
Re: A10 caqm timming spec's [Re: flattop] #718441
12/11/17 7:41 pm
12/11/17 7:41 pm
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 387
Upstate NY
R
Red Lapierre Offline
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Red Lapierre  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 387
Upstate NY
Sent more pics and instruction.


57 A10 GF
61 A7
61 A10 GF
63 A10 SR
76 CB 125 Honda
76 FLH
2012 FLHTP
Re: A10 caqm timming spec's [Re: flattop] #718492
12/12/17 4:04 am
12/12/17 4:04 am
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 15
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flattop Offline OP
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Thanks to Red I just realized I been thinking Triumph twin cam.
So only one cam to time in.
I do not think it has stock cam and the fellow who built it up originally has passed.
Would there be a intake opening or center line number to hit.
Such as 18* before tdc @ .050.
I need to recheck it all , surley must be off a tooth.....or more possibly the key .
Thanks again

Re: A10 caqm timming spec's [Re: flattop] #718746
12/14/17 2:00 pm
12/14/17 2:00 pm
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 387
Upstate NY
R
Red Lapierre Offline
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Red Lapierre  Offline
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R

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 387
Upstate NY
BSA service sheet #216 A group (swinging arm frame)

Valve Timing-inlet (deg) A10
opens before TDC 30 deg
Closes after BDC 70 deg

A10 RR or SR
opens before TDC 42 deg
Closes after BDC 62 deg



Valve Timing-exhaust (deg) A10
opens before BDC 65 deg
Closes after TDC 25 deg


A10 RR or SR
opens before BDC 67 deg
Closes after TDC 37 deg





Note: after engine numbers CA7_5232 and DA10_1647 the valve timing for A7 and A10 is the same as the SS and Rocket machines. Tappet clearances for quiet running should be .008 in. inlet .010 in. exhaust, but for maximum power .010 in. inlet and .016 in. exhaust

Hope this helps
Red


Last edited by Red Lapierre; 12/14/17 2:09 pm.

57 A10 GF
61 A7
61 A10 GF
63 A10 SR
76 CB 125 Honda
76 FLH
2012 FLHTP
Re: A10 caqm timming spec's [Re: flattop] #718838
12/15/17 2:13 pm
12/15/17 2:13 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,997
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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Allan Gill  Offline

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Posts: 4,997
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Red, i'll have to check those timing figures but they look more like the ones used on the plunger models (or circa 55/56 A10) the notation about .010 inlet and 0.016 is also not correct, those were standard valve lash figures for the early cam, the "maximum power" figures were rated at 0.010in and 0.012ex

In the UK though both Flash models and SR models were fitted with the late touring cam, (same specs as on the A65) the RGS and the export SR were given the spitfire/sports cam.

spitfire/sports cam:

Inlet:
Opens 51 BTDC
Closes 68 ABDC

Exhaust:
Opens 78 BBDC
Closes 37 ATDC

Touring cam:

Inlet:
Opens 40 BTDC
Closes 60 ABDC

Exhaust:
Opens 65 BBDC
Closes 35 ATDC

Of course a lot of this depends on what year the bike is?


beerchug
Re: A10 caqm timming spec's [Re: flattop] #718862
12/15/17 3:59 pm
12/15/17 3:59 pm
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 387
Upstate NY
R
Red Lapierre Offline
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Red Lapierre  Offline
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Posts: 387
Upstate NY
Allan you might be correct? But on the page it has A Group(swinging arm frame) Useful Data
The info I posted was from a BSA service manual I have that page was revised in 1963 and reprinted in 1965 the note on valves was on bottom of that page No. 216
I don't know if there is a different from UK to US models the book don't say which one it would be for.
Red


57 A10 GF
61 A7
61 A10 GF
63 A10 SR
76 CB 125 Honda
76 FLH
2012 FLHTP
Re: A10 caqm timming spec's [Re: flattop] #718930
12/15/17 10:22 pm
12/15/17 10:22 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,997
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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Allan Gill  Offline

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Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Interesting, I have kims CD somewhere so I will double confirm. It was help if the poster gave us a bike year.


beerchug
Re: A10 caqm timming spec's [Re: flattop] #718933
12/15/17 10:38 pm
12/15/17 10:38 pm
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,264
Bolton Lancs UK
A
Andy Higham Offline
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Posts: 1,264
Bolton Lancs UK
Don't rely on the timing marks that BSA stamped on the gears.
The A10 I used to have first with a 356 cam then later with a 357 I ended up making stepped a stepped key to get the cam timing to spec.
If I was doing it again I would machine the centre out of the cam gear and make a new hub. The hub would have a ring of holes that corresponded to a ring of holes in the gear but one less, depending on which holes were aligned with a peg would give a fine (vernier) adjustment of the timing.

The biggest fukc up in the A10 cam arrangement is the followers, the hardening is too soft and too thin. I had a set stellite welded and ground, many thousands of (hard thrashed) miles later the cam and followers were still as new


BSA B31 500cc "Stargazer"
Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360 Challenger
Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500cc "Llareggub"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 OK Supreme
'36 OK Supreme
Re: A10 caqm timming spec's [Re: flattop] #718935
12/15/17 10:45 pm
12/15/17 10:45 pm
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 477
Cork Ireland
C
chaterlea25 Offline
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Posts: 477
Cork Ireland
Hi All,
If parts (cam wheel or idler ?) are mixed from the plunger engine to S/A the timing marks will not "work"
Search for threads on this on the A10 forum

John

Re: A10 caqm timming spec's [Re: flattop] #718940
12/15/17 11:45 pm
12/15/17 11:45 pm
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,264
Bolton Lancs UK
A
Andy Higham Offline
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Andy Higham  Offline
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A

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,264
Bolton Lancs UK
If you are happy with near enough or it's only 5 degrees out use the marks. If you want it right be prepared to put the work in. you will need a DTI, degree disc, keys and files. BUT who says BSA's figures are right? advancing the cam slightly will make a bit more power at low RPM at the expense of top end power, retarding the cam will have the opposite effect


BSA B31 500cc "Stargazer"
Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360 Challenger
Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500cc "Llareggub"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 OK Supreme
'36 OK Supreme
Re: A10 caqm timming spec's [Re: flattop] #718944
12/16/17 12:03 am
12/16/17 12:03 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,893
Elko, Nevada USA
dave - NV Offline

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dave - NV  Offline

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Posts: 1,893
Elko, Nevada USA
As Andy has mentioned - Do it Right! Be sure to use a 'bump stop' to determine an accurate TDC. Lucky for us Gold Star Guys, vernier cams are available from Phil Pearson in England that allows you to set an accurate cam timing in 1 degree increments. I've played around retarding and advancing cam timing with no improved results over BSAs factory timing of 42 and 46 cams accurately set to factory specs. Always bear in mind the importance of the accuracy of the placement crank gear keyway.


Dave - NV
Re: A10 caqm timming spec's [Re: dave - NV] #719179
12/18/17 12:29 am
12/18/17 12:29 am
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 15
F
flattop Offline OP
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Posts: 15
Thanks Everyone I feel I have the info I need.
It is a 1960 A10.
I have all the needed equipment.
At this point if I get it close enough to run I will be overjoyed .
as I stated it was perfect before I muddled it up.
would start with hand on the kick lever.
Seriously 25 years back minimum.

Re: A10 caqm timming spec's [Re: flattop] #719209
12/18/17 10:42 am
12/18/17 10:42 am
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,997
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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Allan Gill  Offline

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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,997
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Not sure what the tooth count is on the A10’s but on the A65 each tooth is equal to 16.5 degrees of crank movement, I believe the crank pinion is 22t same as the A65 (so I would think the other gears will be 44t) if you failed at least one lobe and found that it was more than16.5 degrees, you could move the crank pinion one tooth either way (which ever way gets you closer) and the engine will run fine if it is 5 degrees out.

Hope that makes sense


beerchug
Re: A10 caqm timming spec's [Re: flattop] #719299
12/18/17 9:25 pm
12/18/17 9:25 pm
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 15
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flattop Offline OP
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Posts: 15
Allen
That does make sense.
Funny I was just thinking I needed to count the teeth the do the division.
Best to do the degree wheel at this point.
I also have a spreadsheet that give degrees rotation to piston movement.
would need the head off though to be accurate..
just gauging it visually it looks off a considerable amount as the valves appear to be opening and closing at entirely the wrong times.
another funny thing I opened the manual to check stroke and the spec were right there.
Thanks for all the help.

Re: A10 caqm timming spec's [Re: flattop] #719315
12/18/17 11:56 pm
12/18/17 11:56 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,997
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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Allan Gill  Offline

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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,997
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
No worries, good luck and ask all you need to.


beerchug

Moderated by  Allan Gill, Jon W. Whitley 


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