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#689781 - 03/28/17 11:48 pm KSS donk into swing arm frame project  
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 192
Joolstacho Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joolstacho  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 192
Australia
Over many years I gathered most of the parts to build a KSS/RS.
The engine is a mk2 KSS, and has been polished extensively inside -crank and rod. All very sparkly!
The piston look rather lumpy for a KSS, (it's standard size, new) I haven't assembled the top yet but when I do I'll measure compression ratio. (Could it be a KTT piston?)
The barrel is Alfin with standard unused bore. Much bigger finning than a KSS.

Note the frame / engine plates. The lower mount hole doesn't align with the frame lugs, so one or other will have to be moved.
I'll need to make up dummy front engine mount plates (I have a VM pattern) to see which is the best way to go.
Gearbox is late KSS / MSS, Rear plates I'm not sure what model they're off, could be MAF.
Those frame lugs are pinned and brazed, I think they might be difficult to shift... how difficult I don't know.
Has anyone done this? I might have to plough through my 260 Fishtails to do some homework!
-Jools

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Just in case people might not know the background to this KSS/RS project.
The much loved OHC KSS engine was never fitted into the swing-arm frame by the factory. It was too expensive to produce, having vertical shaft bevel-drive OHC, so production of the KSS OHC engine finished in 1948, the final version of the KSS was in the rigid rear, with Dowty (air) forks.
The best bike Velocette never made! Perhaps Ivan Rhodes' was the first one I saw, in 'Always in the picture'
So it has been a project popular with the Velo 'cognoscenti' I think people see it as a genuine Velocette, just one that the factory didn't actually do.

Last edited by Joolstacho; 04/15/17 1:18 am. Reason: fact-fix!
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#689782 - 03/29/17 12:22 am Re: KSS donk into swing arm frame project [Re: Joolstacho]  
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,324
Triless Online content
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Triless  Online Content
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,324
OZ
Really interesting stuff. Now, this will pique interest in the Velo forum for sure, I reckon ! Good one, J.

#693395 - 04/29/17 11:37 am Re: KSS donk into swing arm frame project [Re: Joolstacho]  
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 4
Lost in Garage Offline
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Lost in Garage  Offline

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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 4
Australia
Hi Joolstacho, Writing with much trepidation as I have virtually no understanding of motorbike technicals, let alone Velos (Joolstacho rightly rolls his eyes!) I am however a lifelong Velo enthusiast who recently decided that saving for retirement is simply over-rated and went out and bought me a Velo …… KSS MkII engine in a swinging arm frame (unsure of actual frame or gearbox model). And it’s LAMS approved! ;-)

Either way it’s a complete running bike, and has been since long before I got it, so it may able to help you!

Firstly I can see no sign of any mods to frame lugs - they look pristine. I had photos but apparently I need them on a server to attach them. If I can pm you they're yours.
Looking closely I’ve noted both front engine mounts and rear engine/gearbox mounts appear of same age and both look to be different (finish-wise) to the rest of the bike… as if both are later additions/mods made as a pair.
Another photo showed the vertical shaft sitting at about 4 degrees forward of vertical … apparently this forward lean on the engine is common to all OHC engines in swinging arm frames.

I hope this has somehow helped! And if I say something above that’s wrong, please correct.

The learning curve is very, very steep.

#693435 - 04/29/17 11:04 pm Re: KSS donk into swing arm frame project [Re: Joolstacho]  
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 192
Joolstacho Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joolstacho  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 192
Australia
That's very helpful mate, I'm still dealing with engine/gearbox plates at the moment. My idea now is to locate everything from the lower frame lug mount and lower rear crankcase hole, and adapt the plates to suit.
Q: Do your rear plates completely encircle the gearbox or are they like the later VM VR type which are a 'C' shape, and are open at the rear?
Is your gearbox the earlier type, or later type? (Don't be so modest, we all have something to contribute!
Cheers.

#693468 - 04/30/17 9:02 am Re: KSS donk into swing arm frame project [Re: Joolstacho]  
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 4
Lost in Garage Offline
BritBike Forum member
Lost in Garage  Offline

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 4
Australia
My rear plates encircle the whole gearbox, they look similar to those in your pics. Gearbox is embossed KR16 which i understand is either KSS or MSS. Cheers!

#694492 - 05/09/17 12:46 am Re: KSS donk into swing arm frame project [Re: Joolstacho]  
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 192
Joolstacho Offline
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Joolstacho  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 192
Australia
After a false start with a custom-made set of plates, and a bit of agonising I've resolved the mountings as follows.

I reverted to the plates shown, and I 'anchored' everything from the lower frame mount lug using that as the starting-point. This means that no cutting/welding/moving of that frame lug needed. Good.
The gearbox plates align with the crankcases and the frame lug without alteration. I've made new front engine mounts to fit. Easy. Note the gearbox plates, see circled bolt-holes, the top rear -a new hole drilled, up and back from original hole. Fine.

The lower hole comes too close to the rear edge of the plate, so I've left the hole small for now, and I'll weld on a strip of 1/4" steel to this edge and then drill the bolt hole to size.
I've checked with barrel and head on and it all fits under the frame top tube with about 1/2" to spare. So it should work.

[Linked Image]

#700999 - 07/07/17 12:53 am Re: KSS donk into swing arm frame project [Re: Joolstacho]  
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 192
Joolstacho Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joolstacho  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 192
Australia
Has anyone seen an RS frame that has a steering head lug like this?
Note that it has no steering stop protruberence coming down (where also the steering damper is anchored).
Mine just has a hole drilled in the little web as can be seen. It's a '53-'54 MAC frame - has no sidecar 'ring' lug on the downtube.

[Linked Image]

#717915 - 12/06/17 2:26 pm Re: KSS donk into swing arm frame project [Re: Joolstacho]  
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 609
RGSROB Offline
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RGSROB  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 609
Ontario , Canada
Hi Jools, moving the footrest lugs is definitely the way to go. They are pinned and brazed but with heat and perseverance they will move.
We found they had to be moved to be able to install a generator in the normal position

#717969 - 12/06/17 10:25 pm Re: KSS donk into swing arm frame project [Re: Joolstacho]  
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 192
Joolstacho Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joolstacho  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 192
Australia
The consensus of opinion around here was that the heating (and bashing!) involved in moving the lugs could compromise the strength of the frame tubing.
So I went the other route as per the above pic, involving making new front mounts and slightly altering the rear plates rear mount holes.
It all fits fine and the dynamo will just squeeze in there.



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